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No 10 rule breaking gatherings during 2020.

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bramling

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I suspect she has her eyes on the big prize too, and a place in the House of Lords

Much as one has *some* element of sympathy for the fact she was in a very difficult position that day, it’s a symbol of how rotten our establishment has become that she has been able to get as far as she has.

At the end of the day her error led to the death of a person who was doing nothing more than going about his daily life, and I continue to find it remiss that Dick has managed to get where she is now.

The way she has conducted herself since has done nothing to make me doubt this position.
 
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johnnychips

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Lady Dick of Stockwell? Sounds like one of those cards you used to find in London phone boxes.
 

brad465

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After all the revalations so far, have any led to the police making an arrest?
That says more about the police than those involved in the revelations, to the point that the Good Law Poject are going to court to find out if the Met are being unlawful not investigating them (even if investigations led to arrests, which isn't guaranteed).
 

Xenophon PCDGS

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That says more about the police than those involved in the revelations, to the point that the Good Law Poject are going to court to find out if the Met are being unlawful not investigating them (even if investigations led to arrests, which isn't guaranteed).
Any idea when that organisation are taking their case forward to a Court of Law? When was the last time the the police were summoned to appear as a statutory body to face a legal challenge to a decision why they did not perform their statutory duty? Would the Crown Prosecution Service be a defendant in such a case?
 

bspahh

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Any idea when that organisation are taking their case forward to a Court of Law? When was the last time the the police were summoned to appear as a statutory body to face a legal challenge to a decision why they did not perform their statutory duty? Would the Crown Prosecution Service be a defendant in such a case?
Jolyon Maughan of the Good Law Project tweeted on December 30th:
Just reupping because we have now heard back from the Met and expect to make an announcement early next week.
 

island

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That says more about the police than those involved in the revelations, to the point that the Good Law Poject are going to court to find out if the Met are being unlawful not investigating them (even if investigations led to arrests, which isn't guaranteed).
The GLP are mainly grandstanding and are misusing the judicial review process to conduct political campaigns. I would be very surprised if a court was to substitute its view for the judgment of the Met that prosecution is not a good use of police resource.
 

takno

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The judicial review aspect of this troubles me a lot. The police have a very sensible position that they aren't going to go round chasing anybody retrospectively for these "crimes". I think it's important that this applies irrespective of whether you're an ordinary person or a downing st civil servant. It's been a horrific 2 years, and the last thing we need is to spend the next 5 years arguing over minor breaches of terrible laws.

In summary, it's annoying that they did it at that time, and politicians should be forced to resign, but there's no need to drag the police and courts into this.
 

DelayRepay

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The judicial review aspect of this troubles me a lot. The police have a very sensible position that they aren't going to go round chasing anybody retrospectively for these "crimes". I think it's important that this applies irrespective of whether you're an ordinary person or a downing st civil servant. It's been a horrific 2 years, and the last thing we need is to spend the next 5 years arguing over minor breaches of terrible laws.

In summary, it's annoying that they did it at that time, and politicians should be forced to resign, but there's no need to drag the police and courts into this.
I would agree that the police should not waste time investigating what happened over a year ago. It is not a good use of their scares resources.

But, if we are going to take that approach, then all cases currently going through the courts related to unlawful gatherings should be dropped, and anyone who has already paid a fixed penalty notice or fine should receive a full refund, with interest. An apology from the government is too much to hope for...
 

takno

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I would agree that the police should not waste time investigating what happened over a year ago. It is not a good use of their scares resources.

But, if we are going to take that approach, then all cases currently going through the courts related to unlawful gatherings should be dropped, and anyone who has already paid a fixed penalty notice or fine should receive a full refund, with interest. An apology from the government is too much to hope for...
I'd completely agree on cases going through the courts now, although the numbers of those must be really small. In terms of fines paid I think it's kind of best left as it is through
 

DelayRepay

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Mr drakeford was spotted in Bristol last night that caused a it of a stir here in Wales
Really? He doesn't look the sort. I would have thought staying at home with a hot chocolate and a good book would be a normal new year's eve for him, Covid restrictions or not.
 

bspahh

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I would agree that the police should not waste time investigating what happened over a year ago. It is not a good use of their scares resources.

But, if we are going to take that approach, then all cases currently going through the courts related to unlawful gatherings should be dropped, and anyone who has already paid a fixed penalty notice or fine should receive a full refund, with interest. An apology from the government is too much to hope for...
Its not a good look for the Metropolitan police to turn a blind eye to wrong doing by the government at the same time that they were using their scaring resources on protests for the Sarah Everard vigil.

The Justice Inspectorate report on that

https://www.justiceinspectorates.go...sarah-everard-clapham-common/#our-conclusions says:


Generally, there are major benefits to society when the police behave consistently and within the spectrum of reasonable decisions open to them in the light of the circumstances of the case. The British policing model is based on public consent (which we expand on later in this report). Police efficiency and effectiveness – the lenses through which we must always look to reach our judgments – are preserved or enhanced when there is public consent to policing. In our reports, we often comment on police legitimacy too: the extent to which the police’s behaviour, particularly when enforcing the law, is seen as legitimate in the eyes of the public. Legitimacy, consent to policing and confidence in the police go hand in hand. But public consent is hard‑won. It is fragile and may be withdrawn at any time.

