New class 309 video on You Tube.

[AM9]

I stumbled over this video today: "Class 309 - the Clacton Express". I couldn't believe my eyes, it opens up with a 309 running through Ilford. For those that remember the 309s in any of their roles, this video is a good record of their lives, even a few seconds on one in it's original maroon. For anybody who appreciates them, enjoy.

 

[Master29]

One of the first Express journeys I did was onboard a 309 to Clacton but I remember being at Liverpool St and being scared by a then green class 37 start up. One of my defining moments in railway interest I think. I can remember going at what seemed very fast compared to the 305's. Thanks for showing us the link.

 

[Neo9320]

I stumbled over this video today: "Class 309 - the Clacton Express". I couldn't believe my eyes, it opens up with a 309 running through Ilford. For those that remember the 309s in any of their roles, this video is a good record of their lives, even a few seconds on one in it's original maroon. For anybody who appreciates them, enjoy.

I watched that this morning too! Very good video, I love his stuff!

 

[Class360/1]

I stumbled over this video today: "Class 309 - the Clacton Express". I couldn't believe my eyes, it opens up with a 309 running through Ilford. For those that remember the 309s in any of their roles, this video is a good record of their lives, even a few seconds on one in it's original maroon. For anybody who appreciates them, enjoy.

I watched it yesterday; a very good watch indeed

 

[Strathclyder]

Just got done watching it. Top-notch, like the rest of his stuff. Hope the group in question is successful in securing 624 a new home.

 

[Eviga Resande]

Greatly enjoyed this one, since the 309 was the train I knew I'd be getting on, to go on holiday in the '80s. I still need to repent (and so does my Dad!) for referring to the class as the 'donkey train' since the design/compressor noise etc. felt quite aged compared to the relatively space-age design of the 321s. Given that the Dustys are now on their way out, I feel very, very middle aged...

 

[pieguyrob]

It was an interesting documentary. I rode the last ones between Manchester and Stockport before they were withdrawn. Happy days.

 

[Bald Rick]

I love this sort of stuff. Not for the trains (which don’t interest me), but seeing the state of the infrastructure and how it was operated. Thank you for posting, @AM9

 

[Anonymous10]

I stumbled over this video today: "Class 309 - the Clacton Express". I couldn't believe my eyes, it opens up with a 309 running through Ilford. For those that remember the 309s in any of their roles, this video is a good record of their lives, even a few seconds on one in it's original maroon. For anybody who appreciates them, enjoy.

they make some good videos

 

[306024]

I love this sort of stuff. Not for the trains (which don’t interest me), but seeing the state of the infrastructure and how it was operated. Thank you for posting, @AM9

Fortunate to commute on 309s, not many trains interest me either, but some were special

A couple of known characters feature too which is always good for a laugh.

 

[AM9]

I love this sort of stuff. Not for the trains (which don’t interest me), but seeing the state of the infrastructure and how it was operated. Thank you for posting, @AM9

Yes, you can see on some shots, where the Britannias are shown, the original OLE whilst 1500VDC was still there, and at 5:47 it's still amazing to see the sheer volume of passengers that Liverpool St handled. The original LNER EMUs (later to be class 306) were incredibly ahead of their time as people carriers, and much safer than the newer slam-door compartment stock.

 

[D821]

I was just reading up on the 309s on Wikipedia, what are "griddle units"?

 

[Strathclyder]

I was just reading up on the 309s on Wikipedia, what are "griddle units"?

These were the units (611-618) with a vehicle fitted with a small buffet complete with a hot-plate (aka griddle) for small hot meals & breakfasts. In effect a 'mini' Restaurant Car for medium-length journeys like the ones the 309s undertook and for which a full-size Restaurant Car would not be suitable.

