How much does your electric car add to your electricity bill?

[The Ham]

Not sure if it's a great benefit to those of us living in mainland Europe! For sure, one major issue with EVs is that the range simply isn't there. I visit Croatia once every couple of years, and it's just not realistic to do that journey by car if you can't maintain the current speed limits of 130-140km/h. I usually sit at 128/9km/h (80mph) with cruise control, so nothing excessive - but the typical journey (overnight break in Slovenia) involves 8 hour drives each day. I tend to take 30 minute breaks every 2-3 hours, which gives a total travel time of around 9.5-10 hours each day. If an EV meant that the same journey was to take 12 or more hours, it would be a nightmare.

Assuming they you average 80mph then that's about 640 miles a day (probably less, as there's likely to be some lower speed travel, however that will just give you a bit more spare range) assuming a car with a 300 mile range and 35 minutes to charge 100 miles (50kwh charger) that would require 8 hours of driving and about 2.5 hours charging.(2 hours 20 minutes would add about 400 miles, so a total of 700 miles to travel 640).

That leaves the overall journey time at about 10.5 hours, so not much slower than existing.

Even if you reduced your speed to increase the journey time by 30 minutes that would reduce your average speed from 80 to 75, however to get to over 12 hours your average speed would need to fall to below 67mph. Although it's a balance, dose allowing down increase range more than you could gain by charging.

Although it could be that how you drive changes, for instance some may decide to stop somewhere for a prolonged period of time and do something (for instance, as we're on a rail forum, visiting a tourist railway) whilst you charge your car. It may mean leaving a bit earlier and arriving a bit later, however doing a 3 hour drive arriving at 10:30, then leaving at 15:00 to then drive 3 hours to then stop for a meal before driving the last 2 hours arriving at 21:00 would be (for some) a nicer journey than leaving at 9 and arriving at 19:30.

Yes you'd be "out" for over 12 hours a day, however it wouldn't be nearly as stressful as "traveling" for that length of time.

Given that it's something which is done infrequently chances are there would be plenty of scope to find places to visit in that middle of the day slot.

It may not suit everyone, however for some it may be an option which allows then to make it work.

For others it maybe that they look at how much it costs, including an overnight stay, and decide that it's better for them to use public transport (i.e. rail to get there and then local buses when they are there), as 12 hours on a train means that the train only needs to average a little over 100mph and gains them a day each way. It may even be worth hiring a car for some of the time away from home.

Whilst 12 hours on a train on a day may not be to everyone's taste, the extra 2 days of time gained is likely to be attractive to some. In the same way that doing something for part of day each day, rather than wiping out two whole days each way for traveling may well appeal.

Sometimes being forced to reconsider how we do something can mean that it changes for the better.

For instance, my wife and I went to Guernsey for a holiday once. Lots of people fly then hire a car, we didn't. We used the buses and walked a fair amount. We walked bits of the coastal path which we may have just driven to get between two points, we spent about the same on the buses than the fuel that we would have needed (currently each bus trip cost would cost a couple about £1.10 using the smart card, which would need topping up in multiples of £5) let alone the car hire, we did everything that we wanted and we didn't have to stress about getting lost (just asked the driver to let us know when to get off for where we were going). Even things like not needing to worry about where we were going to park (or where we may need to park is the first place was full) or how much it was going to cost (and having the cash to pay for that) was quite a freedom

I don't recall that there was anything that we wanted to do that we couldn't do, even if there was it didn't spoil the holiday.

However it did highlight that sometimes making a change from how things are typically done can be possible and can lead to being able to do things which you might otherwise miss out on doing.