It was – and remains – wholly legitimate for the Metropolitan Police to place a high value on preserving public consent and confidence, by behaving legitimately. And it is consistent with the oath of office, taken by all police officers, which requires them to serve with impartiality.
 

brad465

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Cummings is back again with a new party allegation, this time claiming a "social event" took place at No.10 on the 20th May 2020:


Former Downing Street adviser Dominic Cummings has alleged a social event which took place in No 10 on 20 May 2020 may have broken Covid rules.
In his blog, he said a "senior No 10 official" invited people to "socially distanced drinks" in the garden.
Mr Cummings said he and another adviser had warned that this could be against the rules but were told the event had gone ahead.
Downing Street has been approached for comment.
The first coronavirus lockdown was introduced in England in late March and were slowly relaxed in May 2020, but it was not until 1 June that people were allowed to meet outside in groups of up to six people.

In December, Prime Minister Boris Johnson asked Simon Case, the UK's top civil servant, to investigate after a series of allegations about events taking place in government buildings despite coronavirus restrictions.
Mr Case later stepped down after suggestions one of the parties took place in his own office and the investigation was passed to Sue Gray, another senior civil servant.
Mr Cummings has now urged Ms Gray to "dig up" the email invitations to the event on 20 May - and his email to colleagues warning against it.
He also said the senior civil servant should look in to his claim that a party took place in Mr Johnson's Downing Street flat on 13 November - something No 10 has previously denied.
However, Mr Cummings has argued that one allegation of a rule-breaking event is false.
Last month, the Guardian published a photo from 15 May 2020 of the prime minister with his wife and 17 other staff members - including Mr Cummings - in the Downing Street garden with bottles of wine and a cheeseboard.
Writing on his blog, Mr Cummings, who was forced out of Downing Street at the end of 2020 after an internal power struggle, said "the scene on the terrace was in no sense a 'party' or 'organised drinks'".
"Many meetings had been taking place in the garden all day... those on the terrace nearest me in the photo had been having a meeting.
"No 10 staff were encouraged to have meetings in the garden April-August for the obvious reason that we were in a pandemic with an airborne disease and being outside was safer!"

If this is true I'd expect photo evidence to follow in the papers somewhere. But if this doesn't happen, then he's either lying or the paper's are not interested, or it's true but photo evidence doesn't exist.
 

Xenophon PCDGS

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brad465

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ITV's Paul Brand has obtained and published a photo of an email that PPS Martin Reynolds sent to 100 staff inviting them to a No.10 garden party, which 30-40 people followed up on, cited as the first evidence of this alleged party on the 20th May 2020:


Downing Street staff were invited to a drinks party in the Number 10 garden during the height of nationwide lockdown to "make the most of the lovely weather".

An email shared exclusively with ITV News provides the first evidence of a party on May 20, 2020, when the rest of the country was banned from meeting more than one other person outdoors.

The email was sent by the Prime Minister's Principal Private Secretary Martin Reynolds to over a hundred employees in Number 10, including the Prime Minister's advisors, speechwriters and door staff.

In it, Mr Reynolds - a senior No 10 civil servant who has run Boris Johnson's private office since October 2019 - says:

"Hi all,

"After what has been an incredibly busy period it would be nice to make the most of the lovely weather and have some socially distanced drinks in the No10 garden this evening.

"Please join us from 6pm and bring your own booze!"

ITV News understands around 40 staff gathered in the garden that evening, eating picnic food and drinking. Crucially, they included the Prime Minister and his wife Carrie Johnson.

email.png

How very strange. You would think that he had an axe to grind. How many more "2020" stories are thought to be "breaking news" in 2022?
If someone's got a vendetta against Johnson, and are leaking stories as a result, then there'll be a continual supply of stories until either they run out and/or Johnson leaves office.
 

MikeWM

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If someone's got a vendetta against Johnson, and are leaking stories as a result, then there'll be a continual supply of stories until either they run out and/or Johnson leaves office.

Will it really change any minds at this point though? We already know there were multiple 'parties' - whether there was one more on top of those we already know about doesn't seem to actually change much. Law of diminishing returns.
 

Gloster

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People tend to forget and so if they don’t hear about a party for a while it moves to the back of their mind. Without periodic mentions of another party, after a while it becomes, “Oh, yes, there was something about parties, wasn’t there.” Headlines about yet another party before the news of the last one has faded is much more likely to add to a negative overall impression.
 

Xenophon PCDGS

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brad465

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A rather strange time to hold a "Christmas 2020" party as early as 20th May 2020...o_O
This thread was started when the first revelations emerged, which were about Christmas parties. Then we started getting leaks for lockdown parties in May 2020, but neither myself or a moderator has got round to changing it.
 

