How could reliability of the Airedale and Wharfedale lines be improved?

[Halifaxlad]

If Canal Road reopened it would definitely require a recast of services as it would only make sense on the Forster Square service which gets caught up by the xx18 or xx48 semi fast as it is.

Unless it was built about 0.7km to the East where it could sit on the lines to Harrogate.

 

[30907]

I would reinstate a third bi-directional track between Rodley and Dockfield Jcn using the redundant alignment and Thackley Tunnel. This would help with getting freight off the mainline and may help with pathing (I hope).

As a non-stopping freight takes the same time (+/-1) as the standard semi-fast DMU, and there are already loops at Kirkstall, I am not sure there's much benefit - unless Calverley & Rodley reopens, in which case you could loop the stopper efficiently; you'd need to rebuild Apperley Bridge too.

 

[Ken H]

If you are going to run more trains between Keighley and Skipton you have to consider the 2 level crossings. the one at Kildwick* is often down for long periods with no trains for a long period. Clearly a symptom of a very long section. Its a busy road, and the approach to a hospital.
I think more signals between Keighley and Skipton are needed now, never mind if more trains are run.
*Rarely go through Connonley

 

[Halish Railway]

As a non-stopping freight takes the same time (+/-1) as the standard semi-fast DMU, and there are already loops at Kirkstall, I am not sure there's much benefit - unless Calverley & Rodley reopens, in which case you could loop the stopper efficiently; you'd need to rebuild Apperley Bridge too.

4 tracking as the document proposes would start at Apperley Jn and will be designated as Up/down Wharfedale or Airedale so that a fast train from Ilkley can overtake a stopper from Bradford.

 

[47434]

Why do you have to have the Bradford - Skipton service stopping at Shipley when it already has a Leeds - Skipton service ?

Because it is well used. The connection from Skipton into the London train was particularly busy. Others are a cross pfm connection into the Forster Sq. - Leeds services - especially if an LDS service is late or cancelled

 

[Halish Railway]

Reactivating an old thread with what you may consider to be some fairly pie in the sky ideas here, What about:
- Killing two birds with one stone by reopening Kildwick & Crosshills as a three platform station, with a middle turnback platform a la Bromsgrove or Rochdale instead of having a turnback siding at Keighley.
- Closing the level crossings at Kildwick and Cononley by building bypass roads.
- Grade separating Shipley East / Dockfield Jn, with a flyover for the Ilkley line and Bradford to Leeds trains.

Although such schemes would only be required if Skipton to Colne reopens and results in more passenger trains and significantly more freight trains.

 

[YorksLad12]

Reactivating an old thread with what you may consider to be some fairly pie in the sky ideas here, What about:
- Killing two birds with one stone by reopening Kildwick & Crosshills as a three platform station, with a middle turnback platform a la Bromsgrove or Rochdale instead of having a turnback siding at Keighley.
- Closing the level crossings at Kildwick and Cononley by building bypass roads.
- Grade separating Shipley East / Dockfield Jn, with a flyover for the Ilkley line and Bradford to Leeds trains.

Although such schemes would only be required if Skipton to Colne reopens and results in more passenger trains and significantly more freight trains.

So... they won't be needed then

Crosshills (in North Yorkshire) was a re-opening suggestion in, I think, 2014 and got nowhere as a simple two-platform station!

 

[zwk500]

- Grade separating Shipley East / Dockfield Jn, with a flyover for the Ilkley line and Bradford to Leeds trains.

May I ask how this is achieved without destroying people's houses.

Although such schemes would only be required if Skipton to Colne reopens and results in more passenger trains and significantly more freight trains.

Phew, dodged a bullet then!

 

[bluenoxid]

Reactivating an old thread with what you may consider to be some fairly pie in the sky ideas here, What about:
- Killing two birds with one stone by reopening Kildwick & Crosshills as a three platform station, with a middle turnback platform a la Bromsgrove or Rochdale instead of having a turnback siding at Keighley.
- Closing the level crossings at Kildwick and Cononley by building bypass roads.
- Grade separating Shipley East / Dockfield Jn, with a flyover for the Ilkley line and Bradford to Leeds trains.

Although such schemes would only be required if Skipton to Colne reopens and results in more passenger trains and significantly more freight trains.

There isn’t a lot of space on the site of the old Crosshills and Kildwick station to build a station. Rebuilding Steeton (and Silsden) might be a stronger proposal.

 

[30907]

There isn’t a lot of space on the site of the old Crosshills and Kildwick station to build a station. Rebuilding Steeton (and Silsden) might be a stronger proposal.

Or a station East of the LC? Not so convenient for locals!

Cononley LC would be very expensive to bypass (apart from rat-running through the new housing behind Green's Mill over Moorfoot Lane bridge).

 

[Halifaxlad]

- Killing two birds with one stone by reopening Kildwick & Crosshills as a three platform station, with a middle turnback platform a la Bromsgrove or Rochdale instead of having a turnback siding at Keighley.

Isn't there enough room North of Keighley to slew the lines over and put a turnback siding in the middle ?

If a turnback is to be created anywhere below the level crossing at Crosshills and Kildwick would be preferable!

 

[30907]

Isn't there enough room North of Keighley to slew the lines over and put a turnback siding in the middle ?