 

[redbutton]

Not sure if it's a great benefit to those of us living in mainland Europe! For sure, one major issue with EVs is that the range simply isn't there. I visit Croatia once every couple of years, and it's just not realistic to do that journey by car if you can't maintain the current speed limits of 130-140km/h. I usually sit at 128/9km/h (80mph) with cruise control, so nothing excessive - but the typical journey (overnight break in Slovenia) involves 8 hour drives each day. I tend to take 30 minute breaks every 2-3 hours, which gives a total travel time of around 9.5-10 hours each day. If an EV meant that the same journey was to take 12 or more hours, it would be a nightmare.

Assuming a 50kWh or better DC rapid charger at each rest stop, my Kia could make that journey in approximately the same time. At that speed my car would do about 250 miles from 100% to 0% but obviously you would never want to run it all the way down to zero, so you plan your route so that you get to the charge point with around 15-20% remaining (~200-210 miles traveled). Then spend 30-40 minutes charging up to 80% and set off again for another 160 miles down to 15-20% then repeat as needed. If you have a lot of suitable and reliable charging stations along the route then you can go down to 10%, or if you need a little more buffer than you can charge to 90% but that would add time because the charging speed gets cut in half above 80%.

If it were the summer and you kept it below 70mph, you would get 280-300miles of range to a full charge, so the above distances could be stretched proportionally.

If you want to try an EV route planning tool to see this all laid out visually, try abetterrouteplanner.com.

 

[37424]

Assuming a 50kWh or better DC rapid charger at each rest stop, my Kia could make that journey in approximately the same time. At that speed my car would do about 250 miles from 100% to 0% but obviously you would never want to run it all the way down to zero, so you plan your route so that you get to the charge point with around 15-20% remaining (~200-210 miles traveled). Then spend 30-40 minutes charging up to 80% and set off again for another 160 miles down to 15-20% then repeat as needed. If you have a lot of suitable and reliable charging stations along the route then you can go down to 10%, or if you need a little more buffer than you can charge to 90% but that would add time because the charging speed gets cut in half above 80%.

If it were the summer and you kept it below 70mph, you would get 280-300miles of range to a full charge, so the above distances could be stretched proportionally.

If you want to try an EV route planning tool to see this all laid out visually, try abetterrouteplanner.com.

You clearly have a longer range EV than me but for me despite only having my EV for 3 months I am seriously thinking of getting rid. If you only really do short short journeys then its fine, but in the current frequent near zero degrees weather of the past few weeks despite having a claimed range of 209 miles the range in this weather is down to about 120 to 130 in warmer weather its about 170 to 180. So in current weather what I would consider a mid distance journey of a round trip of about 150 miles isn't possible without charging.

Unless your in a Tesla the charging network is utter crap certainly in the North of England I have already experienced queuing at 4 motorway service stations over the past month, people are now buying Electric cars at a high rate and there are probably loads more delayed by the chip shortage but about the only recent chargers I've seen are at some new Starbucks coffee shops. You go to a motorway service station and if you are really lucky you might 4 chargers, although quite frequently its 2 or in the case of Tebay services southbound its none unless you have a Tesla. Given we are supposed to move to electric cars rapidly its frankly laughable. You have to leave a high margin in the battery for charging because of the number of chargers available, the possibility of queueing or the charger simply doesn't work. Then there is cost the majority of fast chargers are too expensive in my view, and that's before the government think of ways to claw back revenue lost in the switch to EV's

So for me I think I will getting rid of mine either for one with a much better range but that may be out of my price range especially now with the EV grant reduction, or possibly go back to self charging hybrid, which will be more expensive to run but it will be a lot less hassle.

 

[redbutton]

You clearly have a longer range EV than me but for me despite only having my EV for 3 months I am seriously thinking of getting rid. If you only really do short short journeys then its fine, but in the current frequent near zero degrees weather of the past few weeks despite having a claimed range of 209 miles the range in this weather is down to about 120 to 130 in warmer weather its about 170 to 180. So in current weather what I would consider a mid distance journey of a round trip of about 150 miles isn't possible without charging.

