How successful could multiple unit railtours be with the correct itinerary?

[Townsend Hook]

Filling up an occasional charity trackbashing tour utilising in-service units doesn’t necessarily mean that enough work could be found to keep a hypothetical similar preserved unit running on the main line. With this BLS tour there are no route clearance or route/traction knowledge issues, and because it’s a charity tour the fare can be kept reasonable with (presumably) Merseyrail providing the traction at no cost and the crew donating their time. A tour with a preserved unit would have significantly higher costs to cover. The two scenarios really aren’t very comparable.

 

[theblackwatch]

Filling up an occasional charity trackbashing tour utilising in-service units doesn’t necessarily mean that enough work could be found to keep a hypothetical similar preserved unit running on the main line. With this BLS tour there are no route clearance or route/traction knowledge issues, and because it’s a charity tour the fare can be kept reasonable with (presumably) Merseyrail providing the traction at no cost and the crew donating their time. A tour with a preserved unit would have significantly higher costs to cover. The two scenarios really aren’t very comparable.

Very well put. Anyone who thinks otherwise has very little understanding of the charter train business.

 

[DarloRich]

Filling up an occasional charity trackbashing tour utilising in-service units doesn’t necessarily mean that enough work could be found to keep a hypothetical similar preserved unit running on the main line. With this BLS tour there are no route clearance or route/traction knowledge issues, and because it’s a charity tour the fare can be kept reasonable with (presumably) Merseyrail providing the traction at no cost and the crew donating their time. A tour with a preserved unit would have significantly higher costs to cover. The two scenarios really aren’t very comparable.

Agreed - You need more than a one off basher special to pay the bills associated with keeping an aging piece of machinery in safe operating condition.

Anyway: units zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz ( and bum achingly uncomfortable for anything beyond a short trip!)

 

[Y Ddraig Coch]

No toilets and no booze on one of my most loathed traction..... would be a punishment not pleasure!!

 

[StephenHunter]

The Hastings DEMU is doing just fine.

 

[XAM2175]

The Hastings DEMU is doing just fine.

The original thread was specific to EMUs, but that seems to have been lost in the move.

 

[Sean Emmett]

UKRT do tours with 395 Javelins over unusual routes, which seem to sell out.

They also used to do tours with SWT 159s for the general market, with free travel on SWT to join the tour. Did one Waterloo - Portsmouth for Isle of Wight. Not seen any since change to SWR. Happy to be corrected.

Southern Electric Group have done various tours with units. Did a 442 to Brighton and Weymouth etc.

Hastings unit already mentioned.

 

[DarloRich]

The Hastings DEMU is doing just fine.

Nice seats, toilets and catering v plastic horrible commuter train. Yeah, Like for like.

 

[172007]

Vintage trains have 3 x 3 car pacers. Now apparently they got them for a peppercorn cost from Porterbrook but they must have llans and think it's worth while to even store them at their site.

 

[Ken H]

i would go for an EMU tour round the North. A bimode would be better. a 769?

 

[43096]

Nice seats, toilets and catering v plastic horrible commuter train. Yeah, Like for like.

Quite. Against a 315 with awful seats, no toilets, no catering and no nice EE engines.

 

[StephenHunter]

Quite. Against a 315 with awful seats, no toilets, no catering and no nice EE engines.

The large guard's van of the 315 can hold a trolley.

 

[O L Leigh]

The large guard's van of the 315 can hold a trolley.

What guard’s van?

 

[StephenHunter]

The compartments surrounding the cab at either end. They didn't always work DOO.

 

[O L Leigh]

That’s not a guard’s van though. It’s just guard working from the back cab.

 

[StephenHunter]

The cab has space for a trolley, I would wager.

 

[43096]

The cab has space for a trolley, I would wager.

So where does the guard go?

I’d also suggest having a trolley on board is a pointless exercise as there’s no toilets. Not a good idea to be selling food and drink without such facilities.

I just love the lack of reality around the whole idea of 315s on railtours:
- no first class (which is required for almost all tours - it’s where the money is)
- 2+3 low back seating
- no toilets
- no catering
- 75mph limited
- really need 8 coaches to maximise revenue to offset fixed costs, otherwise ticket prices go up to the unaffordable level

It’s not a great sell for a day out, is it?

 

[RJ]

Given Class 455s successfully had Class 508 trailers installed, how hard would it be for a Class 315 to have a Class 317 trailer with a toilet installed?

I’m sure funds could be raised for the R&D, shuffling of equipment and other work that would have to be done.

Alternatively any tour could have toilet stops booked in every hour or so.

 

[zwk500]

Alternatively any tour could have toilet stops booked in every hour or so.

This suggestion really takes the biscuit. Even assuming there's a station with open facilities at the appropriate point, that is on a line with spare capacity, you won't get very far if you have to stop for 15 minutes in every hour to let people go to the loo.

 

[D365]

Given Class 455s successfully had Class 508 trailers installed, how hard would it be for a Class 315 to have a Class 317 trailer with a toilet installed?

I’m sure funds could be raised for the R&D, shuffling of equipment and other work that would have to be done.

Alternatively any tour could have toilet stops booked in every hour or so.

If the desire was really there. Why not just an entire 317/319/321?

 

[43096]

Alternatively any tour could have toilet stops booked in every hour or so.

Just think that through as to the practicalities of doing so.

It also does nothing to address the fundamental flaws of the idea I outlined above.

 

[yorksrob]

They'd be better off getting the VEP running on the mainline. Toilets, first class, the slam does would provide the novelty factor after fifteen years.

 

[DustyBin]

They'd be better off getting the VEP running on the mainline. Toilets, first class, the slam does would provide the novelty factor after fifteen years.

Agreed, or one of the other MK1 units although the VEP looks the best bet at this moment in time.

That said, the younger generation have only known slidy door things and to be fair even I grew up with them (alongside their slamdoor counterparts) so if done right I think a preserved 317 or 321 could work. The problem is nobody is talking about them, it’s all about a 315 which I’m all for but it does present some challenges as others have identified.

 

[Mat17]

If there were some first gen DMU railtours, I'd be well up for that.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Just find a way to couple the 315 to the Hastings DEMU and then the 315 bashers can have the best of both worlds....

 

[Bevan Price]

If there were some first gen DMU railtours, I'd be well up for that.

That would be an expensive project. All documentation for use on NR is probably well out of date. So, you would need to get route clearance, type approval, a driver with type & route knowledge (or a pilot driver). And finding paths on 90/100+ mph main lines for stock limited to 70 mph would not be easy. And, unlike steam trains which often haul at least 10 coaches - you would have to spread the cost between only 2,3 or 4 coach loads of passengers.

 

[Revilo]

Could the Swanage Railway units be used?

 

[py_megapixel]

I wouldn't be surprised if there's demand for Pendolino railtours at some point in the distant future

 

[AngusH]

I think that there is probably room for one or two, one of them being the Brighton Belle.

But that actually has luxury and catering in the original design and it is really quite beautiful inside.
It also seems to have some extremely serious backers, which will probably make the difference.

 

[StephenHunter]

Could the Swanage Railway units be used?

The 117 is due to be mainline certified for services to Wareham. The 4TC has been used for mainline tours hauled by their 33/2; I went on it from Waterloo back in 2019.