Linked below is a small selection of images of a loco-hauled griddle car in preservation on the Mid-Hants Railway (all linked images copyright of Flickr's mjh0) to give you a idea of the concept. The 309s with the griddle cars were reformed in the early 1980s IIRC.

brmk1griddlecar photos on Flickr

Flickr photos, groups, and tags related to the "brmk1griddlecar" Flickr tag.

www.flickr.com

(@hexagon789 can correct me if I'm wrong here of course. )

 

[D821]

These were the units (611-618) with a vehicle fitted with a small buffet complete with a hot-plate (aka griddle) for small hot meals & breakfasts. In effect a 'mini' Restaurant Car for medium-length journeys like the ones the 309s undertook and for which a full-size Restaurant Car would not be suitable.

Thanks!

 

[AM9]

Further to the above, the griddle cars were very popular in the '70s on the peak services. The seating area had four bays of 2 + 1 seating with tables, with plenty of room often occupied by a group of card players who managed to squeeze 6 into four seats. The food offering wasn't bad either, bacon sandwiches being a favourite. The exception was one unit (ISTR 614 or 616, - I can't remember which), where the original car had structural problems so it was replaced with a buffet car from one of the Trans-Pennine DMUs, which effectively was a poor substitute as it had loose seats and wooden trimmed window frames with single glazing, i.e. more standard MKI fare and noisier. It was easily identifiable as it also had B4 bogies instead of Commonwealth types.
In essence, they were a fine demonstration of how EMUs were just as good (or better) than LHCS for quality express services running in critical paths. Had the ECML been electrified in the '60s, express EMUs may well have been developed sooner than they were.

 

[Royston Vasey]

The videos that he/they make are always beautifully researched, written and assembled; I do think they stretch "Fair Use" to extremes though.


The use of short factual clips for educational use is fair use, but there are usually lots of "Credit - Unknown" footnotes, when even I recognise the source of many of them, and he/they must have sourced them somewhere to use them in the first place.

 

[PeterC]

I do differ with his comment that the 2 car units were for peak hour strengthening. My memory from the 60s is that 10 cars was the normal configuration, dividing at Thorpe-le-Soken with 6 cars to Clacton and 4 cars to Walton.

They are still my favourite EMU

 

[507020]

These were the units (611-618) with a vehicle fitted with a small buffet complete with a hot-plate (aka griddle) for small hot meals & breakfasts. In effect a 'mini' Restaurant Car for medium-length journeys like the ones the 309s undertook and for which a full-size Restaurant Car would not be suitable.

Linked below is a small selection of images of a loco-hauled griddle car in preservation on the Mid-Hants Railway (all linked images copyright of Flickr's mjh0) to give you a idea of the concept. The 309s with the griddle cars were reformed in the early 1980s IIRC.

brmk1griddlecar photos on Flickr

Flickr photos, groups, and tags related to the "brmk1griddlecar" Flickr tag.

www.flickr.com

(@hexagon789 can correct me if I'm wrong here of course. )

Perhaps the only fault of the video is that it does not show a picture of the interior of the griddle car, which is something I had been wanting to see. Are these pictures of loco hauled griddle cars since the video states that NSE replaced the griddle cars with conventional seating in the 1980s?

Further to the above, the griddle cars were very popular in the '70s on the peak services. The seating area had four bays of 2 + 1 seating with tables, with plenty of room often occupied by a group of card players who managed to squeeze 6 into four seats. The food offering wasn't bad either, bacon sandwiches being a favourite. The exception was one unit (ISTR 614 or 616, - I can't remember which), where the original car had structural problems so it was replaced with a buffet car from one of the Trans-Pennine DMUs, which effectively was a poor substitute as it had loose seats and wooden trimmed window frames with single glazing, i.e. more standard MKI fare and noisier. It was easily identifiable as it also had B4 bogies instead of Commonwealth types.
In essence, they were a fine demonstration of how EMUs were just as good (or better) than LHCS for quality express services running in critical paths. Had the ECML been electrified in the '60s, express EMUs may well have been developed sooner than they were.

The video does mention that it was 309616 that received a buffet car from a Class 123 DMU. Did this Diesel car previously carry an engine or was it an unpowered trailer? When the ECML was eventually electrified 30 years later, the main electric fleet was of course comprised of Class 91 locomotives and not EMUs at all, so what would be an example of these express EMUs which could have been developed earlier?