Unless your in a Tesla the charging network is utter crap certainly in the North of England I have already experienced queuing at 4 motorway service stations over the past month, people are now buying Electric cars at a high rate and there are probably loads more delayed by the chip shortage but about the only recent chargers I've seen are at some new Starbucks coffee shops. You go to a motorway service station and if you are really lucky you might 4 chargers, although quite frequently its 2 or in the case of Tebay services southbound its none unless you have a Tesla. Given we are supposed to move to electric cars rapidly its frankly laughable. You have to leave a high margin in the battery for charging because of the number of chargers available, the possibility of queueing or the charger simply doesn't work. Then there is cost the majority of fast chargers are too expensive in my view, and that's before the government think of ways to claw back revenue lost in the switch to EV's

So for me I think I will getting rid of mine either for one with a much better range but that may be out of my price range especially now with the EV grant reduction, or possibly go back to self charging hybrid, which will be more expensive to run but it will be a lot less hassle.

"Self-charging" hybrid is a myth. It just means it charges from petrol. If your daily driving is less than about 20-30 miles, consider a plug-in hybrid (PHEV).

I have a 70-plate Kia e-Niro with a 64kWh battery, it sounds like you're driving something with about 40kWh. Great for a city car, not so great for distance on the motorway.

I agree with you about the charging situation up north. I had a holiday up in the Peak District last summer and was glad to have as much range as I do. We ended up stringing a heavy-duty extension lead into the lodge through a window so I could top up to 100% the first night, then we didn't need to charge for the rest of the week. Some of the places we visited had slow chargers so I was able to plug in during our visit but I really didn't need to.

That said, the charge networks are building out. The terrible Ecotricity Electric Highway network has been bought out by Gridserve and they are upgrading every site to modern ABB units that allow two cars to use each post, doubling capacity. If you want a real vision of the future, check out the Gridserve Electric Forecourt in Braintree. Last I heard, Shell plan to put a rapid charging station at every petrol forecourt. BP Pulse have been doing that with BP forecourts. Even Tesla have been running a trial of allowing non-Teslas to use their stations in the Netherlands. So the future will only get better.

 

[Annetts key]

Driving a 22 year old 2.5ltr Volvo V70 that hates urban driving so much it returns me with 19mpg compared to the 38mpg I can average on a long motorway trip I've been considering electric or hybrid as a replacement (however it can't be a small car as I have a large dog - hence the V70 ). Seeing people quote full charges for around £16, or running costs for around £30 pm does make electric seem a way of saving money especially when petrol is £1.49 ltr so you can guess how much it's costing me to fill up the Volvo.

My Toyota Hybrid typically manages between 50 and 60MPG. Before I had the Hybrid, I had a Rover 214 that managed between 32MPG and 36MPG (average across a full to empty tank of fuel).

My main concern, which doesn't seem to get reported is battery life, and the costs of replacement long term. In 2017 I needed a taxi to the local hospital which was I think a nissan prya (sp) hybrid. In the conversation he let it slip that he had to replace the battery at a cost of £10000 (presumably inc labour). We all know that any battery, even lithium will at some point stop holding a charge, but there is no mention of the infrastructure in dealing with replacements, or how those exhausted lithium cells are / will be processed. EV's are being promoted as the green option, but if in 50 years time the world has a problem with lithium disposal then they could be just as harmful to the planet as petrol / diesel engines are. Given the age of my V70, which so far as passed its MOT every year and has around 170K miles on the clock, I wonder if these modern electric cars will have the same longevity or would you have had to replace the battery pack twice at the cost of £25K in that time, be that as a direct replacement cost, or spread over time as a lease on the battery.

In many cases, it is too early to be sure that the battery life quoted by manufacturers is realistic. In some cases, people are being ripped off.

For a Toyota Prius, I read that some dealers were quoting for a new battery and others were suggesting replacing only one or two cells in the battery which was much cheaper. I also read recently that a Chinese company is now offering a new battery for the Prius which is cheaper and half the weight of the original so has better mileage. Things may well change once the life of a typical battery is nearing its end.

