WAG Express contract extended

[merlodlliw]

Thats an incredibly petty comment to make about NR, the WAG are far from squeaky clean in this one. Look it at this way, as you know, all of this scheme is built on the fact the WAG want their glorified taxi to run via Wrexham and not the great un-washed of Crewe. If Gezza wasnt running the scheme wouldnt have even been dreamt up. The situation has been the same for decades so why hasnt someone done something about it before ??. If Gezza goes to the great train path in the sky, whats the point of doing it ?? The next problem is that if it does get built and Gezza is no longer there, who pays for it ?? will the WAG be chucking NR a few bob to maintain it ??

Good Evening planner.

Of course the WAG are not squeaky clean, they are Politicians, so we mortals play them at their own game, we have a written endorsement from the WAG Govt that funding ending 2011 unused for this project, will be carried over, it was no mean feat to get this in writing.
As far as Gerald is concerned,a few months ago he was doomed, but given an extension of life for another year as a sop, so £1.6M a year for four years can be spent on the light aircraft to fly him to Cardiff.

Anyhow grip 3 for double tracks is ten months behind by Net Rail when we expected the costings to be finalised, ATW also want the double track as the single is a pinch point for timings.

Ieuan The Minister will be gone in four months, as will Gerald in eleven
months,If the double track goes ahead, no doubt NR will as usual be paid by someone as all North/South services will remain via Wrexham.

However, in real life industry, if a costing quote was ten months late,that firm would go bankrupt.

see you

 

[tbtc]

Werent Virgin and ATW complaining about the bottleneck as well? Its not just about Gerald that it is being done, though I agree that Gerald has helped to give them the kick up the arse that was needed to do it.

Virgin won't be in Wrexham much longer, for obvious reasons.

Otherwise there's just the hourly ATW service from Holyhead to Shrewsbury (continuing bi-hourly to Birmingham International *or* Cardiff), which should be find for a section of single line to cope with - there are certainly longer single track stretches, or more intensively used ones elsewhere in the UK).

For example the single track at Dore station is used by Liverpool - Norwich trains, Manchester Airport - Cleethorpes trains and Manchester - Sheffield trains plus lots of freight - easily six/eight trains an hour

Unless there are more services planned from Wrexham to Chester (e.g. Gerald), why redouble the line? Not as if there aren't other bottlenecks.

 

[Gareth Marston]

Werent Virgin and ATW complaining about the bottleneck as well? Its not just about Gerald that it is being done, though I agree that Gerald has helped to give them the kick up the arse that was needed to do it.

Chuck in Wrexham and Shropshire when they have to be diverted due to engineering elsewhere. Its certainly not just about 1 train, you can see the impact its has on connections at Shrewsbury etc. The premier service not running via North Wales's largest town has certainly put the spotlight on it. Ironically BR singled the line under pressure from the Welsh Office so the A483 dual carriageway could be built for a few less £'s.

I'm sure the GRIP Process has been busy finding every possible cost that could be found for the scheme and its logic gate refusing to go to the next stage in the process until funding the inflated level of unnecessarily completely rebuilding Wrexham to Chester is confirmed. Its no wonder stakeholders/3rd party funders bulk at NR's quotes to do work given how much they ask.
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Virgin won't be in Wrexham much longer, for obvious reasons.

Otherwise there's just the hourly ATW service from Holyhead to Shrewsbury (continuing bi-hourly to Birmingham International *or* Cardiff), which should be find for a section of single line to cope with - there are certainly longer single track stretches, or more intensively used ones elsewhere in the UK).

For example the single track at Dore station is used by Liverpool - Norwich trains, Manchester Airport - Cleethorpes trains and Manchester - Sheffield trains plus lots of freight - easily six/eight trains an hour

Unless there are more services planned from Wrexham to Chester (e.g. Gerald), why redouble the line? Not as if there aren't other bottlenecks.

tbtc- the single track at Dore Station Jnc to Dore West Jnc is just 60 chains. Saltneu Jnc to Wrexham North is 9 miles 34 chains!

 

[The Planner]

Need only 1 chain of single track to cause a bottleneck.

 

[Squaddie]

Where have you been planner, WAG have confirmed the funding last month after extensive lobbying.

If the double track goes ahead, no doubt NR will as usual be paid by someone as all North/South services will remain via Wrexham.

Earlier, you criticised The Planner for suggesting that the doubling might not happen, but now you are also using the word "if".

Are you able to provide a link to a document that confirms that the funding is secure and that this stretch of track will be doubled?

 

[4SRKT]

Need only 1 chain of single track to cause a bottleneck.

The southern approaches to York station, where 4 tracks go down to 3 (was 6 before the remodelling) being a case in point. The York > Leeds line is essentially single track for its first few hundred yards.

 

[tbtc]

The southern approaches to York station, where 4 tracks go down to 3 (was 6 before the remodelling) being a case in point. The York > Leeds line is essentially single track for its first few hundred yards.

