Northern Rail 48 hour strike called

[northwichcat]

Members of the RMT union working for Northern Rail have proposed to take industrial action on Monday 27 and Tuesday 28 December.

It is not currently known what effect this will have on Northern Rail services on these dates. Details of ticket acceptance with other operators or refund arrangements are also not yet know. Customers intending to travel on these dates should check their journey details closer to the time of travel.

http://ht.ly/3s1nc

The action is because the union want the staff to get additional pay for the 27 and 28th as they are bank holidays. While Northern say the union traded in bank holidays to receive pay rises and additional benefits and staff already have the 25th and 26th off.

 

[ANorthernGuard]

Members of the RMT union working for Northern Rail have proposed to take industrial action on Monday 27 and Tuesday 28 December.

It is not currently known what effect this will have on Northern Rail services on these dates. Details of ticket acceptance with other operators or refund arrangements are also not yet know. Customers intending to travel on these dates should check their journey details closer to the time of travel.

http://ht.ly/3s1nc

The action is because the union want the staff to get additional pay for the 27 and 28th as they are bank holidays. While Northern say the union traded in bank holidays to receive pay rises and additional benefits and staff already have the 25th and 26th off.

The union traded 6 bank holidays

these extra HAVE NOT been agreed to

all we want is a fair wage for these 2 EXTRA bank holidays

Ian Bevan & Co. are distorting the truth quite wildly, at one stage they claimed Northern negotiated about the 6 days back in 03, one little prob Northern took over in 05

we are not greedy, we just want a fair wage which is akin to working a bank holiday

and I am sorry about the disruption but Northern have gone 1 step too far

Morale is at an all time low and people just want to see some light at the end of the tunnel, at the moment all we see is darkness

so please guys/gals support us in this action, I personally know it will be a pain in the rear for travellers that day but this HAS to happen (unless Northern realise we are not just CHEAP personnel, but highly qualified professionals who in the majority of cases do our job extremely well with the ancient stock we have to work with)

 

[northwichcat]

The union traded 6 bank holidays

these extra HAVE NOT been agreed to

I assume you'd be happy to work 25th and 26th December, which are NOT bank holidays this year?

As has been mentioned numerous times in other threads and forums the 27th December and 28th December are substitute days for the 25th and 26th December which fall on a weekend. Everyone gets 8 bank holidays this year but some Northern employees are arguing they are entitled to 10.

 

[route:oxford]

I assume you'd be happy to work 25th and 26th December, which are NOT bank holidays this year?

As has been mentioned numerous times in other threads and forums the 27th December and 28th December are substitute days for the 25th and 26th December which fall on a weekend. Everyone gets 8 bank holidays this year but some Northern employees are arguing they are entitled to 10.

Everyone?

Won't Scotrail staff get 9 days like everyone else in Scotland?

 

[therearcab]

The union traded 6 bank holidays

these extra HAVE NOT been agreed to

all we want is a fair wage for these 2 EXTRA bank holidays

Oh dear, someone on a healthy salary who doesn't know how bank holidays in this country work and there's all these talented graduates who can't get £12,000 a year.

Ian Bevan & Co. are distorting the truth quite wildly, at one stage they claimed Northern negotiated about the 6 days back in 03, one little prob Northern took over in 05

I think you'll find First North Western agreed the terms in 2003 and Northern later agreed the same terms with the former Arriva Trains Northern conductors but haven't to date agreed the same terms for drivers.

I am sorry about the disruption but Northern have gone 1 step too far

If one step too far is sticking to the agreed contract terms then I hate to think what your reaction would be if they did like a lot of office based companies and failed to pay you or give you time back for overtime.

 

[ANorthernGuard]

I assume you'd be happy to work 25th and 26th December, which are NOT bank holidays this year?

As has been mentioned numerous times in other threads and forums the 27th December and 28th December are substitute days for the 25th and 26th December which fall on a weekend. Everyone gets 8 bank holidays this year but some Northern employees are arguing they are entitled to 10.

The 25th & 26th were agreed in the CRI regardless of what days they fall on the company at the time (First) agreed to that, this company (Northern) AGREED to that

these have not been agreed to

read the CRI it states ir CLEARLY

drivers sold their entitlement on their last pay deal

that is the only difference

 

[northwichcat]

Everyone?

Won't Scotrail staff get 9 days like everyone else in Scotland?

Well everyone working in the Northern area gets 8 days.

