Transpennine Industrial Relations

[Starmill]

Why haven't others followed?

Probably because it costs more now and there are no other tangible benefits. Except for the small number of services where the second person was removed, but they keep quiet about those.

 

[the sniper]

I'm sure I recall many on here saying that the new OBS role on Southern would only last 6-12 months.

I don't recall it being many that said that, though I wouldn't have given such comments as much attention as yourself.

Why do you feel that the OBS is now more vulnerable?

Well, there was this thing called Covid... People on here seem to think it might have had an impact on the railway and its future.

 

[43066]

And whilst Conductors went through incredibly messy industrial action and poor relations back in 2016-2018, OBSs are still around in force despite many (including people on these forums) expecting them to be slowly abandoned. It's been done before, so the DfT have a strong precedent to consider in future. Whether or not the whole OBS dispute has saved money in the long-term though is debatable.

That was an excellent demonstration of the folly of politically motivated industrial disputes. Months of appalling acrimony, massive inconvenience for passengers, nothing significant gained in terms of savings. I seem to remember the cost to the wider economy was calculated at the time to run into the hundreds of millions.

Whatever our job roles, I’m sure most of us working in the industry hope we aren’t about to embark on an enormous round of similar. It would be an absolute blood bath and ultimately bad for the railway as a whole.

This time last year I'd have said fire and rehire was likely, although I suspect they've left it too long now as passengers are returning in good numbers.

Tend to agree. Perhaps suggesting there isn’t the appetite for all out war on those awful overpaid railway staff some on here are hoping for.

The perplexing thing is that, although I don't at all disagree with what you say, there's actually no evidence anywhere in public of the latter yet. We've seen the service cuts coming and indeed already implemented in some cases probably, but been on this road (metaphorically) for nearly two years and no evidence of the latter.

The disappointment is palpable!

 

[DoubleO]

Tend to agree. Perhaps suggesting there isn’t the appetite for all out war on those awful overpaid railway staff some on here are hoping for.

Unfortunately I don't think the fact that people are using trains means they are in full support of railway staff......I personally think that if/when the government started making some of the details public (which I'm sure they would in the case of a disupte) there's a good chance that public support would be lost quite quickly.

 

[Bald Rick]

This time last year I'd have said fire and rehire was likely, although I suspect they've left it too long now as passengers are returning in good numbers.

I think fire and rehire is unlikely, but passenger numbers are lower now than they have been since last June.

 

[43066]

Unfortunately I don't think the fact that people are using trains means they are in full support of railway staff......I personally think that if/when the government started making some of the details public (which I'm sure they would in the case of a disupte) there's a good chance that public support would be lost quite quickly.

I meant more that the time for an aggressive “fire and rehire” type approach would haven been earlier on in the pandemic when hardly anyone was travelling, rather than that the people using the trains are necessarily supportive of railway staff. The British public are generally not supportive of unions in most industries.

I think fire and rehire is unlikely, but passenger numbers are lower now than they have been since last June.

Hopefully we will see a steady increase over the next few months now that the work from home “advice” from government seems to be gone for good.

 

[Horizon22]

I think fire and rehire is unlikely, but passenger numbers are lower now than they have been since last June.

I’m not surprised it’s still suppressed - it’s still winter, working from home has only just been lifted (I know several not going back until February) and we’ll have to see how many people still want to take domestic holidays this year.

Last year it was also very gradual and by my reckoning was going up slowly but surely until about November.

 

[Bald Rick]

Last year it was also very gradual and by my reckoning was going up slowly but surely until about November.

peak was reached by end of Sept and stayed there till end Nov before declining. Both in absolutely numbers and in reference to 2019.

 

[Meerkat]

I meant more that the time for an aggressive “fire and rehire” type approach would haven been earlier on in the pandemic when hardly anyone was travelling, rather than that the people using the trains are necessarily supportive of railway staff.

Fire and rehire of key workers during the pandemic would have been terrible PR.
After revenue has settled and the Treasury know how much extra support looks long term - then the PR looks much better to say they are trying to cut the cost to the taxpayer but the unions are 'stuck in the past', 'greedy' etc etc.

 

[43096]

Fire and rehire of key workers during the pandemic would have been terrible PR.

There would have been very little PR - the news was wall-to-wall virus at the time and nothing much would have interrupted that. Certainly not changing T&Cs for some already well paid people who had avoided furlough.

In many ways the DfT missed a trick. The lockdowns would have been the ideal time to have such a dispute: few people travelling and therefore minimal impact of strikes.

 

[seagull]

Certainly not changing T&Cs for some already well paid people who had avoided furlough.

Nice.

I suppose it wouldn't occur to you that many avoided furlough because they were still actually going to work. You know, railway staff being key workers and all that.

