Transpennine Route Upgrade and Electrification updates

[43095john]

Replacement LED signals have started appearing between York and Church Fenton over the past week. None have been fully erected or installed as of yet however a few are laid down in front of the signal they'll replace. A few on the Up & Down Leeds Lines between Church Fenton & Ulleskelf and at least 1 near Copmanthorpe on the Down Leeds

 

[snowball]

There's been a slight change in the page that's supposed to track progress on piling between Manchester and Stalybridge. The overall progress figure, last seen saying 10% complete, now says 40%. Given that we're in November on a project that was supposed to run from April to December, they would appear to be well behind schedule. There's also a bit saying they worked through the summer. The map is still without any red, yellow or green lines, though it did have some several months ago.

manchestertostalybridge.co.uk

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manchestertostalybridge.co.uk

July is mentioned for unclear reasons, so perhaps the 40% is from then rather than now!!

 

[GRALISTAIR]

This is worrying. If they are way behind on this smallish project how the hell is that going to give the DfT and Treasury any confidence? Quite the opposite I would have thought.

 

[John R]

This is worrying. If they are way behind on this smallish project how the hell is that going to give the DfT and Treasury any confidence? Quite the opposite I would have thought.

And more to the point, if they can't even monitor/report on progress well enough to keep updated a website supposed to be reporting on progress, it would suggest that a) either they are well behind, so don't want to embarrass themselves by setting out truthfully the current position, or b) the project woefully underestimates the credibility that comes with keeping people informed having committed to doing so.

 

[YorkshireBear]

There's been a slight change in the page that's supposed to track progress on piling between Manchester and Stalybridge. The overall progress figure, last seen saying 10% complete, now says 40%. Given that we're in November on a project that was supposed to run from April to December, they would appear to be well behind schedule. There's also a bit saying they worked through the summer. The map is still without any red, yellow or green lines, though it did have some several months ago.

manchestertostalybridge.co.uk

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manchestertostalybridge.co.uk

July is mentioned for unclear reasons, so perhaps the 40% is from then rather than now!!

Having travelled the route again this morning I am not convinced piling is only 40% complete, it looks much more than that considering the plan wasn't ever for getting the piles as far as stalybridge station I don't believe.

I am not sure if there are any OLE amendments to make east of Victoria but the compound that has recently been built on the north side of the line just east of Miles Platting is definitely stockpiling OLE structure parts.

 

[CAF397]

Piles are in place up to the vicinity of Ashton Moss North Jn, can't verify ALL are there, but definitely appear to be.

Plus piles are now in place from Guide Bridge West Jn towards Stalybridge, as far as the start of the viaducts.

A substantial amount of land clearance taking place adjacent to the Up Huddersfield just after Stalybridge Junction, either for a work compound or other lineside facility.

 

[snowball]

The Manchester-Stalybridge "dashboard" page has been updated again. Red line (current work) shown around Ashton. Completion date not shown (previously given as December). Future dates in 2022 to be confirmed.

manchestertostalybridge.co.uk

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manchestertostalybridge.co.uk

 

[Viscount702]

I noticed this evening that the pages on the NR website relating to TRU show just a black screen. I am hoping the pages are being updated in light of the IRP. The exception is the dashboard for Victoria- Stalybridge piling. I noted the addition of the red line yesterday but that was all. The FAQs page does give some additional information but that has not been upated. It says piling to end of year and before the end of the year steelwork will start going up. In light of the IRP it is my hope that the various pages will be updated to reflect what has now been announced and with a better idea of timing.

I would also like to know what they intend doing at Stalybridge if anything as this will clearly affect progress on wiring

 

[snowball]

I noticed this evening that the pages on the NR website relating to TRU show just a black screen.

For me this afternoon/evening the entire NR website is showing black.

 

[edwin_m]

Has another royal died?

 

[twin turbo]

The integrated rail plan still leaves it unclear as to exactly what they intend to do, a lot of talk about pinch points and reducing time from York to Manchester so will be interesting to see how they get those speeds up at Church Fenton with the curve south of the station. Many in Church Fenton are still wondering if they will still go ahead with the intended HS2 route to bypass the curve as the current electrification work stops right where the new line would integrate with the current track.