 

[ANorthernGuard]

Oh dear, someone on a healthy salary who doesn't know how bank holidays in this country work and there's all these talented graduates who can't get £12,000 a year.



I think you'll find First North Western agreed the terms in 2003 and Northern later agreed the same terms with the former Arriva Trains Northern conductors but haven't to date agreed the same terms for drivers.



If one step too far is sticking to the agreed contract terms then I hate to think what your reaction would be if they did like a lot of office based companies and failed to pay you or give you time back for overtime.

Do you actually know what you are talking about???

have you read the CRI???

 

[northwichcat]

The 25th & 26th were agreed in the CRI regardless of what days they fall on the company at the time (First) agreed to that, this company (Northern) AGREED to that

these have not been agreed to

read the CRI it states ir CLEARLY

drivers sold their entitlement on their last pay deal

that is the only difference

You're claiming they are additional bank holidays which you want extra pay for. The official government information here clearly states that they are NOT additional bank holidays. You may recall conductors worked on the 27th last year with no extra pay despite it being a substitute day for a bank holiday. If Northern breached the contract then why did it take the staff and union almost 12 months to notice, especially considering the RMT are usually extremely quick to jump on anything like that?

 

[boing_uk]

I for one will not support this strike, in the same way as I do not support ANY strike, as the railway unions seem to use it as a weapon against the railway operators far too often, when a dispute like this gets to this stage.

I've been in Unison and have crossed pickets when local government officers have been out on strike.

One thing though... how much does going on strike cost northern staff financially in relation to what they will gain by the pay for these extra two days?

This is a pay dispute and quite frankly it is selfish. Striking is not negotiation; it is blackmail, using us passengers as ammunition.

 

[ANorthernGuard]

You're claiming they are additional bank holidays which you want extra pay for. The official government information here clearly states that they are NOT additional bank holidays. You may recall conductors worked on the 27th last year with no extra pay despite it being a substitute day for a bank holiday. If Northern breached the contract then why did it take the staff and union almost 12 months to notice, especially considering the RMT are usually extremely quick to jump on anything like that?

from what I can gather talks have been going on for months, Northern have taken the hump because harmonisation got thrown out (I actually voted for it btw), it comes down to a very simple argument...what has been agreed in the CRI previously, regardless of whatever the gov says (and we all know how they love the railways) it states the terms clearly 25th & 26th have already been agreed to these two days are classed as extra as the 25th & 26th were a done deal, Northern know this, but all they can do now is blame the guards, i'm sorry Mr Bevan but this time you are very very wrong

 

[MidnightFlyer]

For general info on the way this affects servoixces, this is on the Northern website:

As a result, Northern will operate a revised timetable from around 9am until 6pm on both days, on the following routes:

Merseyside:
•Liverpool – Wigan
Greater Manchester:
•Wigan – Bolton – Manchester Victoria
•Manchester Victoria– Rochdale
•Manchester Piccadilly– Glossop
•Manchester Piccadilly– Marple
•Manchester Piccadilly– Manchester Airport
Lancashire
•Blackburn – Preston
•Lancaster – Morecambe
Cumbria
•Barrow – Workington
North East
•Newcastle – Morpeth
•Newcastle – Hexham - Carlisle
•Newcastle – Middlesbrough
•Middlesbrough – Newcastle
Yorkshire
•Hull – Bridlington
•Hull – Doncaster – Sheffield
•Sheffield – Barnsley – Leeds
•Leeds – Bradford - Halifax
•Leeds – Skipton
•Leeds – Ilkley
•Leeds – Harrogate – Knaresborough
•Leeds – Doncaster
•Barton-on-Humber - Cleethorpes

Maybe the most interesting thing:

The train operator said it was very disappointed that the union had called for strike action after more than 60% of the 976 balloted employees voted against the action or abstained.

Matt

 

[northwichcat]

Reported on another forum that the majority of conductors didn't vote. 601 did vote and 361 of them voted for industrial action.

 

[ANorthernGuard]

Reported on another forum that the majority of conductors didn't vote. 601 did vote and 361 vote for industrial action.

Liverpool abstained due to row between them and the RMT on a seperate issue

Majority who voted yes (hearsay etc etc was the Mcr depots)

Havent a clue about the Eastern as their t&C are different

BUT as the company have been sending out numerous texts to conductors trying to scare them it isnt surprising
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Reported on another forum that the majority of conductors didn't vote. 601 did vote and 361 of them voted for industrial action.

so how can the majority NOT vote when we have approx 1000 guards???