 

[43096]

Nice.

I suppose it wouldn't occur to you that many avoided furlough because they were still actually going to work. You know, railway staff being key workers and all that.

Bingo! Didn't have long to wait til someone pulled the "key worker" card, did we? Key workers. Do me a favour.

 

[43066]

Nice.

I suppose it wouldn't occur to you that many avoided furlough because they were still actually going to work. You know, railway staff being key workers and all that.

Indeed.

I honestly don’t understand the mentality of people who go through life wishing to see others made worse off, to no benefit to themselves. I suppose they’re to be pitied really. It’s generally not an attitude of people who are contented and happy in their own lives.

 

[Carlisle]

I honestly don’t understand the mentality of people who go through life wishing to see others made worse off,

They don’t, the overwhelming majority just want rail managed in the best way possible going forward . Catastrophizing any scenario where unions don’t get everything their own way isn’t helping unless that’s all your actually bothered about.

 

[the sniper]

Certainly not changing T&Cs for some already well paid people who had avoided furlough.

'Avoided furlough'? I think many would have loved to have been furloughed!

Funny way to say, people who were required to attend work throughout.

 

[Robertj21a]

They don’t, the overwhelming majority just want rail managed in the best way possible going forward . Catastrophizing any scenario where unions don’t get everything their own way isn’t helping, unless that’s all your actually bothered about.

Very true, most of the general travelling public just want a safe and reliable service, at a fair price.
I would guess that one major issue looming will be the reluctance of the Treasury to fund things that they used to - trains, buses, benefits etc etc.
Could be some hard times about to hit hard.

 

[seagull]

Bingo! Didn't have long to wait til someone pulled the "key worker" card, did we? Key workers. Do me a favour.

Would you like any salt and vinegar with those chips on your shoulder?

Key Workers included this definition:

"Transport Workers. This includes those who will keep the air, water, road and rail passenger and freight transport modes operating during the Covid-19 response, including those working on transport systems through which supply chains pass."

So, not pulling a card but presenting a fact. Your dislike of railway employees doesn't make it untrue.

 

[43066]

The vast majority don’t, they’ll just want rail managed in the best way possible going forward .

Some clearly do and it’s very obvious who they are. Two on this thread in particular (you’re not one of them).

Catastrophizing any scenario where unions don’t get everything their own way isn’t helping, unless that’s all your actually bothered about.

Nobody has done that. There are certain posters who aren’t interested in sensible discussion, have entrenched positions and stick the boot in to staff and unions at any opportunity. On this thread people are openly lamenting the fact they the DfT haven’t used Covid to diminish staff Ts and Cs. What a lovely attitude - which sums up why many railstaff no longer contribute to the forum.

As someone who is happy with my own lot in life I don’t personally feel the need to go onto forums and denigrate Ts and Cs of staff in an industry I don’t even work in.

 

[Carlisle]

Some clearly do and it’s very obvious who they are. Two on this thread in particular (you’re not one of them).

Ok thanks, don’t wish redundancies or the like on anyone, been there & it’s definitely not pleasant

 

[dk1]

There are certain posters who aren’t interested in sensible discussion, have entrenched positions and stick the boot in to staff and unions at any opportunity. On this thread people are openly lamenting the fact they the DfT haven’t used Covid to diminish staff Ts and Cs. What a lovely attitude - which sums up why many railstaff no longer contribute to the forum.

But looking at things from another angle, these posters certainly keep many of us entertained regardless of their rather bitter opinion.

 

[Starmill]

Ok thanks, don’t wish redundancies or the like on anyone, been there & it’s definitely not pleasant

To be fair, I don't think anyone has at any point suggested this. Indeed many of us frequently bemoan the lamentable restrictions of a certain Mr Sunak on spending our own money on services (such as public transport) which are for the good of everyone. We could also raise the necccesary few billion through higher taxes on driving, but that seems politically even further out of reach than accepting the borrowing and just spending the money. However, we have the money we have. It isn't enough to run all of the services that we would like. How to spend it best is the real question.

 

[142blue]

Bingo! Didn't have long to wait til someone pulled the "key worker" card, did we? Key workers. Do me a favour.

Yes, key worker.

Still there day in, day out whilst others were "working" from the safety of their houses / gardens and zoom calls.

Sad the amount of bitterness from a tiny minority on here

 

[Carlisle]

Sad the amount of bitterness from a tiny minority on here

Differing views to your own are in the main just that, not bitterness.
A previous thread appeared to conclude the lockdown timetable was a combination of some genuinely essential services & some run primarily for stock rotation, route & traction retention etc in readiness for the easing of restrictions.