Aye, it doesn't take much to go wrong (as the disruption caused at Dore shows).

However, clockface hourly service in Wales is a different matter...

 

[Intermodal]

Well I just bought a 1st class return (Chester - Cardiff) on the WAG Express leaving 23rd December 2010 - any tips on what to do whilst in Cardiff? One option I've considered is buying a valley lines rover for £8.60 and polishing a few more of those off, but any other ideas?

 

[Squaddie]

Well I just bought a 1st class return (Chester - Cardiff) on the WAG Express leaving 23rd December 2010 - any tips on what to do whilst in Cardiff? One option I've considered is buying a valley lines rover for £8.60 and polishing a few more of those off, but any other ideas?

Guided tour of Cardiff Castle, a wander down to (and around) the Bay, an hour or two in the National Museum of Wales, a bit of Christmas shopping (Cardiff has one of the very best shopping centres in the UK), perhaps a bus out to the open-air museum at St. Ffagans or a train to Caerphilly Castle? There's enough to do in Cardiff to keep you busy for several days.

 

[MCR247]

When you go to the bay, you could use the 121?

 

[Aictos]

IF the WAG's WAG-AIR got cancelled, where could the £4.6 million go if it was going to be ringfenced for rail projects?

 

[Gareth Marston]

IF the WAG's WAG-AIR got cancelled, where could the £4.6 million go if it was going to be ringfenced for rail projects?

I wouldn't hold your breath I suspect the contract will have compensation clauses meaning that its not that simple.

However if your looking at solely getting the most number of extra people on rail, I would build a parkway station off the junction of the A472/A4042 and close Pontypool & New Inn station (800yds away with poor road access and limited parking). Get all Holyhead and Manchester trains to stop there and fill in the gaps with trains that just got to Abergavenny and give a half hourly service from Abergavenny/Pontypool Parkway and Cwmbran into Newport and Cardiff. Theirs 30000 odd people in and around Pontypool that don't use rail.

 

[merlodlliw]

Earlier, you criticised The Planner for suggesting that the doubling might not happen, but now you are also using the word "if".

Are you able to provide a link to a document that confirms that the funding is secure and that this stretch of track will be doubled?

The link to Wag was put up on RF about two weeks ago, of course if, anything can happen, especially with NRs added extras.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Virgin won't be in Wrexham much longer, for obvious reasons.

Otherwise there's just the hourly ATW service from Holyhead to Shrewsbury (continuing bi-hourly to Birmingham International *or* Cardiff), which should be find for a section of single line to cope with - there are certainly longer single track stretches, or more intensively used ones elsewhere in the UK).

For example the single track at Dore station is used by Liverpool - Norwich trains, Manchester Airport - Cleethorpes trains and Manchester - Sheffield trains plus lots of freight - easily six/eight trains an hour

Unless there are more services planned from Wrexham to Chester (e.g. Gerald), why redouble the line? Not as if there aren't other bottlenecks.

The money in question for Double track is in Wales only,can not be spent in England. Current this stretch of rail is at its maximum use,and freight use it as well. As for VTs service, this was only a joint spoiler between ATW who gave up two paths to VT. As the Wrexham/London service is only used as a local service,and this is a dogs breakfast, VT want to leave but are stuck with having to run a service 0700 to Chester and 2027 or so to Wrexham to replace the ATW local, serves them right.

 

[tbtc]

Current this stretch of rail is at its maximum use

Its under ten miles and has one train an hour in each direction

 

[merlodlliw]

IF the WAG's WAG-AIR got cancelled, where could the £4.6 million go if it was going to be ringfenced for rail projects?

We found out on Sunday there is also the cost of WAG hiring the Civilian buildings at Valley, they pay the MOD £400K a year, to hire them. so the real cost of subsidy is over £6M for 4 years. no way would it be spent on rail. If WAG cancelled a very large compensation would have to be met
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Its under ten miles and has one train an hour in each direction

At certain times I agree, at other times it as the three maximum services it will allow within the hour.

 

[Gareth Marston]

Well I just bought a 1st class return (Chester - Cardiff) on the WAG Express leaving 23rd December 2010 - any tips on what to do whilst in Cardiff? One option I've considered is buying a valley lines rover for £8.60 and polishing a few more of those off, but any other ideas?

The upper stretch of the Rhymney line is the most scenic as this climbs out of the valley floor (the other lines stay down in the floor of the valley) beyond Bargoed theirs a passing resemblance to Talerddig bank on the Cambrian in parts.

I would seriously look into coming up to Ebbw Vale and then getting the bus - X4 operated by Stagecoach to Merthyr. Some of the viaducts on the LNWR Abergavenny Junction to Merthyr route have survived up at over 1000ft above sea level you can see them from the bus as it goes along the A465 to the right on the beacons side. You can walk over a few of them too the joint ones with the Brecon and Merthyr Railway in particular. The one Cefn Coed y Cymmer is spectacular.