Nicholas Lewis

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Will it really change any minds at this point though? We already know there were multiple 'parties' - whether there was one more on top of those we already know about doesn't seem to actually change much. Law of diminishing returns.
Thats what BoJo is banking on but too many other people were doing the same in their own gardens so nothing will come of it. Labour as usually with loudmouth Rayner taking the lead are setting themselves up as having a vendetta here while they should be pursuing what matters to people now.
 

brad465

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Will it really change any minds at this point though? We already know there were multiple 'parties' - whether there was one more on top of those we already know about doesn't seem to actually change much. Law of diminishing returns.
If the story is gritty enough it will stick for a long time. I like to think Hancock's downfall will stick in people's minds in a very negative way for a long time, given how grotesque what he was exposed to have been doing was (Yes Johnson is guilty of similar but he seems to have some Teflon magic).
 

bramling

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Thats what BoJo is banking on but too many other people were doing the same in their own gardens so nothing will come of it. Labour as usually with loudmouth Rayner taking the lead are setting themselves up as having a vendetta here while they should be pursuing what matters to people now.

As I’ve said before, I think this is one of those stories which kind of does matter. Johnson already has the dubious distinction of being a PM who has presided over 150,000 deaths on his watch. Now to what extent these deaths were preventable is a matter for debate, but the fact is this nonetheless happened on Johnson’s watch.

Many of those will have been unable to see relatives during their final days, due to relatives following Covid measures - restrictions implemented by the government, one where by personal decree the buck stops with Johnson.

It simply stinks to find elements of the government weren’t following restrictions themselves, and it points to two potential issues. Either Johnson wasn’t aware of all these goings on, so incompetence, or worse if he was then it’s sheer arrogance. Johnson was always a risky choice as party leader / PM, and to some extent the jury has always been out on his suitability for the role. Even many Conservative voters had to take a bit of a deep breath over his leadership, indeed he only got it due to the party being in a mess and an absence of leadership talent.

This is why I think this does matter, because it’s confirming pre-existing fears that Johnson is incompetent and arrogant. Given the leaks are clearly coming from within it also points to his office being dysfunctional too. This is why I don’t think these stories are going to go away, and why ultimately I think they will contribute to his downfall, as they simply reinforce a view increasing numbers of people are already coming to - that Johnson is not a winner but a liability.

As we always say when this comes up, the only issue is there’s no obvious replacement in the waiting.
 

Xenophon PCDGS

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As I’ve said before, I think this is one of those stories which kind of does matter. Johnson already has the dubious distinction of being a PM who has presided over 150,000 deaths on his watch. Now to what extent these deaths were preventable is a matter for debate, but the fact is this nonetheless happened on Johnson’s watch.
Could we now see a country list of world-wide deaths due to Covid-19 world-wide in which the "top person" has presided over, starting with the highest death total.

Incidentally, who were the Prime Ministers of Britain at the time of the influenza pandemic that occurred at the end of the First World War and what was the statistical death toll.

Had this been in the 1930s, Stalin would have had quite a number of deaths during his tenure of office, but in his case, he had far more personal input into the causes of those deaths.
 

bramling

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If the story is gritty enough it will stick for a long time. I like to think Hancock's downfall will stick in people's minds in a very negative way for a long time, given how grotesque what he was exposed to have been doing was (Yes Johnson is guilty of similar but he seems to have some Teflon magic).

Hancock might well get away with it in the longer term, as he has expressed remorse (whether it’s genuine or not, is another matter of course).

Johnson meanwhile has had a strong smell of “I’m sorry you feel that way” and “I’m sorry but…”. So not really sorry at all.

His attitude was disgusting over Hillsborough, and he doesn’t seem to have changed since.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

Could we now see a country list of world-wide deaths due to Covid-19 world-wide in which the "top person" has presided over, starting with the highest death total.

Incidentally, who were the Prime Ministers of Britain at the time of the influenza pandemic that occurred at the end of the First World War and what was the statistical death toll.

Had this been in the 1930s, Stalin would have had quite a number of deaths during his tenure of office, but in his case, he had far more personal input into the causes of those deaths.

Quite simply, as Prime Minister it’s not unreasonable to be expected to behave with dignity and humility when 150,000 people have died.

As I said, it’s a matter for debate to what extent these deaths might have been preventable. What is less debatable, of course, is the government’s role in implementing restrictions which made the end-of-life circumstances for many of these people considerably worse, both for themselves and for their relatives.

Many people would have valued at least having the choice to visit their loved one, but that choice was not given to them, by means of government restrictions.

In that situation it’s simply untenable for the government to be seen to be treating its own measures as optional.

It also serves to confirm suspicions regarding certain undesirable Johnson characteristics. To be honest, he has always been a nasty piece of work, and has particular form for disrespecting dead people. He couldn’t keep his mouth shut over Hillsborough, and he did it to the Ladbroke Grove 165 driver too in a drivelsome Spectator piece.
 
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bspahh

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Its hard to get reconciliation, without truth, and that seems to be a problem for Johnson.
 

Xenophon PCDGS

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Its hard to get reconciliation, without truth, and that seems to be a problem for Johnson.
Are you really suggesting that Britain sets up something similar to the post-Aparthaid Truth and Conciliation Commission that was to examine really bad injustices that were committed.

For heavens sake, if you try to draw comparisons to social events that many people actually did in 2020 in Britain, then reality has really flown the roost, never to return.
 
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