New class 309 video on You Tube.

[AM9]

I love this sort of stuff. Not for the trains (which don’t interest me), but seeing the state of the infrastructure and how it was operated. Thank you for posting, @AM9

Looking back at your comment, I was reminded of something that just isn't around now. Much of the GEML still had jointed track in the '70s, and when the 309s were running in the 90mph plus sections, the clatter of the track joints certainly made the speed feel even faster. Sections I do remember was leaving Shenfield from P3, the CWR started just after the 6.25/25Kv changeover at Mountnessing. Then there was the stretch from Marks Tey station to the A12 Halstead Road junction, about two miles long. Here the trains would pass through the station, hit the Sudbury Line junction and the pointwork leading to the aggregate sidings. Then the jointed track would start, probably some of the fasted clickety clacks that I've ever travelled over.
Another interesting fact was that the 309s had an experimental wheel profile that reduced/eliminated hunting at speed. I imagine that it was later adopted elsewhere on the higher speed trains at the time.

 

[ge-gn]

That's basically it essentially. From memory there was one loco-hauled Mk1 Griddle Car (based in Scotland and often used on the Glasgow-Aberdeen route into the 1970s) and also the 124 TransPennine DMUs had a Griddle in their buffet car - advertising publicity of the time strongly promoted having a steak roll and other Griddle delights during a journey.

I believe there were eight Mk1 loco hauled griddle cars, number series 11**, although happy to be corrected. None were the same, they were essentially concepts, with each having a different internal configuration inside, both seating and catering sides. I understand one was a regular on the Kings Cross-Cambridge run. I think the only other one in existence than the Mid-Hants one is at Dereham on the Mid Norfolk.

Anyway, way off topic now, sorry…

 

[AY1975]

Perhaps the only fault of the video is that it does not show a picture of the interior of the griddle car, which is something I had been wanting to see. Are these pictures of loco hauled griddle cars since the video states that NSE replaced the griddle cars with conventional seating in the 1980s?

Here's another video of the 309s in as-built condition, with pre-refurbishment interior views including some of the griddle car:

 

[AM9]

Here's another video of the 309s in as-built condition, with pre-refurbishment interior views including some of the griddle car:

Thanks for finding that. It takes me back to see the interior of the Griddle Car. The standing area was normally at the country end.
The clip at 0:53 describes the 2+1 seating as "Second class open seating - and tables" in the same context as the previous frames showing a first class compartment. That is misleading as the general second class seating was a normal TSO arrangement of 2+2 open seating with tables ISTR. That 2+1 searing is at the opposite end of the Griddle car to the standing area. It was very popular with boarders at Liverpool St as by the '70s 2+1 SO carriages were pretty rare on LHCS, being largely superceded by TSOs.
Another point that comes out in these films is that in later years, the standard orientation of the units tended to break down, especially when many of the 309/1 2-car units gained two extra trailers. Originally the 10-car lineup was for the 2-car units to lead with the trailer on down triains so that the pantograph was not at the front even when the train was split at Thorpe-le-Soken and the front 6 went off to Clacton. This I'm told was to avoid night-time running where any arcing from a pantograph immediately over the driver's cab could affect visibility of other problems with flashing white light.

 

[PeterC]

Here's another video of the 309s in as-built condition, with pre-refurbishment interior views including some of the griddle car:

Great film, brought back memories. Loved the first class seating.

To be pedantic very few were "as built". Most had the 2 panel cab windows rather than the original wrap around.

 

[Paul Jones 88]

I've never been on a 309, but I wonder how they compare with the 411 CEPs that I was familiar with, which at first glance seem similar.

 

[AM9]

I've never been on a 309, but I wonder how they compare with the 411 CEPs that I was familiar with, which at first glance seem similar.

They were more sprightly on open track, not only because their power to weight ratio was about 11% higher* but also weren't hampered by the limitations of a 750V 3rd rail supply. Their commonwealth bogies were also far smoother over indifferent track and didn't hunt at speed with their special profile wheelsets.
Internally, they were less Spartan with full double glazing and (probably) better sound insulation.