Tight for length, and it would create an awkward curve on the Down line, which would slow freight. In any case, Metro would want to have trains serve Steeton and S.

If a turnback is to be created anywhere below the level crossing at Crosshills and Kildwick would be preferable!

Agreed.

 

[Halifaxlad]

Tight for length, and it would create an awkward curve on the Down line, which would slow freight. In any case, Metro would want to have trains serve Steeton and S.

It might not be as bad if Lawkholme lane bridge was rebuilt to facilitate the line being slewed over, which would allow it to be further back towards Skipton.

Originally the bridge was built for four tracks, although the now unused side arches certainly wouldn't fit overhead line or freight services through.

 

[30907]

It might not be as bad if Lawkholme lane bridge was rebuilt to facilitate the line being slewed over, which would allow it to be further back towards Skipton.

True, but I'd still go with Steeton.

 

[Halifaxlad]

True, but I'd still go with Steeton.

What about a new station in the middle between both with a turnback where it is nice and straight ?

A station in the middle between Steeton and Silsden and Crosshills and Kildwick would be much more convient for those travelling to Airedale Hospital, also could be instead of a station at C & K ?

 

[Ken H]

What about a new station in the middle between both with a turnback where it is nice and straight ?

A station in the middle between Steeton and Silsden and Crosshills and Kildwick would be much more convient for those travelling to Airedale Hospital, also could be instead of a station at C & K ?

Its less than a mile from the station to the hospital as the crow flies. There is an exiting access to the hospital from Thornhill Rd. (comes out near A+E) Just needs a few ginnels* to make a walking route. A hospital station would be very close to the existing station.

* Local name for a path between houses, an alley.

 

[Halifaxlad]

Its less than a mile from the station to the hospital as the crow flies. There is an exiting access to the hospital from Thornhill Rd. (comes out near A+E) Just needs a few ginnels* to make a walking route. A hospital station would be very close to the existing station.

* Local name for a path between houses, an alley.

But it (the hospital) still isn't convenient for rail users. Lets face it those travelling to the hospital will more than likely travel by road!

A station in the middle could also serve Crosshills and Kildwick and Steeton quite easily. As for Silsden I have long thought that a new junction on the A629 should be created for the hospital with access under the Airevalley line, if done this would also improve road access from Silsden to any potential new station.

Personally I'm sure we will end with up two stations between Keighley and Cononley anyway.

 

[Ken H]

But it (the hospital) still isn't convenient for rail users. Lets face it those travelling to the hospital will more than likely travel by road!

A station in the middle could also serve Crosshills and Kildwick and Steeton quite easily. As for Silsden I have long thought that a new junction on the A629 should be created for the hospital with access under the Airevalley line, if done this would also improve road access from Silsden to any potential new station.

Personally I'm sure we will end with up two stations between Keighley and Cononley anyway.

Must admit, when I go to Airedale, I go by car. But then I live west of Skipton so any public transport will involve changing.
People from Keighley will more likely use the bus. Especially the Burnley bus as it actually goes in the hospital grounds.
Anyway, when I first went in 2018, I had to be driven. Burst appendix at 2am and no ambulances were available. And the barriers at the damn level crossing at kildwick was down Now I go to the next roundabout on the Aire Valley trunk road and double back.

 

[Halifaxlad]

Anyway, when I first went in 2018, I had to be driven.

Me too I first went by taxi.

I still suprised where the hospital is, personally I think its a bit remote but I guess it was built to serve Keighley & Skipton.

 

[Ken H]

Me too I first went by taxi.

I still suprised where the hospital is, personally I think its a bit remote but I guess it was built to serve Keighley & Skipton.

Colne, settle, ilkley, upper wharfedale and upper ribblesdale, worth valley.

 

[30907]

Me too I first went by taxi.

I still suprised where the hospital is, personally I think its a bit remote but I guess it was built to serve Keighley & Skipton.

I presume it was built (1970) on the nearest piece of open land to the Airedale build-up area and on a main road (the trunk road is about 1990 as is the reopened station). Rail access wouldn't have been a factor, as the local service had just been withdrawn (1965?).
Airedale draws from the NW side of Bradford, certainly as far in as Shipley, as well as the Dales; I imagine there was an older hospital in Keighley (there is a downgraded one still in Skipton) and probably small ones in Bingley and Ilkley.

 

[Halifaxlad]

Steeton & Silsden is served by train.

There is a desire to construct a new station to serve Crosshills & Kildwick.

What is the point of having 2 stations when you could get away with one ?

 

[zwk500]

Steeton & Silsden is served by train.
There is a desire to construct a new station to serve Crosshills & Kildwick.

Fantastic. Put a station down on Station Road in Crosshills and run a stop-skipping services alternating between Steeton & Silsden and Crosshills.

What is the point of having 2 stations when you could get away with one ?

An excellent question, but preceeding it is the other excellent question 'does 1 station serve these towns better than 2?'. I don't know the area at all, but a look at Google maps would suggest that a compromise station is not going to improve access to the railway for more people than it disadvantages.

 

[Mag_seven]

Just a gentle reminder that the thread is for discussion about how the reliability of the Airedale and Wharfedale lines could be improved.

If anyone wants to discuss anything else they are welcome to start a new thread.

thanks