 

[merlodlliw]

Well I just bought a 1st class return (Chester - Cardiff) on the WAG Express leaving 23rd December 2010 - any tips on what to do whilst in Cardiff? One option I've considered is buying a valley lines rover for £8.60 and polishing a few more of those off, but any other ideas?

Take a trip on the bubble car to Bay station, see where all the money as been spent, some very interesting sites to visit,coal exchange etc, make sure the ticket is booked to Cardiff Bay,same price standard,otherwise you pay extra,or did the last time I went to a meeting at WCVA, I realise you are going first.
I always enjoyed the walk from Queen street station to Central,this takes you right through the main shopping/trade area, pity a few of the very old stores have left I used to enjoy Morgans arcade & store sadly gone. I recommend you google David Morgan stores Cardiff, to see the magnificent arcade.

 

[4SRKT]

What happens when the bubble is in for maintenance?

 

[Gareth Marston]

What happens when the bubble is in for maintenance?

Its Pacer Time!

 

[fairlie]

It's not unusual to see a 153 filling in for the bubble too.

 

[Greenback]

It's not unusual, it happens all the time!

 

[Gareth Marston]

It's not unusual, it happens all the time!

Talking of things "not unusual" a visit to Sir Tom Jones nearest hometown of Pontypridd will find something that is unusual. The Taff Railways 1914 station is more or less intact. Constrained by being on a viduct above the town centre a very long island platform was developed with no fewer than 8 platform faces, only one of which is currently used the rest sitting there looking as though the just need the track relaid.

I suspect its Grade 11 listed hence its survival when nearly everywhere else in the valleys is lucky to have a vandalized bus shelter.

 

[Greenback]

I find Pontypridd station to be a sad place. It harks back tot eh days when railways ruled the Valleys, with parallel routes on both sides of th evalley floor in most cases.

I can imagine the busy scenes in days gone by there, coal trains on the non platform lines, and passenger trains waiting to head off to all sorts of places!

 

[Gareth Marston]

I find Pontypridd station to be a sad place. It harks back tot eh days when railways ruled the Valleys, with parallel routes on both sides of th evalley floor in most cases.

I can imagine the busy scenes in days gone by there, coal trains on the non platform lines, and passenger trains waiting to head off to all sorts of places!

Pontypridd features on 5 separate timetables in the western region summer 51 edition.

121- Newport, Caerphilly, Pontypridd, Dowlais, Merthyr and Brecon.
124- Pontyridd and Ynysbwl.
125- Cardiff, Pontypridd, Porth, , Treherbert, Avercynon and Merthyr.
132- Pontypridd, Llantrisant and Cowbridge.
135- Barry Island, Barry and Pontypridd via Wenvoe and Caridff and Pontyridd via St Fagans.

Theirs been talk form SEWTA about reopening a bay at Pontypridd for turnbacks and increasing number of trains from Cardiff.

 

[TDK]

Chuck in Wrexham and Shropshire when they have to be diverted due to engineering elsewhere. Its certainly not just about 1 train, you can see the impact its has on connections at Shrewsbury etc. The premier service not running via North Wales's largest town has certainly put the spotlight on it. Ironically BR singled the line under pressure from the Welsh Office so the A483 dual carriageway could be built for a few less £'s.

I'm sure the GRIP Process has been busy finding every possible cost that could be found for the scheme and its logic gate refusing to go to the next stage in the process until funding the inflated level of unnecessarily completely rebuilding Wrexham to Chester is confirmed. Its no wonder stakeholders/3rd party funders bulk at NR's quotes to do work given how much they ask.
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tbtc- the single track at Dore Station Jnc to Dore West Jnc is just 60 chains. Saltneu Jnc to Wrexham North is 9 miles 34 chains!

Coventry to Leamington on the Kennilworth lines is a long one!

 

[tbtc]

Coventry to Leamington on the Kennilworth lines is a long one!

...and one which should be a priority, since it has the XC services on it, some WMSR, potentially future ATW plus freight...

 

[Gareth Marston]

...and one which should be a priority, since it has the XC services on it, some WMSR, potentially future ATW plus freight...

Don't disagree that on a UK level the Leamington to Coventry is a screaming priority, however devolved power means that decisions can be made in parts that are devolved that others can only dream off...

 

[The Planner]

Some of it has to be re-doubled anyway if they want Kenilworth station to work, and if the increase in growth works as forecast then all of it will need to go back in.

 

[Drimnagh Road]

From the North Wales Coast Railway website latest bulletin...

It would appear that the haulage of the train will soon be taken over by Class 67 locomotives, as Holyhead-based drivers are being trained on the type. Will they be painted blue? (The locos that is, not the drivers.)

Anybody got gen on this?

 

[matt]

Some discussion here http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=39238