Could East-West Rail (EWR) be electrified?

[59CosG95]

Have a look at the industrial estate next to the "Banbury" line next to the A44 Woodstock Road bridge

Ah yes, off Cassington Road.

 

[Mikey C]

Nothing mentioned today, but then it wouldn't make sense politically, as it would look like money had been taken from the north to spend on electrification in the south!

 

[59CosG95]

Nothing mentioned today, but then it wouldn't make sense politically, as it would look like money had been taken from the north to spend on electrification in the south!

Indeed - with the amount of egg already on the North's face with the scaling back of HS2's eastern leg to Leeds, it would've been very embarrassing for Bojo et al, on top of all else they've had going on lately!

 

[Wyrleybart]

Plus - you never know, Didcot - Oxford may be announced soon too...

Was it ever unannounced ?
There was the story that a load of Furrer & Frey as sold for scrap, but was that for Chippenham - Bristol, or Filton - Bristol, or was it actually Didcot - Oxford.

There should be in information request into what happened, particularly if it was tax payers money, or more importantly if there was any truth in it.

 

[59CosG95]

Was it ever unannounced ?
There was the story that a load of Furrer & Frey as sold for scrap, but was that for Chippenham - Bristol, or Filton - Bristol, or was it actually Didcot - Oxford.

There should be in information request into what happened, particularly if it was tax payers money, or more importantly if there was any truth in it.

It could have been any combination of those three. The steelwork is fairly standardised, so depending on individual x-section designs for a structure (or pair of structures), they could've gone anywhere.

 

[zwk500]

Was it ever unannounced ?
There was the story that a load of Furrer & Frey as sold for scrap, but was that for Chippenham - Bristol, or Filton - Bristol, or was it actually Didcot - Oxford.

There should be in information request into what happened, particularly if it was tax payers money, or more importantly if there was any truth in it.

Hanging on to the steelwork with no firm date for it's use could well have cost the taxpayer more in having to store and secure it than it does to sell for scrap to recover a little bit and then buy new when you need it again.

 

[oxfordrelayer]

There happens to be a Nat Grid feeder ("East Claydon") is helpfully located adjacent to the former Met. Granborough Road station that will feed HS2 and has spare capacity after that. Just 3/4 of mile along the old railway alignment to the former Verney Jn if you were looking to feed EWR...
(The HS2 feed is along the other direction of the former Met line alignment towards Quainton then straight lining the last bit to HS2)

400 kV substation at Cowley and the 400kV line runs along side the railway in Kennington - Hinksey and goes into tunneled cables next to Hinksey Yard (with isolators...)
132 kV substation at Yarnton Just North of Wolvercote Jn which is why there is interest in electrifying to Hanborough as it provides the feed and electrifies

Theres two seperate cables at Kennington- one runs along the fence line and the other along the path of the old goods loop ( which should be reinstated in 8 years) Think there will be a programme of works which will go something like this - Upgrade the THA- OLE didcot to Oxford north- Upgrade oxford station north- OLE East West

 

[59CosG95]

Theres two seperate cables at Kennington- one runs along the fence line and the other along the path of the old goods loop ( which should be reinstated in 8 years) Think there will be a programme of works which will go something like this - Upgrade the THA- OLE didcot to Oxford north- Upgrade oxford station north- OLE East West

THA? Is that the Thames Valley??

 

[The Planner]

THA? Is that the Thames Valley??

Kennington to Cowley. Its the ELR.

 

[The Ham]

In answer to the question, quite probably.

As according to this article:

Network Rail looks to build out from East West Rail | New Civil Engineer

The East West Rail (EWR) programme between Oxford and Cambridge is currently under construction by a specially created entitity East West Railway Co (EWR

www.newcivilengineer.com

Electrification of the route to offer better rolling stock performance, align with the Traction Decarbonisation Network Strategy (TDNS) and contribute to the decarbonisatoin of the rail network

From a longer list:

It sets out Network Rail’s EWML principle aims, which are:

Passenger services covering a wider geographic area than currently remitted

Ensuring that EWR’s infrastructure changes do not preclude the potential of future service to additional locations

An appropriate service frequency and pattern to best reduce journey times

Ensuring the EWR’s infrastructure changes do not preclude exploration of new national routing options for freight

Electrification of the route to offer better rolling stock performance, align with the Traction Decarbonisation Network Strategy (TDNS) and contribute to the decarbonisatoin of the rail network

Integration of the European Traffic Control System digital signalling to enhance future capacity

 

[zwk500]

In answer to the question, quite probably.