3.100 The rail corridor between Leeds and York is a constraint to boosting capacity and reliability from Leeds to Manchester as well as Leeds to Newcastle (because it is difficult to terminate more trains at Leeds). Previous plans have looked at using the HS2 Eastern Leg Church Fenton link to the East Coast Main Line. However, given the Government’s intended approach to the Eastern Leg set 112 Integrated Rail Plan for the North and Midlands out at paragraph 3.28, it intends to instead seek a scheme capable of being implemented earlier than previous plans, which will improve reliability and resilience, as well as future proofing for NPR.

3.28 Under previous plans for the HS2 Y-network, the Eastern Leg was planned to run from the West Midlands to an East Midlands Hub station at Toton, one of three regeneration sites in the region. Trains would then continue north, serving Chesterfield and Sheffield via a spur to the Midland Main Line (MML), or continue on new high speed line to a new station at Leeds, with a spur to the East Coast Main Line (ECML) to serve York, Darlington, Durham and Newcastle. However, in the light of cost increases, concerns about intermediate markets, development of plans for other schemes and analysis indicating a longer delivery timeframe since the route was confirmed in summer 2017,54 the Government has considered whether similar or better benefits could be obtained in a more affordable way, earlier and allow for an iterative approach to delivery.

 

[Class 170101]

I personally don't see how finishing NPR at Marsden will help increase capacity to Huddersfield as it will still be a two track railway between those points with all the constraints that imposes. Leeds to Church Fenton the same.

Also how many trains can be formed of solely EMUs? all the branches east of Leeds to Hull, York and beyond today served by TPE still seem to have no plans for wires? So again BMUs will needed with all the heavier track forces applied that electrification seemed to be trying to avoid / get rid of.

 

[edwin_m]

I personally don't see how finishing NPR at Marsden will help increase capacity to Huddersfield as it will still be a two track railway between those points with all the constraints that imposes. Leeds to Church Fenton the same.

Also how many trains can be formed of solely EMUs? all the branches east of Leeds to Hull, York and beyond today served by TPE still seem to have no plans for wires? So again BMUs will needed with all the heavier track forces applied that electrification seemed to be trying to avoid / get rid of.

The two track section shared by fast and slow trains is shorter and the number of stations along it is reduced. Currently a slow train has to get from Stalybridge to Huddersfield before it can be overtaken (discounting a wait of several minutes at Diggle Junction). If built as planned it would only have to get from Marsdent to Huddersfield.

There are no details of where trains would continue northward/eastward from Leeds, but electrification to York is mentioned and I think it's likely they would continue to Newcastle. Other destinations might be electrified in the meantime, or might get bi-modes that would probably stay on the existing route west of Marsden.

 

[Bald Rick]

I personally don't see how finishing NPR at Marsden will help increase capacity to Huddersfield as it will still be a two track railway between those points with all the constraints that imposes. Leeds to Church Fenton the same.

the IRP (and this thread) explains that there will be 3/4 tracks between the new line merging with the existing line at Marsden and Huddersfield, and a 4 track section fir some of the way from Leeds to Church Fenton.

Also how many trains can be formed of solely EMUs? all the branches east of Leeds to Hull, York and beyond today served by TPE still seem to have no plans for wires? So again BMUs will needed with all the heavier track forces applied that electrification seemed to be trying to avoid / get rid of.

heavier track forces are a relatively minor issue in the scheme of things. But I’d expect Hull to be electrified.

 

[Class 170101]

the IRP (and this thread) explains that there will be 3/4 tracks between the new line merging with the existing line at Marsden and Huddersfield, and a 4 track section fir some of the way from Leeds to Church Fenton.

But some of these costs must be as yet unquantifiable (subject to further work) specifically around Marsden because, as I understand it, there wasn't planned to be a link here between NPR and TRU?

 

[Roast Veg]

heavier track forces are a relatively minor issue in the scheme of things. But I’d expect Hull to be electrified.