Tesla repurposes its old vehicle batteries in Tesla Powerwalls for home use, I'm not sure what happens after that but research is going on and with the availability of lithium as it is likely there will develop a recycling economy for these batteries, but I think it is early days.

Battery life depends on a number of variables. Of course heavy users (which taxi drivers are, although a lot do drive hybrids) are more likely to require a new battery compared to other users/owners. And there will be ’scare’ stories in magazines and newspapers, because they help sell the magazines/newspapers.

I’ve owned my Toyota Hybrid from new, it’s now twelve years old and the original drive battery is fine. It is however on it’s second 12V SLA (sealed lead acid) battery.

With any series connected battery (more than one cell connected in series), best practice is to replace all of them at the same time. Mixing new cells with old results in the older, weakest (which will have a lower available capacity) being damaged by the other stronger cells forcing current through the weakest cell. This can seriously deplete its remaining capacity, and may cause it to vent, go short circuit or go open circuit.

Battery management system (BMS) and charge levelling/balancing systems can mitigate the problem, but can’t stop it.

I read an article a few days ago that quoted £15000 for new batteries, and depending on your usage this could be within next to no time, the less the electric car is used the quicker the battery cells die. 3-4 weeks of non use and not plugged in could damage the battery cells completely just through lack of use.

I’ve not experienced a problem with the drive battery in my Toyota Hybrid even though it sometimes does not get used for ten to fourteen days at a time. Then often stands for another ten to fourteen days. I do need to recharge the 12V SLA though.

Although at exhaust emissions are low, in any country where electricity is coal generated there is no benefit of emissions overall between an EV and small petrol car.

Not true, have you looked at how inefficient an ICE is? When compared to the overall combination of a good coal power station, the electricity network, the charging of the car drive battery, and the efficiency of the electric motor, it still makes it worthwhile even ignoring the reduction of local emissions in populated villages, towns and cities.

 

[redbutton]

Battery management system (BMS) and charge levelling/balancing systems can mitigate the problem, but can’t stop it.

That's true, but many drive battery packs like the one in your Toyota subdivide the cells into modules, so individual modules can be replaced with refurbished ones without replacing the whole pack. Especially with the early Toyota units, the car would report a "dead pack" but once you actually opened it up there was just corrosion around the internal connections pushing the cell voltages out of range. Clean the connections and the pack is good as new. Unfortunately, that kind of refurbishment is labour-intensive so many manufacturers (particularly Tesla) will only ever replace the whole pack, resulting in eye-watering repair bills. However, there's an entire industry springing up of independent technicians doing battery swaps and refurbishments. The old batteries either get reused in new packs or redeployed into grid-storage systems for demand shifting mains power. Either way, even a "dead" EV battery retains most of its value both in monetary and material terms.

 

[37424]

"Self-charging" hybrid is a myth. It just means it charges from petrol. If your daily driving is less than about 20-30 miles, consider a plug-in hybrid (PHEV).

I have a 70-plate Kia e-Niro with a 64kWh battery, it sounds like you're driving something with about 40kWh. Great for a city car, not so great for distance on the motorway.

I agree with you about the charging situation up north. I had a holiday up in the Peak District last summer and was glad to have as much range as I do. We ended up stringing a heavy-duty extension lead into the lodge through a window so I could top up to 100% the first night, then we didn't need to charge. Some of the places we visited had slow chargers so I was able to plug in during our visit but I really didn't need to.

That said, the charge networks are building out. The terrible Ecotricity Electric Highway network has been bought out by Gridserve and they are upgrading every site to modern ABB units that allow two cars to use each post, doubling capacity. Last I heard, Shell plan to put a rapid charging station at every petrol forecourt. BP Pulse have been doing that with BP forecourts. Even Tesla have been running a trial of allowing non-Teslas to use their stations in the Netherlands. So the future will only get better.

