Burscough curves turned down

[Bletchleyite]

In the interests of cutting off the off-topic discussion and returning to rail related matters, given that new heavy rail curves are unlikely would the local travel patterns support keeping the Preston-Ormskirk line but slueing it other to allow a single-track extension of Merseyrail to share the trackbed and go round the curve to a new platform at Burscough Bridge? This would require some juggling of Ormskirk station, a new platform at Burscough Junction and probably taking out the Bowling club for a new Merseyrail platform east of the A59 road bridge but would at least avoid issues of resignalling, service patterns and such like. It might need another Merseyrail unit and crew, but the national rail side stays entirely as is.
It's probably been discussed somewhere in the past 5 pages, apologies if so.

That's basically just reinstating the South Curve, isn't it?

 

[zwk500]

That's basically just reinstating the South Curve, isn't it?

Yes, but as part of Merseyrail and with absolutely no physical connection to the rest of the heavy rail network

 

[Bletchleyite]

Yes, but as part of Merseyrail and with absolutely no physical connection to the rest of the heavy rail network

I think the overall cost of that would probably exceed my proposal of "everything meeting at Burscough Bridge" with much less benefit.

I have a feeling the most likely thing to happen (if anything does) is an hourly battery Merseyrail extension to Preston using the infrastructure exactly as it is, give or take a slight slewing at Ormskirk to make the lines connect together. Rufford to Ormskirk is already tokenless block, I forget if it's a short track circuit or axle counters, but the latter wouldn't be too hard to add.

 

[geordieblue]

Given that new heavy rail curves are unlikely

Also probably worth saying that Merseyrail is a heavy rail system - one largely isolated from the rest of the national network but a heavy rail system nonetheless

 

[zwk500]

I think the overall cost of that would probably exceed my proposal of "everything meeting at Burscough Bridge" with much less benefit.

I have a feeling the most likely thing to happen (if anything does) is an hourly battery Merseyrail extension to Preston using the infrastructure exactly as it is, give or take a slight slewing at Ormskirk to make the lines connect together. Rufford to Ormskirk is already tokenless block, I forget if it's a short track circuit or axle counters, but the latter wouldn't be too hard to add.

I disagree that the overall cost would be higher - junctions are the most expensive part of any system and keeping Merseyrail and Northern trains totally separate keeps the signalling alterations as low as possible. At most, it's 1 loop at Ormskirk.

Also probably worth saying that Merseyrail is a heavy rail system - one largely isolated from the rest of the national network but a heavy rail system nonetheless

Fair point, I suppose I was just trying to be clear between the Northern (TOC) side and Merseyrail.

 

[6Gman]

I think it is probably overall best to concentrate on sites with good public transport (i.e. surrounding railway stations/lines where stations can be built) than being particular about what sort of site it is. It's only farmland, there's lots of it. The situation is quite similar in a way to the proposals for development around Kempston Hardwick, which is probably why it remains open being fairly pointless as it is.

Much of the land around there is of the highest agricultural grade; its release for housing is not generally encouraged.

 

[HSTEd]

Much of the land around there is of the highest agricultural grade; its release for housing is not generally encouraged.

Virtually all the low grade agricultural land in England is in national parks and thus its release for housing is essentially impossible.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Much of the land around there is of the highest agricultural grade; its release for housing is not generally encouraged.

Doesn't stop it happening for various new estates around Ormskirk and south Burscough.

 

[6Gman]

Doesn't stop it happening for various new estates around Ormskirk and south Burscough.

No indeed, but since Burscough has a Neighbourhood Development Plan which identifies or specifies (whichever is appropriate) that the area around any new interchange station is:

a) in the Green Belt
b) outside the settlement boundary

it's very hard to see it being released for housing in the Plan period (to 2027).

 

[Bletchleyite]

No indeed, but since Burscough has a Neighbourhood Development Plan which identifies or specifies (whichever is appropriate) that the area around any new interchange station is:

a) in the Green Belt
b) outside the settlement boundary

it's very hard to see it being released for housing in the Plan period (to 2027).

However it would be astonishing to see this not change if an interchange was proposed. People speak as if such plans are immutable. In English law nothing is immutable, we don't even have a written constitution. A proposed station would be a material change, so I think realistically land bounded by the canal and Warper's Moss Lane could easily become a natural part of the settlement, filling in what is essentially a missing quadrant.

Station or no, I would be astonished was there not housing there within 50 years.

I would also expect to see the brownfield land currently containing an industrial estate and the tip around Mill Dam Lane to be developed, with planning gain potentially funding the construction of the long awaited Mill Dam Lane station.