 

[AM9]

I do differ with his comment that the 2 car units were for peak hour strengthening. My memory from the 60s is that 10 cars was the normal configuration, dividing at Thorpe-le-Soken with 6 cars to Clacton and 4 cars to Walton.

They are still my favourite EMU

Yes I agree, the stadard configuration (from the country end) was:
309/1 - 2-car
309/2 - 4-car griddle car set
309/3 - 4-car composite set
Whe they arrived at Thorpe-le-Soken, the leading 6-cars went straight to Clacton, leaving the remaining 4-car set to go to Walton-on-the-Naze, - a perfect arrangement that gave more time for the Clacton train to turn round and service the griddle car.
The reinforcement of trains in the peaks with additional 2-car units was as far as I remember limited to one peak down train in the evening, i.e. the 17:40 (1F78?). This train's consist was:
309/1 - 2-car
309/1 - 2-car
309/2 - 4-car griddle car set
309/3 - 4-car composite set
The train went to Clacton only I think. First stop was Colchester, it left London 10 minutes after the 17:30 to Yarmouth via Norwich, (class 47 + 11) and usually arrived at Colchester less than 2 minutes after it. Both trains were constrained by a fast between Liverpool St. and Shenfield and intermediate between Stratford and Harold Wood, both 75mph EMUs, on their way to to Southend Victoria, so the time was made up on the sprint after Shenfield.

 

[hexagon789]

These were the units (611-618) with a vehicle fitted with a small buffet complete with a hot-plate (aka griddle) for small hot meals & breakfasts. In effect a 'mini' Restaurant Car for medium-length journeys like the ones the 309s undertook and for which a full-size Restaurant Car would not be suitable.

Linked below is a small selection of images of a loco-hauled griddle car in preservation on the Mid-Hants Railway (all linked images copyright of Flickr's mjh0) to give you a idea of the concept. The 309s with the griddle cars were reformed in the early 1980s IIRC.

brmk1griddlecar photos on Flickr

Flickr photos, groups, and tags related to the "brmk1griddlecar" Flickr tag.

www.flickr.com

(@hexagon789 can correct me if I'm wrong here of course. )

That's basically it essentially. From memory there was one loco-hauled Mk1 Griddle Car (based in Scotland and often used on the Glasgow-Aberdeen route into the 1970s) and also the 124 TransPennine DMUs had a Griddle in their buffet car - advertising publicity of the time strongly promoted having a steak roll and other Griddle delights during a journey.

The video does mention that it was 309616 that received a buffet car from a Class 123 DMU. Did this Diesel car previously carry an engine or was it an unpowered trailer?

Trailer - coded TSLRB (Trailer Second Lavatory Restaurant Buffet), on 123s only the outer cars were powered, by two 230bhp Leyland Albion engines (later derated to 200bhp). I imagine the 123 vehicle was chosen because it was the only DMU class with 100mph bogies - B4s. The TransPennine 124s had the standard pattern DMU bogies of the period which rode quite roughly in curves at speed.

 

[AM9]

Perhaps the only fault of the video is that it does not show a picture of the interior of the griddle car, which is something I had been wanting to see. Are these pictures of loco hauled griddle cars since the video states that NSE replaced the griddle cars with conventional seating in the 1980s?

The video does mention that it was 309616 that received a buffet car from a Class 123 DMU. Did this Diesel car previously carry an engine or was it an unpowered trailer? When the ECML was eventually electrified 30 years later, the main electric fleet was of course comprised of Class 91 locomotives and not EMUs at all, so what would be an example of these express EMUs which could have been developed earlier?