There's nothing mythical about a self charging Hybrid, yes they are petrol car generally with better fuel economy, mine averaged about 60mpg and should probably have stuck with it instead of going electric. The battery in mine is actually 50KW, as for Gridserve chargers I was at Wetherby services on Monday, I don't whether they were ABB but they looked fairly new and some had two CCS connectors, but despite a number of people trying they only worked one at a time, if you plugged the second one in it would go to standby and say waiting for sufficient power.

 

[redbutton]

There's nothing mythical about a self charging Hybrid, yes they are petrol car generally with better fuel economy, mine averaged about 60mpg and should probably have stuck with it instead of going electric. The battery in mine is actually 50KW, as for Gridserve chargers I was at Wetherby services on Monday, I don't whether they were ABB but they looked fairly new and some had two CCS connectors, but despite a number of people trying they only worked one at a time, if you plugged the second one in it would go to standby and say waiting for sufficient power.

That's strange, what should happen is the unit should split the available power between the two cars, so instead of the 150kW maximum for one, you would get 75kW for each. But maybe they haven't configured it to do that yet. It might be worth reporting that to Gridserve to see if that's the expected behaviour or not.

WRT self-charging hybrid, maybe it's a bit strong to call it a myth. You do get better fuel economy. But in my view it's highly misleading to call it an electric vehicle just because there's an electric component in the drivetrain. 100% of the fuel still comes from petroleum and they still have constant tailpipe emissions unlike PHEVs which can run in electric-only mode.

 

[Annetts key]

WRT self-charging hybrid, maybe it's a bit strong to call it a myth. You do get better fuel economy. But in my view it's highly misleading to call it an electric vehicle just because there's an electric component in the drivetrain. 100% of the fuel still comes from petroleum and they still have constant tailpipe emissions unlike PHEVs which can run in electric-only mode.

Before the marketing term ‘self-charging hybrid’ came about, a typical hybrid could run in either normal mode (using the ICE and/or the electric motor depending on the inputs seen by the control system, with it automatically changing mode as required, the driver just driving as normal), or on electric/battery only mode if their is enough energy in the battery and the driver selects EV mode. At least, that’s how it worked with the technology used by Toyota.

So yes, all energy comes from burning petrol. But there are not constant tail pipe emissions. And the combination of petrol engine and the battery/electric motor system increases overall efficiency, which reduces emissions.

Over the years, the capacity of the battery has varied both with the same model (but different year/version) as well as obviously different models. So the range available in EV mode will vary.

 

[37424]

That's strange, what should happen is the unit should split the available power between the two cars, so instead of the 150kW maximum for one, you would get 75kW for each. But maybe they haven't configured it to do that yet. It might be worth reporting that to Gridserve to see if that's the expected behaviour or not.

WRT self-charging hybrid, maybe it's a bit strong to call it a myth. You do get better fuel economy. But in my view it's highly misleading to call it an electric vehicle just because there's an electric component in the drivetrain. 100% of the fuel still comes from petroleum and they still have constant tailpipe emissions unlike PHEVs which can run in electric-only mode.

Well you don't have constant tail pipe emissions certainly not on the hybrid I had which was a Clio, up to about 30% of the time it could be in EV mode especially low speed around a built up areas, in fact on a 4 mile run to pick up the shopping which was slightly down hill outward and 30mph all the way I could could get it to run 90% electric if the battery was reasonably well charged, obviously the return journey was less being uphill, in fact it became a challenge to see if I could get it all the way on electric but didn't quite succeed but I did get very close one time.

 

[dgl]

The Ioniq hybrid also alllows for limited battery only operation if theer is charge in the pack.
Another thing a lot of Hybrids use are Atkinson Cycle engines, these are more efficient than regular engines but deliver less power per litre so aren't generally used in non-hybrid vehicles.