 

[Killingworth]

Letter received today by TPE Stakeholders. First disruption starts this coming Sunday.

09 February 2022
Dear Stakeholder,
Limited timetable for Sundays due to RMT industrial action
I hope you are well. In previous correspondence (21 January 2022), I outlined that the RMT union had announced its
train conductor members employed at TransPennine Express would take strike action on four consecutive Sundays:
13, 20 and 27 February and 06 March. There is also some associated withdrawal of co-operation in relation to
overtime and revenue collection from 14 February onwards.
The decision of RMT to take strike action puts at threat the ongoing work to restore TPE’s customer volumes which
are at only two-thirds of pre-COVID levels and whose recovery has been further impaired due to the Omicron
variant. At a time when the taxpayer is providing considerable levels of funding to support the railway, the damage
the RMT’s dispute will have on customer demand and industry revenue will be significant, particularly as demand for
weekend leisure travel is strong.
As a result of the RMT strike action, on Sunday 13 February we will only be able to operate a very limited, and
heavily reduced, service on the following routes:
• Manchester Piccadilly – York via Huddersfield and Leeds
• York – Scarborough
• Cleethorpes – Doncaster
• Doncaster/Sheffield – Manchester Piccadilly
• Edinburgh – Carlisle
We are unable to operate services on any other parts of our network, including to/from Manchester Airport and are
advising our customers not to travel on the affected Sundays. We hope we may be able to add other routes to this
level of service provision on subsequent Sundays, but that is not assured.
To help customers get where they need to be – and to demonstrate collaborative work amongst train operators –
ticket acceptance is in place with LNER, Northern, Avanti West Coast, Transport for Wales, CrossCountry and East
Midlands Railway (full details are on our website). Refunds will be available to customers who have booked tickets
and decide they no longer wish to travel on affected Sundays due to the strike action.
In the appendix to this letter, I have listed the core timetable we plan to operate on 13 February. This is our
anticipated timetable however, actual service delivery will be affected by the resources available on the day. To
keep you updated, my team will write to you in advance of each of the subsequent days of strike action with a
revised list outlining what services we expect to operate. We apologise to customers for the disruption they will
experience due to this strike. Please let me know if you have any queries.
Kind regards,
Matthew Golton,
Managing Director

Appendix: On Sundays, when the RMT is taking industrial action, we will seek to operate the following timetable.
For Sunday 13 February the services in red are unable to operate and will be cancelled in advance (exact train
running is subject to staffing availability each Sunday which is confirmed nearer the time; customers are advised not
to travel and, if they do, to check the status of their journey before they travel):
Cleethorpes – Doncaster:
• 10.26 Cleethorpes – Doncaster
• 11.45 Doncaster – Cleethorpes
• 12.26 Cleethorpes – Doncaster
• 13.43 Doncaster – Cleethorpes
• 14.26 Cleethorpes – Doncaster
• 15.43 Doncaster – Cleethorpes
• 16.26 Cleethorpes – Doncaster
• 17.45 Doncaster – Cleethorpes

Edinburgh – Carlisle:
• 10.13 Edinburgh – Carlisle
• 12.20 Carlisle – Edinburgh
• 14.12 Edinburgh – Carlisle
• 16.14 Carlisle – Edinburgh

Hull – Leeds:
• 10.09 Hull – Leeds
• 11.34 Leeds – Hull
• 14.09 Hull – Leeds
• 15.34 Leeds – Hull

Manchester Piccadilly – York via Huddersfield and Leeds:
• 09.30 Manchester Piccadilly – York
• 10.18 York - Manchester Piccadilly
• 11.30 Manchester Piccadilly – York
• 11.49 York - Manchester Piccadilly
• 12.17 York - Manchester Piccadilly
• 13.27 Manchester Piccadilly – York

• 13.49 York - Manchester Piccadilly
• 14.17 York – Leeds
• 14.30 Manchester Piccadilly – York
• 14.42 Leeds - Manchester Piccadilly
• 15.27 Manchester Piccadilly – York
• 15.49 York - Manchester Piccadilly
• 16.17 York - Manchester Piccadilly
• 16.30 Manchester Piccadilly – York
• 17.30 Manchester Piccadilly – York
• 17.51 York – Leeds
• 18.18 York - Manchester Piccadilly
• 18.19 Leeds - Manchester Piccadilly
• 19.30 Manchester Piccadilly – Leeds
• 20.44 Leeds - York

Edinburgh – Newcastle:
• 11.56 Newcastle – Edinburgh
• 14.25 Edinburgh – Newcastle