The class 123 originally ran with a TSLRB which was unmotored. The 123s didn't have Commonwealth bogies, being slightly younger than the 309s they were able to benefit from b4 types, which given their underpowering, helped reduce the tare weight.
edit: @hexagon789 you just beat me to it!
Of course this is only specuilating, but had 100mph EMUs based on MKIs been more widespread (and a success), there might have been a MKIII EMU by the late '70s that was capable of 125mph, (think along the lines of a 442 without the limitationsof 3rd rail power collection and the inadequacy of the low track voltage for sustained high speed). It was a few years later (1981) when the MKIII bodied 317s were introduced as 100mph trains) so a 23m long express configuration would have been entirely within the scope of designs in the late '70s.

 

[hexagon789]

Of course this is only specuilating, but had 100mph EMUs based on MKIs been more widespread (and a success), there might have been a MKIII EMU by the late '70s that was capable of 125mph, (think along the lines of a 442 without the limitationsof 3rd rail power collection and the inadequacy of the low track voltage for sustained high speed). It was a few years later (1981) when the MKIII bodied 317s were introduced as 100mph trains) so a 23m long express configuration would have been entirely within the scope of designs in the late '70s.

There was - the APT-P, though not MkIII design and capable of 155mph rather than 125mph but that's splitting hairs

 

[AM9]

There was - the APT-P, though not MkIII design and capable of 155mph rather than 125mph but that's splitting hairs

Yes I did think of that but that was a) designed initially for the twisty WCML, and used completely different construction techniques akin more to aircraft of the day. However a 125mph IC configuration EMU would have not only found use on an electrified ECML, but also might have found work on services to Norwich, Leicester (assuming the MML was electrified earlier) and in Scotland. Consider how many calls there have been for a 'class 344' on RUK over the years.

 

[hexagon789]

Yes I did think of that but that was a) designed initially for the twisty WCML, and used completely different construction techniques akin more to aircraft of the day. However a 125mph IC configuration EMU would have not only found use on an electrified ECML, but also might have found work on services to Norwich, Leicester (assuming the MML was electrified earlier) and in Scotland. Consider how many calls there have been for a 'class 344' on RailUK Forums over the years.

I think the HST-E project would fit then, not an EMU exactly in the same way the HSTs were never truly DMUs, but 125mph and with MkIII coaches and electrically powered.

 

[WAO]

When I was acting as a guide at the former ERM at Coventry, where the two surviving 309's were then located, a visitor explained that he had worked on them when they were being used on the Old Dalby Test Track.

He had to check them over and found that they and the whole class were actually out of gauge for their whole working lives, but it was never discovered. He had the suspension adjusted so that those two 309's are the only ones ever to be in gauge!

WAO

 

[AM9]

When I was acting as a guide at the former ERM at Coventry, where the two surviving 309's were then located, a visitor explained that he had worked on them when they were being used on the Old Dalby Test Track.

He had to check them over and found that they and the whole class were actually out of gauge for their whole working lives, but it was never discovered. He had the suspension adjusted so that those two 309's are the only ones ever to be in gauge!

WAO

In what way were they out of gauge? The GEML certainly wasn't the most generous of structure gauges.

 

[WAO]

We inferred that it was body height as no other mods (such as bodywork trimming) than suspension were mentioned, although that would have been easily checked in life. Perhaps someone reading this knows more?

WAO

 

[AM9]

We inferred that it was body height as no other mods (such as bodywork trimming) than suspension were mentioned, although that would have been easily checked in life. Perhaps someone reading this knows more?

WAO

I suppose that operating on track with OLE, the clearances would probably be ok for an inch or two.

 

[Strathclyder]

That's basically it essentially. From memory there was one loco-hauled Mk1 Griddle Car (based in Scotland and often used on the Glasgow-Aberdeen route into the 1970s) and also the 124 TransPennine DMUs had a Griddle in their buffet car - advertising publicity of the time strongly promoted having a steak roll and other Griddle delights during a journey.

Aye. Here it is the Scottish loco-hauled griddle car (courtesy of Eastbank.org.uk; 8th section down on the linked page) in BR service; the image at Glasgow Queen St dates from May 1979 while the Turkey Yard one is undated.

 

[greyman42]

Does anyone know who made the 309 video?