 

[AM9]

Well you don't have constant tail pipe emissions certainly not on the hybrid I had which was a Clio, up to about 30% of the time it could be in EV mode especially low speed around a built up areas, in fact on a 4 mile run to pick up the shopping which was slightly down hill outward and 30mph all the way I could could get it to run 90% electric if the battery was reasonably well charged, obviously the return journey was less being uphill, in fact it became a challenge to see if I could get it all the way on electric but didn't quite succeed but I did get very close one time.

But in your example, the battery would have much less charge when you arrived back home compared to when you left. So it had to be charged again, - by the petrol engine.

 

[Annetts key]

But in your example, the battery would have much less charge when you arrived back home compared to when you left. So it had to be charged again, - by the petrol engine.

Yes. However for a longer journey, it means that when the petrol engine does run, it can run at an efficient RPM, with any excess energy being used to recharge the battery. Then when it’s less efficient to run the petrol engine, the car runs using battery power.

 

[Giugiaro]

Even conventional power stations produce less CO2 per KWh than millions of ICVs.

Also because they use the energy generated by the burning of coal much more efficiently than IC engines since the power plants are using the thermal component of the reaction to (indirectly) extract the electric energy.
Some plants also use a two-cycle turbine system to use as much heat from the combustion and exhaust as possible.
IC engines, on the other hand, only use the gas expansion from the fuel/air mix combustion to extract its kinetic component, while the heat generated is vented away as "waste" (it can be partially used to heat the car and the windows).

 

[AM9]

Also because they use the energy generated by the burning of coal much more efficiently than IC engines since the power plants are using the thermal component of the reaction to (indirectly) extract the electric energy.
Some plants also use a two-cycle turbine system to use as much heat from the combustion and exhaust as possible.
IC engines, on the other hand, only use the gas expansion from the fuel/air mix combustion to extract its kinetic component, while the heat generated is vented away as "waste" (it can be partially used to heat the car and the windows).

In fact, in anything warmer than a mild day, some of the mechanical energy is wasted removing the excess heat from the engine, then the passenger compartment and ultimately, using mechanical or electric energy to run a mechanical heat pump, i.e. the air conditioning.

 

[37424]

That's strange, what should happen is the unit should split the available power between the two cars, so instead of the 150kW maximum for one, you would get 75kW for each. But maybe they haven't configured it to do that yet. It might be worth reporting that to Gridserve to see if that's the expected behaviour or not.

WRT self-charging hybrid, maybe it's a bit strong to call it a myth. You do get better fuel economy. But in my view it's highly misleading to call it an electric vehicle just because there's an electric component in the drivetrain. 100% of the fuel still comes from petroleum and they still have constant tailpipe emissions unlike PHEVs which can run in electric-only mode.

The way its marked out you couldn't charge 8 cars anyway 5 or 6 max, in any case how much use is even 8 chargers on a 30% conversion rate to electric cars and given the ban date that seems to need to happen fairly quickly.

 

[redbutton]

The way its marked out you couldn't charge 8 cars anyway 5 or 6 max, in any case how much use is even 8 chargers on a 30% conversion rate to electric cars and given the ban date that seems to need to happen fairly quickly.

Yeah I was at a motorway service area yesterday where Gridserve had upgraded the two posts and added a 7kW slow AC post, so the site could theoretically handle five cars, but there were still only two bays marked out with tons of hashed area either side, so only two cars could use the facility at a time. But bugs like that will be worked out. Right now they're focusing on replacing the existing 10-year-old Ecotricity equipment with the new stuff, then they say they will assess demand at each location and add posts as necessary.

Remember that the ban on new ICE-only engines in 2030 doesn't mean every new car will be battery electric. Toyota is testing the Mirai hydrogen fuel-cell saloon car, which is really promising tech if they can get the costs down. PHEVs will still be on the market until 2035. Plus, the ban only applies to new cars, so used cars will stay on the roads for as long as they can pass their MOTs. Given the right mix of regulation and market forces, 10 years is an eternity in the EV world. And if the worst case comes to pass, with driving being made less convenient and/or uneconomical, then people will be pushed back toward public transport.

