How successful could multiple unit railtours be with the correct itinerary?

[WAO]

It seems to me that the priorities for a rail tour are comfort/food, ambience/interior, destinations and lastly traction. They are quite expensive and have to entertain wives as well.

A high density, 3+2 EMU, with a limited area of travel and capacity limited to 3/4 cars is unlikely to be a regular economic success. The 4CIG's were an opportunity missed (although they form much of the Brighton Belle) but we do have 4TC units. If a mark 3 EMU could be fitted with redundant HST 2+2 seating, tables and a food offering, then a route among the wires might be practicable, perhaps more so for a class 319. A class 769 (when it works) would make even more sense as it would have a wide range and much lower costs than anything locomotive hauled.

Preserved EMU's should look to battery adaptations on heritage lines where steam is not always necessary.

WAO

 

[zwk500]

Why would a thunderbird loco come into it. A train consisting of (say) 6 DMS DMU vehicles ( ie 3 power twins) only needs two vehicles ( the outer ones) to have the full safety equipment like GRSM, signalling safety systems etc) and ( probably) only four to have functioning motors. Assuming all 6 start with working engines, that’s a reasonable allowance for “ on the day” failures.

You need all the safety equipment to be functioning in at least the driving cab, before engines even come into it. If you've only got 2 units so fitted and 1 of them fails, you'd need to do some shunting to get a working cab on the leading end. Easy in some areas, possible in others but at a penalty of disruption. Utterly impossible in others. Effectively, you'd be running from the start with 1 failed unit, which is just making life harder for yourself.
As ever, it's a value judgement. The cost of installing the equipment in a couple of extra cabs (noting that paying somebody to do the same job twice at the same time is usually cheaper than paying somebody to come back later) vs the risk of an equipment failure in service and the resulting costs of that.

 

[Pigeon]

It seems to me that the priorities for a rail tour are comfort/food, ambience/interior, destinations and lastly traction. They are quite expensive and have to entertain wives as well.

Funny, it always seemed to me to be pretty much the other way round. First you have rateable traction, then an interesting route. Ambience/interior is whatever old Mk 1s are handy at the time, and food is either bring your own or some kind of portable outfit in the brake van. (Although it has to be said that when such an outfit did exist, it was always a vast improvement in terms of being a sizeable and satisfying bellyful for your money over the couple of mouthfuls for twice the money kind of offering you normally get on the railways.)

What's a "wife"? Some kind of baglet?

Or you could junk the requirement for rateable traction entirely and use the go-anywhere and easy-reversal characteristics of a unit to visit all the squirrely bits you'd never manage to run a loco-hauled tour down. These never got the publicity but they were a pretty good deal as long as you could stomach the stock.

 

[Ken H]

Funny, it always seemed to me to be pretty much the other way round. First you have rateable traction, then an interesting route. Ambience/interior is whatever old Mk 1s are handy at the time, and food is either bring your own or some kind of portable outfit in the brake van. (Although it has to be said that when such an outfit did exist, it was always a vast improvement in terms of being a sizeable and satisfying bellyful for your money over the couple of mouthfuls for twice the money kind of offering you normally get on the railways.)

What's a "wife"? Some kind of baglet?

Or you could junk the requirement for rateable traction entirely and use the go-anywhere and easy-reversal characteristics of a unit to visit all the squirrely bits you'd never manage to run a loco-hauled tour down. These never got the publicity but they were a pretty good deal as long as you could stomach the stock.

Didnt the Branch Line Society used to do buffer stop kissing tours?

 

[WAO]

Depends whether one looks at the enthusiast market or that of the general public, and which one pays better.

WAO

 

[JGurney]

use the go-anywhere and easy-reversal characteristics of a unit to visit all the squirrely bits you'd never manage to run a loco-hauled tour down.