1000 - 601 = 399

 

[bnm]

You are having a laugh if you want any support from me and fellow passengers. Rank opportunism by Commie Bob and his cronies to find a sneaky workaround for the agreement on Bank Holidays signed in 2003.

My support is 100% with Serco-NedRailways on this one. Especially as the vote showed 60% of those balloted to be either not in favour of the action or abstained. Only 361 conductors out of a total ballot of 976 voted in favour of strike action. A militant minority holding the company to ransom and giving a bad name to all those who were prepared to work. Shame on you.

 

[ANorthernGuard]

I for one will not support this strike, in the same way as I do not support ANY strike, as the railway unions seem to use it as a weapon against the railway operators far too often, when a dispute like this gets to this stage.

I've been in Unison and have crossed pickets when local government officers have been out on strike.

One thing though... how much does going on strike cost northern staff financially in relation to what they will gain by the pay for these extra two days?

This is a pay dispute and quite frankly it is selfish. Striking is not negotiation; it is blackmail, using us passengers as ammunition.

yep something we use very often...last time on strike approx 9 years ago (we do this so often you know)

 

[tbtc]

Reported on another forum that the majority of conductors didn't vote. 601 did vote and 361 of them voted for industrial action.

So about a third of Guards vote in favour, because they won't get paid bank holiday rates for a day which isn't a bank holiday, yet we all suffer?

When Guards strike over train safety (etc) then they have my support. When they strike over not getting something they aren't entitled to (at a time when council staff in Yorkshire are being asked to take 5% pay cuts and lose sick pay).... I can't support this strike.

 

[YorkshireRider]

EC are paying me double time for 28th, not sure about 27th as im not working that day, dont see why Northern staff should not get it as well

 

[ANorthernGuard]

So about a third of Guards vote in favour, because they won't get paid bank holiday rates for a day which isn't a bank holiday, yet we all suffer?

When Guards strike over train safety (etc) then they have my support. When they strike over not getting something they aren't entitled to (at a time when council staff in Yorkshire are being asked to take 5% pay cuts and lose sick pay).... I can't support this strike.

ermmmm yes we ARE entitled to hence previous agreements, Northern are the ones twisting this time, this has been building for a long time, yes I do feel the timing could be better..HOWEVER, when is there ever a good time to call a strike, Northern guards are the lowest paid in the country (was TPE but they have made a reasonable deal) the fact is these days ARE NOT covered by any agreement and Northern have made no effort to come to an agreement and the majority of staff who voted or abstained feel like we are 2nd class citizens to the higher management NOW if Mr Bevan and the other directors are out working trains on the 2 days in question they may just get some respect back...but can you really see that happening???
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

ANorthernGuard, I wouldn't waste your breath. As in other threads, the Forum Mafia are going to combine against a lone voice, and if other threads are anything to go by, the next stage will be insults and abuse - look at what happened to Bel.

G

let them bring it on

there are too many facts

1. The CRI (which might as well be the bible in this argument)

2. I have very thick skin lol

 

[bnm]

No, it's called using the internet and some contacts in the industry to find out as much information as possible, from both sides of the fence, before making a judgement as to where I stand.

You asked for support for the Northern staff and I explained why I'm not giving it. Jibes about what publications I read don't do your position any favours. Greeny was right about the insults and abuse. Okay a dig about what I read is only a small insult but nice to see the first one coming from the pro-strike side.

You asked someone else whether they had read the CRI. Perhaps you can provide us with a copy of this document as it is obviously very important to your side of the argument. If not then I, and others who disagree with the strike, cannot really be expected to change our position.

Would be nice to know also why the membership didn't have a ballot on this issue last year. Perhaps because only one of these substitute Bank Holidays was involved then on 28th.

 

[ANorthernGuard]

No, it's called using the internet to find out as much information as possible, including reading the CRIfrom both sides of the fence, before making a judgement as to where I stand.

You asked for support for the Northern staff and I explained why I'm not giving it. Jibes about what publications I read don't do your position any favours.

You asked someone else whether they had read the CRI. Perhaps you can provide us with a copy of this document as it is obviously very important to your side of the argument. If not then I, and others who disagree with the strike, cannot really be expected to change our position.