 

[37424]

Yeah I was at a motorway service area yesterday where Gridserve had upgraded the two posts and added a 7kW slow AC post, so the site could theoretically handle five cars, but there were still only two bays marked out with tons of hashed area either side, so only two cars could use the facility at a time. But bugs like that will be worked out. Right now they're focusing on replacing the existing 10-year-old Ecotricity equipment with the new stuff, then they say they will assess demand at each location and add posts as necessary.

Remember that the ban on new ICE-only engines in 2030 doesn't mean every new car will be battery electric. Toyota is testing the Mirai hydrogen fuel-cell saloon car, which is really promising tech if they can get the costs down. PHEVs will still be on the market until 2035. Plus, the ban only applies to new cars, so used cars will stay on the roads for as long as they can pass their MOTs. Given the right mix of regulation and market forces, 10 years is an eternity in the EV world. And if the worst case comes to pass, with driving being made less convenient and/or uneconomical, then people will be pushed back toward public transport.

I don't think many people will like that including myself.

 

[jon0844]

I strongly suspect Toyota will give up on hydrogen for cars and focus on larger vehicles, having now announced the building of a number of EV cars.

 

[37424]

I strongly suspect Toyota will give up on hydrogen for cars and focus on larger vehicles, having now announced the building of a number of EV cars.

Either way the EV charging infrastructure needs to be a 1000 times better over the next 10 years.

 

[jon0844]

Either way the EV charging infrastructure needs to be a 1000 times better over the next 10 years.

Councils do need to step up. Some have and where they have, it has really boosted EV ownership. So far our council has done virtually nothing, unless you should be impressed that they've gone from two in the town centre to about ten or perhaps 12. And all in one place.

 

[Cloud Strife]

Assuming a 50kWh or better DC rapid charger at each rest stop, my Kia could make that journey in approximately the same time. At that speed my car would do about 250 miles from 100% to 0% but obviously you would never want to run it all the way down to zero, so you plan your route so that you get to the charge point with around 15-20% remaining (~200-210 miles traveled). Then spend 30-40 minutes charging up to 80% and set off again for another 160 miles down to 15-20% then repeat as needed. If you have a lot of suitable and reliable charging stations along the route then you can go down to 10%, or if you need a little more buffer than you can charge to 90% but that would add time because the charging speed gets cut in half above 80%.

If it were the summer and you kept it below 70mph, you would get 280-300miles of range to a full charge, so the above distances could be stretched proportionally.

If you want to try an EV route planning tool to see this all laid out visually, try abetterrouteplanner.com.

Thanks, I'll have a play with that route planning tool. A quick look now, and it seems that the first part of the journey (Wrocław-Cakovec) is doable and reasonable, with two charging stops in Vyskov and Mosonmagyarovar, both of which are reasonable places to take a half hour break regardless.

It's the second part of the journey that comes off much worse, as the Croatian motorways allow you to make a significant amount of progress quickly. Stopping for 35-40 minutes every 2 hours is just frustrating. I normally do Cakovec-Split with one good stop for 30-45 minutes around halfway. It seems that this is only really possible by limiting your speed to 100km/h, which would be mind-crushingly dull on much of the route.

My other concern is how EVs handle summer journeys with air conditioning. It's nothing unusual for a summer run to Croatia to feature temperatures of 25c and above, so the air conditioning normally runs constantly.

 

[37424]

Councils do need to step up. Some have and where they have, it has really boosted EV ownership. So far our council has done virtually nothing, unless you should be impressed that they've gone from two in the town centre to about ten or perhaps 12. And all in one place.