Yes, for a short run down a freight branch the lack of toilets, etc, would be irrelevant. I went on one such from Southall down the Brentford branch a few years ago and seem to recall GWR quite recently ran a series of shuttles from West Drayton down the Poyle branch. Being short trips they would have some appeal both to locals and in some areas to tourists who just fancied seeing the area from an unusual perspective, as well as enthusiasts. E.g. would occasional MU trips like Lostwithiel - Fowey, Saltburn - Boulby or Skipton - Cracoe bring in people who would not call themselves enthusiasts but fancied a novel way of seeing the scenery?

 

[D6968]

Yes, for a short run down a freight branch the lack of toilets, etc, would be irrelevant. I went on one such from Southall down the Brentford branch a few years ago and seem to recall GWR quite recently ran a series of shuttles from West Drayton down the Poyle branch. Being short trips they would have some appeal both to locals and in some areas to tourists who just fancied seeing the area from an unusual perspective, as well as enthusiasts. E.g. would occasional MU trips like Lostwithiel - Fowey, Saltburn - Boulby or Skipton - Cracoe bring in people who would not call themselves enthusiasts but fancied a novel way of seeing the scenery?

Those trips you mention were with the GW Railmotor though, which was publicised in the enthusiast press and was a bit of a shindig for the GWS.
It really was a one off it’s the same as it’s trips between Liskeard and Looe (where you couldn’t alight and have a few hours around anyhow)
Are there any facilities for passengers to Alight on those lines you’ve mentioned anyway? It really wouldn’t appeal to me.

 

[JGurney]

Those trips you mention were with the GW Railmotor though, which was publicised in the enthusiast press and was a bit of a shindig for the GWS.
It really was a one off it’s the same as it’s trips between Liskeard and Looe (where you couldn’t alight and have a few hours around anyhow)
Are there any facilities for passengers to Alight on those lines you’ve mentioned anyway? It really wouldn’t appeal to me.

I didn't know there had been any railmotor trips (was that to Fowey?). The Brentford and Poyle branch ones were with contemporary DMU's, presumably not needed for their usual duties as these were on Sundays.
There are no platforms at Fowey quay or at Boulby works (don't know Cracoe) - the idea would be to see the line and surrounding scenery. There clearly would not be demand for regular services, but I wonder whether an occasional trip might attract a mixture of enthusiasts wanting to have been on the line, tourists staying in the area wanting to see the scenery and curious locals who fancy going on the railway through their area or taking the kids on it.

 

[Pigeon]

There has definitely been a 150 at Fowey, at least.

I'd be interested. Could also add the china clay line from Burngullow to the itinerary, if any of it's still there.

 

[colchesterken]

Has the Hastings unit only got one compliant cab?
When it came to visit us they turned it in Colchester Town on the East Gate triangle
I assume it was allowed to run to Clacton with the back cab leading as it is a low speed line

 

[43096]

Has the Hastings unit only got one compliant cab?
When it came to visit us they turned it in Colchester Town on the East Gate triangle
I assume it was allowed to run to Clacton with the back cab leading as it is a low speed line

No. The Hastings set is full compliant. Have a look here: Hastings Diesels Limited – About our train

As for your last sentence, there's no such exemption.

 

[D6130]

There are no platforms at Fowey quay or at Boulby works (don't know Cracoe) - the idea would be to see the line and surrounding scenery. There clearly would not be demand for regular services, but I wonder whether an occasional trip might attract a mixture of enthusiasts wanting to have been on the line, tourists staying in the area wanting to see the scenery and curious locals who fancy going on the railway through their area or taking the kids on it.

A short platform was constructed at Swinden Quarry back in the mid-1990s, with the intention of running special Class 156 trains from Skipton in connection with the Christmas Dickensian Festival in nearby Grassington. IIRC, these service ran for a couple of seasons, with vintage buses shuttling to and from Grassington, but I can't remember exactly which years. As part of the celebrations for anniversary of the 1847 arrival of the railway in Skipton, a series of four car class 156 specials operated from Skipton to Swinden Quarry three times a day on a couple of weekends in the Summer of 1997. However, since then, I'm pretty certain that the only specials to have traversed the branch have been full-length top-and-tailed loco-hauled trains organised by the well-known national railtour operators.