From a longer list:

I dont think electrification could be called much more than a vague aspiration at this time. I doubt there's any serious timescale thst has been put on it.

 

[snowball]

The newly released document referred to in the NCE article is being discussed in its own thread here:

East West Main Line - Network Rail's view

Very interesting paper by Network Rail: https://sacuksprodnrdigital0001.blob.core.windows.net/regional-long-term-planning/North,%20West%20and%20Central/East%20West%20Main%20Line%20Strategic%20Statement%202022.pdf It effectively says that, without through running beyond Oxford and...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[The Ham]

I dont think electrification could be called much more than a vague aspiration at this time. I doubt there's any serious timescale thst has been put on it.

Hence my answer of quite probably to the question "Could East-West Rail (EWR) be electrified?" As NR are saying that it's something that is possible to undertake.

If the question was "Would it?" then my answer would have been it's possible it may do. As NR aren't saying that there's funding or even the political will to do so at this stage.

 

[Wynd]

Late to the party, but why wasn't this electrified from the get go...? Is it the Treasury again?

 

[swt_passenger]

Late to the party, but why wasn't this electrified from the get go...? Is it the Treasury again?

The gullible idiots at DfT and/or treasury were worried something would come along in the meantime to make electrification redundant/unnecessary. But it’s just one of the many ways EWR has been continually reduced in scope over the last few years.

All the stuff about freight, long distance, cross country, running through Oxford etc etc, which along with electrification is mentioned in the NR document linked in post #42, had really all been flagged up in early proposals by the EWR consortium.

 

[zwk500]

The gullible idiots at DfT and/or treasury were worried something would come along in the meantime to make electrification redundant/unnecessary. But it’s just one of the many ways EWR has been continually reduced in scope over the last few years.

I think it was also a realisation by some of the clever heads at DfT/Treasury that electrifying Oxford not long before you rebuild it wasn't massively sensible. If EWR is then a single ended connection I wouldn't be surprised if it changed the power supply design quite substantially.
Also, Bedford to Bletchley would still be running diesels so you'd still be running diesel under under wire. By building EWR electrification ready (as I think they have), it means you can wait until enough of the other pieces of the puzzle are in place to get reasonable benefit for the line.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Also, Bedford to Bletchley would still be running diesels

Just do that now as well. It's a short line with few bridges or other obstructions. Bonus: you could lose the unreliable 230s and use 350s.

 

[zwk500]

Just do that now as well. It's a short line with few bridges or other obstructions. Bonus: you could lose the unreliable 230s and use 350s.

1. Any rebuild would require changes over the single line sections.
2. Few bridges but many level crossings which are arguably worse.

 

[Bletchleyite]

2. Few bridges but many level crossings which are arguably worse.

Is there a ban on new electrification over level crossings? If not, what changes must be made?

 

[A0]

Is there a ban on new electrification over level crossings? If not, what changes must be made?

I'm going to guess there's something to do with having HV electrical systems in close proximity to the level crossing equipment - and ensuring it doesn't cause interference.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 Apr 2022 ==

Just do that now as well. It's a short line with few bridges or other obstructions. Bonus: you could lose the unreliable 230s and use 350s.

BIB - April the 1st was last week.

 

[Bletchleyite]

BIB - April the 1st was last week.

Er, St Albans?

 

[cle]

Yep sorry but 350s would be ridiculous.

I think the report said the obvious - that EWR, once built, could have the potential to do so much more and be a proper mainline. But there are many interventions needed to do that. Wires are table stakes - seemingly the next likely things are Oxford and direct MKC solves being addressed. MKC might be the Southern path, but EWR do seem confident that the next phase to open will be 2tph Oxford-MKC and so clearly they think it is doable both path and platform-wise.