But its not just councils, Motorway service stations need to step up vastly, Garages need to step up. near me the nearest BP pulse charger is stuck in a pub car park from the days before BP tuck over Polar, meanwhile a brand new BP garage was built half a mile away recently but does it have any chargers no, now ok the garage isn't owned by BP but they need to be encouraging the garage owners to put them in. Starbucks have some chargers in some of there newer Starbucks, but they to be getting such as McDonalds to do the same especially those that are near major routes, then there the nonsense of having to pay parking chargers on fast chargers in some car parks, that's ridiculous do you have to pay a parking charge to fill up at a Petrol Pump? no you don't so why do you have to pay to charge your car at a fast charger the 1st hour which is all most people need should be free in that situation, sure if its a slow charger and your going to there a while and not perhaps specifically there just to charge, fair enough but a fast charger is the nearest equivalent to petrol pump and you shouldn't be charged just to gain access to it.

 

[BananaRepublic]

A large Shell filling station, not far away from here, underwent a complete 6 month rebuild recently.
Everything demolished and removed, with a completely new filling station built on the site.
There are 18 petrol/diesel pump positions, but they only installed a solitary 50kW charging point, tucked away in the corner.

The local council patted themselves on the back in 2021, for installing 4 puny 7kW charging points at 3 council owned sites in the borough. All out of the way.

We’re in south Hampshire.
Loads of destination chargers, many on private sites, but almost all 50kW and lower capacity and many are 7kW.
We are yet to see anything above 100kW and from Zap Map, we don’t appear to be well served at the present time.
Despite this, EV ownership appears to be growing rapidly. You see lots of them everywhere.
Gridserve, Ionity, et al would do well to look at the very busy road corridors ( M3, M27, A3M, A31, A34, A35 etc,) around the “Solent City” region.

 

[Spaceflower]

How efficient are the batteries on these typically?

 

[37424]

The Weather was much milder yesterday about 11 degrees and the range on my car was holding up much better, at that temp and above its not too bad but near zero it does drop off badly. A relative has an MG ZS according to him the range drop off isn't as bad on his car.

 

[Ediswan]

Yet another radio phone in on EVs today. Mostly the usual points made. There were two points which are new to me. Can anybody comment from practical experience ?

First, that public charging points have a failure mode whereby they refuse to release the mechanical lock on the charging cable, thus leaving the vehicle attached until the operator of the charging point fixes the problem.

Second, that opening or closing a vehicle door will terminate the charging process. That got me thinking, if you are fast charging in bad weather, at a location with no shelter, can you stay in the vehicle while it is charging ?

 

[37424]

Yet another radio phone in on EVs today. Mostly the usual points made. There were two points which are new to me. Can anybody comment from practical experience ?

First, that public charging points have a failure mode whereby they refuse to release the mechanical lock on the charging cable, thus leaving the vehicle attached until the operator of the charging point fixes the problem.

Second, that opening or closing a vehicle door will terminate the charging process. That got me thinking, if you are fast charging in bad weather, at a location with no shelter, can you stay in the vehicle while it is charging ?

Mine is set to do a drivers door unlock without affecting the charging session, if you do a full unlock then its set to stop charging. As yet I haven't come across a public charger which has refused to stop charging when asked, although one didn't stop using the touch screen, but it stopped via the app.

 

[skyhigh]

First, that public charging points have a failure mode whereby they refuse to release the mechanical lock on the charging cable, thus leaving the vehicle attached until the operator of the charging point fixes the problem.

I've never had that problem before.

Second, that opening or closing a vehicle door will terminate the charging process.

Doesn't happen on my car, the only way to stop the charge from the vehicle is to press the button to release the charge cable. You can do whatever you like with locking or unlocking doors.

 

[Annetts key]

I’ve just watched a YouTube video where the owner of a MG ZS streamed a video while sat in it waiting for it to charge from a 7kW (I think) charging point in a retail park. He obviously started it going before getting in it. And even had the electric seat heating on.