Would be nice to know also why the membership didn't have a ballot on this issue last year. Perhaps because only one of these substitute Bank Holidays was involved then on 28th.

definitly a Daily Mail reader, a copy of the CRI is found at every depot im sure with all your contacts you can get copies of the East & Wests copies and explain to everyone what days were bargained/sold, if you did you would find that the West side bargained 6, the east side bargained 7 in approx 2002/2003 as the 25th/26th are not worked anyway regardless of year the 27/28 make 2 ADDITIONAL days, now i'm sorry to burst your bubble in FGW land but it was actually FIRSTGROUP who agreed to it, every toc has a different agreement it is just coincidental that 2 different CRI's are actually very similar agreement wise

 

[leedstraindude]

Here here to the northern guards who have decided to make a stand.

 

[route:oxford]

Majority who voted yes (hearsay etc etc was the Mcr depots)

How would anyone know who voted for what?

Surely the ballot is done in secret, or are rail unions operated differently from Amicus?

 

[ANorthernGuard]

How would anyone know who voted for what?

Surely the ballot is done in secret, or are rail unions operated differently from Amicus?

hence hearsay etc etc, also it is common knowledge Lime st guards refused to vote and as I know and have worked with the majority of guards at the Mcr depots I get to hear alot (true or not)

 

[scotsman]

The action is because the union want the staff to get additional pay for the 27 and 28th as they are bank holidays. While Northern say the union traded in bank holidays to receive pay rises and additional benefits and staff already have the 25th and 26th off.

Pure spin. As has been already said, they didn't trade in for THOSE bank holidays.

You are having a laugh if you want any support from me and fellow passengers. Rank opportunism by Commie Bob and his cronies to find a sneaky workaround for the agreement on Bank Holidays signed in 2003.

My support is 100% with Serco-NedRailways on this one. Especially as the vote showed 60% of those balloted to be either not in favour of the action or abstained. Only 361 conductors out of a total ballot of 976 voted in favour of strike action. A militant minority holding the company to ransom and giving a bad name to all those who were prepared to work. Shame on you.

Lovely word choice there. It's almost as if you're trying to imply that their actions are illegal? 40% is a minority in the technical sense only. You should note that a larger majority didn't vote for this Government, damn democracy.
These guys are taking a large risk by going on strike, there's no guarantee they'll even get these bank holidays.

Well done to all the Guards who are standing up for themselves and ignoring the scaremongering texts that the management have been sending.

 

[boing_uk]

yep something we use very often...last time on strike approx 9 years ago (we do this so often you know)

So what about the threatened strikes of 2009 then?

I'm sorry but you are using passengers as ammunition in a dispute that is over a petty amount of cash, half of which you will lose by striking anyway.

 

[ANorthernGuard]

Pure spin. As has been already said, they didn't trade in for THOSE bank holidays.



Lovely word choice there. It's almost as if you're trying to imply that their actions are illegal? 40% is a minority in the technical sense only. You should note that a larger majority didn't vote for this Government, damn democracy.
These guys are taking a large risk by going on strike, there's no guarantee they'll even get these bank holidays.

Well done to all the Guards who are standing up for themselves and ignoring the scaremongering texts that the management have been sending.

We probably won't, but at least we have made a stand, its not just about a few quid its about alot of things that have built up over the last few years, maybe it won't change a thingbut unless we try we will never know

 

[Mvann]

Don't have a problem with them getting bank holiday pay for the 27th and 28th but are they all going to take the 25th and 26th either as holiday or day off. I have to use holiday days up if Xmas is over a weekend.

 

[route:oxford]

hence hearsay etc etc, also it is common knowledge Lime st guards refused to vote and as I know and have worked with the majority of guards at the Mcr depots I get to hear alot (true or not)

When instead they are hopping on-line and voting.

(or filling in the form and posting it).

 

[bnm]

Lovely word choice there. It's almost as if you're trying to imply that their actions are illegal? 40% is a minority in the technical sense only. You should note that a larger majority didn't vote for this Government, damn democracy.

No suggestion on my part of any illegality. However if you choose to infer that from my post then so be it. To me, 40% is a minority in any sense (technical or otherwise) what with it being less than half. I mostly agree about the Government bit, although the analogy is a little flawed. A combination of the votes of the Conservatives and LibDems produces a percentage of around 59%. But it's highly unlikely that all of that 59% voted for a coalition. Even then you have to consider all those (some 35%) who abstained, i.e. didn't vote. I am one of those that want to see some form of PR in our Westminster elections. I'd also like to see strike ballots required to have a majority in favour of industrial action for them to be legitimate. Attempting to legitimise a minority result in strike ballots by inference as to which side of the fence those abstaining are on is disingenuous.