* That performance was of consists comprising only four-car units, (sub-classes 309/2 & /3. Most services ran as 10-car sets boosted by the higher power to weight ratio of the 309/1s. There were experiments on the SEML boosting the power to weight ratio of the BEP/CEP consists with MLVs but if the drivers took full advantage of the extra power, the 3rd rail power supply tended to trip.
The peak 12-car specials running with two four and two two-car units had over 4500hp available which the 25Kv supply could readily provide.

 

[Paul Jones 88]

Thanks AM9, most informative.

 

[AY1975]

These were the units (611-618) with a vehicle fitted with a small buffet complete with a hot-plate (aka griddle) for small hot meals & breakfasts. In effect a 'mini' Restaurant Car for medium-length journeys like the ones the 309s undertook and for which a full-size Restaurant Car would not be suitable.

The video does get one thing wrong: it seems to imply that the griddle cars lasted until the 309s were refurbished in the mid to late 1980s, when in fact I believe that the griddle cars were withdrawn and replaced by converted loco-hauled Mark 1 TSOs in about 1980/81 as part of a national review of on-train catering which also led to the withdrawal of all buffet cars on the South Eastern Division of the Southern Region at about the same time.

In some ways I think the catering offer on the Clacton line in the 1960s and '70s was rather over-generous by today's standards. A griddle car service on a route with an end-to-end journey time of only about 90 minutes would seem incredible now.

 

[AM9]

The video does get one thing wrong: it seems to imply that the griddle cars lasted until the 309s were refurbished in the mid to late 1980s, when in fact I believe that the griddle cars were withdrawn and replaced by converted loco-hauled Mark 1 TSOs in about 1980/81 as part of a national review of on-train catering which also led to the withdrawal of all buffet cars on the South Eastern Division of the Southern Region at about the same time.

In some ways I think the catering offer on the Clacton line in the 1960s and '70s was rather over-generous by today's standards. A griddle car service on a route with an end-to-end journey time of only about 90 minutes would seem incredible now.

I can't confirm whatever happened after 1976 as I moved away from Essex then. However, until the the griddle cars were very popular and probably warranted their existence into the '80s. If the takings were good, that probably trumped any concept of the journey being not long enough. I moved to South Hants and the buffets on the Portsmouth direct line were not as well patronised by then.

 

[AY1975]

I can't confirm whatever happened after 1976 as I moved away from Essex then. However, until the the griddle cars were very popular and probably warranted their existence into the '80s. If the takings were good, that probably trumped any concept of the journey being not long enough. I moved to South Hants and the buffets on the Portsmouth direct line were not as well patronised by then.

According to entry 51 in this now-closed thread on the withdrawal of buffet cars on the South Eastern Division of the Southern Region:

Why did the South Eastern Division do away with buffet cars long before the Central Division did so?

Interesting interior BEP pic here from latter years - 2003 it says. Couldn't find an image pre-refurb with a more original interior on my cursory look https://www.flickr.com/photos/rpmarks/8218681622 and exterior https://sremg.org.uk/gallery/class411_3.html Not sure if it's a buffet unit, but...

railforums.co.uk

In the January 1980 edition of Railway Magazine there was a report on a (national) review of train catering in which 'only' Clacton, Ramsgate and Hastings were to be chopped, from May.

This would suggest that the griddle cars were indeed withdrawn in 1980. In this day and age, any form of on-train catering on a route with an end-to-end journey time of less than about 90 minutes to two hours, particularly on a service with frequent stops where most passengers tend to be travelling intermediately rather than end-to-end, would probably be considered uneconomic. I would also guess that places like Clacton and Walton-on-the-Naze could attract large numbers of visitors on a fine day in summer but probably don't get anywhere near the amount of year-round traffic as the south coast resorts such as Brighton and Bournemouth, hence the wildly fluctuating levels of demand for on-train catering on routes where the traffic is largely seasonal and weather-dependent.