Oxford is fairly self-explanatory, and Chiltern's two bays are well used and so this might ideally run through - although there will be two up platforms in the new build. That said, there is talk of extending the terminating fast on to the Cotswolds line (even Hanborough, to be wired to, as rumour has it) - so Oxford might have more platform breathing space.

I really don't see Cardiff on the map any time soon, but Bristol via Bath (exiting the 125mph mainline sooner - and serving Bath of course) - might be workable. The tricky part will be pathing Oxford-Didcot, can it be done non-stop or does it need to take something else on.

And after Oxford and MKC, Bedford will need its bells and whistles station to be able to send anything up the MML, for which there is space north of Bedford. A Corby might enable a Leicester EMU and the connectivity that brings - but a Nottingham probably more useful for the likes of Oxford and Bletchley/MK market, and Bedford itself.

 

[Wyrleybart]

Late to the party, but why wasn't this electrified from the get go...? Is it the Treasury again?

Basically too many lillies who are trying to build a very expensive railway by trying to get other agencies to fund it.

zwk500 wrote "Also, Bedford to Bletchley would still be running diesels so you'd still be running diesel under under wire. By building EWR electrification ready (as I think they have), it means you can wait until enough of the other pieces of the puzzle are in place to get reasonable benefit for the line".

AFAIK EWR is not currently planned to be electrification ready - and that is the huge mistake for me. While the engineers have possession of the trackbed they should do what they need to do - as you suggest. This to me means installing all the piles for the OLE supports whilst under possession. Once the completed "diesel railway" is commissioned and handed over the the operators, in future it would take months and months of overnight possessions to close the line to piledrive the supports. However with bases pre installed, so much more installation can be achieved by simply bolting stanchions to the pre existing concrete bases.

Happy to be corrected if EWR contractors actually are piling and concreting the bases, whilst working on the trackbed.

 

[HSTEd]

Late to the party, but why wasn't this electrified from the get go...? Is it the Treasury again?

Because ultimately electrification has not been at all popular with railway management for decades.

Much cheaper to burn your zero-duty diesel and just demand more subsidy from the taxpayer.

There was even senior people at the old Cross Country TOC demanding the de-electrification of Newcastle to Edinburgh.

 

[zwk500]

Is there a ban on new electrification over level crossings? If not, what changes must be made?

Height of vehicle against height of wire. Potential point of conflict and defilement if a tall vehicle struck the wire.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Height of vehicle against height of wire. Potential point of conflict and defilement if a tall vehicle struck the wire.

Again, what changes must be made? The issues are, with respect, obvious.

 

[zwk500]

Again, what changes must be made? The issues are, with respect, obvious.

Needs to be risk assessed. A bridge is a static obstacle, a level crossing has a dynamic risk. Its not anything that can't be solved, but for instance wire gradient from an adjacent obstruction to the level crossings, as was the case at Challow or nearby I believe

 

[snowball]

Needs to be risk assessed. A bridge is a static obstacle, a level crossing has a dynamic risk. Its not anything that can't be solved, but for instance wire gradient from an adjacent obstruction to the level crossings, as was the case at Challow or nearby I believe

You may be thinking of the notorious bridge at Steventon where a major part of the problem was its proximity to a level crossing.

 

[Cantab26]

AFAIK EWR is not currently planned to be electrification ready

That somewhat depends on what one considers ‘electrification ready’ to mean.

It has been and is being designed so that nothing being built at the moment will preclude fairly simple electrification in the future, subject to funding and obtaining the requisite consents.

Happy to be corrected if EWR contractors actually are piling and concreting the bases, whilst working on the trackbed.

They are not because there are no powers in place so to do at the moment.

 

[zwk500]

You may be thinking of the notorious bridge at Steventon where a major part of the problem was its proximity to a level crossing.

That's the one, thanks. There was also a level crossing near York (Joan Croft) where the replacement with a bridge enabled the wire height to be lowered, which obviously benefitted something as it was touted as a benefit of the scheme on publicity.