Doncaster/Sheffield – Manchester Piccadilly:
• 09.11 Sheffield - Manchester Piccadilly
• 10.14 Manchester Piccadilly – Doncaster
• 11.44 Doncaster - Manchester Piccadilly
• 14.11 Sheffield - Manchester Piccadilly
• 14.19 Manchester Piccadilly – Doncaster
• 15.43 Doncaster – Sheffield
• 16.19 Manchester Piccadilly – Sheffield
• 17.10 Sheffield – Doncaster
• 17.43 Doncaster – Sheffield
• 18.11 Sheffield - Manchester Piccadilly
• 19.19 Manchester Piccadilly – Sheffield

York – Scarborough:
• 11.00 York – Scarborough
• 12.32 Scarborough – York
• 13.00 York – Scarborough
• 14.32 Scarborough – York
• 15.00 York – Scarborough
• 16.00 York – Scarborough
• 16.32 Scarborough – York
• 17.32 Scarborough – York
- ends

 

[AY1975]

It would appear from the strike timetable PDFs linked from the TPE website that the service on Sunday 27th February is basically the same as in entry #474 above except that:

One of the Leeds-Hull trains is extended to/from Manchester in each direction.
The one Newcastle-Edinburgh train (which is shown in red and therefore didn't run on the 13th) is extended to/from Durham (plus an additional Newcastle-Durham train)
One Carlisle-Edinburgh train is extended to/from Preston in each direction.

Does anyone know if the trains shown in red above ran on the 20th? Looking at Real Time Trains it would appear that the 15.43 Doncaster Cleethorpes didn't run but the 10.31 Manchester Piccadilly-Hull, shown as running on the 27th (but not listed as running on the 13th) did.

 

[Fokx]

It would appear from the strike timetable PDFs linked from the TPE website that the service on Sunday 27th February is basically the same as in entry #474 above except that:

The biggest difference this week is that ‘core’ services between Manchester and Hull/York will run to/from Manchester Victoria due to engineering works near Guide Bridge

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 Feb 2022 ==

Further dates have been added to the RMT Conductor action and are as follows:

- 00.01 hours until 23.59 hours on Sunday 13th March 2022
- 00.01 hours until 23.59 hours on Sunday 20th March 2022
- 00.01 hours until 23.59 hours on Sunday 27th March 2022
- 00.01 hours until 23.59 hours on Sunday 3rd April 2022

Then the next four weeks will also include Saturdays meaning a limited service at weekends and is as follows:

- 00.01 hours on Saturday 16th April 2022 until 23.59 hours on Sunday 17th April 2022
- 00.01 hours on Saturday 30th April 2022 until 23.59 hours on Sunday 1st May 2022
- 00.01 hours on Saturday 4th June 2022 until 23.59 hours on Sunday 5th June 2022

 

[LittleAH]

A mistake targeting Bank Holiday weekends.

 

[HullRailMan]

Everyone faces a cost of living crisis st the moment, and train crew aren’t exactly on poverty wages. Really beggars belief that the unions would even think they are likely to get a sympathetic ear from either the public or government at the moment. Putting off passengers and undermining revenue at a time when their industry desperately needs to get bums back on seats is also going to do little for their members job prospects in the long run. A shrinking railway isn’t in their interests, but they seem to be on a course to achieve that.

 

[Kite159]

Everyone faces a cost of living crisis st the moment, and train crew aren’t exactly on poverty wages. Really beggars belief that the unions would even think they are likely to get a sympathetic ear from either the public or government at the moment. Putting off passengers and undermining revenue at a time when their industry desperately needs to get bums back on seats is also going to do little for their members job prospects in the long run. A shrinking railway isn’t in their interests, but they seem to be on a course to achieve that.

And it will get to a point when some leisure passengers start heading away due to the cost of living crisis, as one easy way to reduce outgoings is to cut back on the non essential day trips/holidays to help pay for the electric bill

 

[irish_rail]

Everyone faces a cost of living crisis st the moment, and train crew aren’t exactly on poverty wages. Really beggars belief that the unions would even think they are likely to get a sympathetic ear from either the public or government at the moment. Putting off passengers and undermining revenue at a time when their industry desperately needs to get bums back on seats is also going to do little for their members job prospects in the long run. A shrinking railway isn’t in their interests, but they seem to be on a course to achieve that.

And how many have had no payrise in 3 years now? That's a huge cut when you look at the rise in inflation. Maybe ok if you are mortgage free and live alone, but for many traincrew the struggle is real. There aren't too many industries where there has been no payrise in the last 3 years. And yes, we had to go out in the blackest parts of the pandemic when many where safely tucked òut of harms way at home, and risk getting infected or bringing the virus home to our families (one driver in the southwest sticks in my mind here - he picked up covid at work, gave it to his wife, who died of it!). So a little gratitude in a modest wage increase after a challenging few years would be nice thanks.