I don't have the schedule in the IRP to hand, but presumably this wold follow the MML and TRU work as part of Network Rail's schedule?

 

[59CosG95]

I don't have the schedule in the IRP to hand, but presumably this wold follow the MML and TRU work as part of Network Rail's schedule?

Knowing that Hull's 3 constituencies are fairly solidly red, that seems unlikely with Alexander Boris de Pfeffel in No. 10.

 

[WiredUp]

Knowing that Hull's 3 constituencies are fairly solidly red, that seems unlikely with Alexander Boris de Pfeffel in No. 10.

Where did they get to before on the Selby - Hull electrification? I think it was discounted after getting to GRIP 3 (option selection), but was the BCR for it that bad? Or was it a victim of bi-modes?

 

[Nottingham59]

Hull's 3 constituencies are fairly solidly red

More likely to Middlesbrough, then

 

[Bald Rick]

But some of these costs must be as yet unquantifiable (subject to further work) specifically around Marsden because, as I understand it, there wasn't planned to be a link here between NPR and TRU?

Let’s say that it has been quantified, but does need more work.

 

[matacaster]

When hudds to ravensthorpe line is 4-tracked, how will the hudds to Bradford locals be accommodated without eating up paths on main line?

 

[stuu]

When hudds to ravensthorpe line is 4-tracked, how will the hudds to Bradford locals be accommodated without eating up paths on main line?

They will be on the slow lines, they are paired by use - the slow lines are on the west/North side

 

[hwl]

heavier track forces are a relatively minor issue in the scheme of things. But I’d expect Hull to be electrified.

And TPE have enough 802s for Hull (in the interim) and Scarborough once the main TP electrification works happen.
Getting everything else done or funded helps minimise the scope of works and costs associated with Hull electrification which means it is more likely to get the nod from Treasury at some point in the future.

 

[matacaster]

They will be on the slow lines, they are paired by use - the slow lines are on the west/North side

Ah, thanks!

 

[snowball]

When hudds to ravensthorpe line is 4-tracked, how will the hudds to Bradford locals be accommodated without eating up paths on main line?

They will be on the slow lines, they are paired by use - the slow lines are on the west/North side

Indeed any train which joins or leaves the main Manchester-Leeds route, or calls at a station, between Hudds and Dewsbury, will not be able to use the fast lines. The points for such movements will not exist.

 

[YorksLad12]

Indeed any train which joins or leaves the main Manchester-Leeds route, or calls at a station, between Hudds and Dewsbury, will not be able to use the fast lines. The points for such movements will not exist.

I bet they will. If there's an issue with the fast lines, how will you get the fast trains past the problem without using the slow lines? Using the unaffected line in one direction would be possible, but using the slow lines would be better.

 

[snowball]

I bet they will. If there's an issue with the fast lines, how will you get the fast trains past the problem without using the slow lines? Using the unaffected line in one direction would be possible, but using the slow lines would be better.

If there's an issue with the fast lines, trains will use the slow lines all the way between Huddersfield and Dewsbury.

There are no connections in the plans except at Huddersfield station throat, and at the end of the 4-track section between Ravensthorpe and Dewsbury. Remember the whole stretch is only about 8 miles. I imagine there are several stretches of 4 tracks around the country with no fast-slow crossovers in 8 miles.

 

[reddragon]

And the Great Western electrification lots of wires and ducts and drains, demonstrating the value of full investigations before starting!

Oi, that was their best ever missing asset mapping exercise, they know where they are now!

 

[YorkshireBear]

If you want to find lost drainage or cables, electrify. The piles are unbelievably good at finding em.

 

[D6130]

There are no connections in the plans except at Huddersfield station throat, and at the end of the 4-track section between Ravensthorpe and Dewsbury. Remember the whole stretch is only about 8 miles. I imagine there are several stretches of 4 tracks around the country with no fast-slow crossovers in 8 miles.

So, would I be correct in assuming that the grade-seperated junctions at Thornhill and Heaton Lodge will only connect the Calder Valley line to the slow lines? If so, how would engineering work or obstruction diversions from the upgraded TP route be organised?