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Things that we don't look at with COVID and vaccines

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TPO

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Things not talked about re COVID.

We hear a lot about some things that may impact COVID susceptibility, but I wonder if sometimes other things are overlooked.

On the issue of other factors...... I wondered the other day what role Statins were playing? A lot of older people are on statins (even though there's limited evidence of them doing much good in most of those who take them, and evidence of harm caused by them). There's some suggestion in some books I have read recently that statins adversely impact the immune system and also have a degree of inhibitory effect on Vit D take-up. (There is some good stuff out there by eminent cardiologists who have challenged the group-think about statins and also explained the way the sample for testing of effectiveness was done, the number needed to treat with statins varies greatly depending on whether you're a man who has just had a heart attack or a woman without any symptoms of heart disease, indeed the whole presentation of heart disease in women is different to that in men yet this is rarely talked about).

I doubt however that this will be looked at because it's too easy to medicalise things. Yet there's some eminent medical and scientific opinion out there that the majority on statins could stop/reduce them without harm and this may improve their immune response- including to COVID. It's a pity the vast amount of research into COVID is so narrow really, and that it's so difficult to get beyond the massive group-think that peer-reviewed "science" has too often become.

Another one. The constant brush-off to young women worried that the COVID jab will affect their fertility. They are brushed off as fools yet the fact is that it's a logical question for them to ask given that one of the common side-effects (at least with the AZ jab) is affecting the menstrual cycle...... causing break-through bleeding for some women on the pill and unexpected bleeding for some women who recently reached menopause. No wonder that when younger women hear their older relatives discussing this they want questions answered. (I suffered this side-effect after the first jab, when I had the second and the lady health worker administering it asked about side effects and I told her, she responded that she had heard a lot of female vaccine recipients saying this. Yes I know anecdotes are not data but nevertheless this is an effect that is not yet explained and common enough that women talk about it amongst other women).

It's a pity that these sort of things were not looked at rather than govt using politicians logic to grasp at futile gestures like mask wearing and using a sledgehammer to crack a nut in making vaccines basically mandatory in some situations.

TPO
 
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62484GlenLyon

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Well said, TPO. Re statins, my GP put me on them over 10 years ago. I was aware of some of the research casting doubts on them, so I was never fully on-board with my GP about taking them. I enjoy hill walking and after one strenuous walk in Snowdonia my legs ached for 3 weeks! That was when I decided to stop taking them. Now, a decade later, similar walks result in aching legs for a couple of day at worst. I have never heard a word from GP about why I stopped submitting a repeat prescription form.

As for the Covid group-think - thorough scientific research and group-think should be mutually exclusive. Apparently though, Professor Whitty personally chooses who sits on the SAGE group so it is no surprise when it acts as an echo chamber of the like minded. Those scientists who have alternative viewpoints are cast into the outer darkness, so I am always keen to read any article I find that has been written by a "dissenter".

As a man I cannot comment on your last point other than to say if there seems to be anecdotal evidence of side effects affecting menstrual cycles, fertility etc. then they deserve to be investigated properly. Being fobbed off with bland, vague "oh, it's nothing to worry about" responses isn't good enough. After all, wasn't that the initial response to thalidomide, and we know how that turned out.
 

Eyersey468

Established Member
Joined
14 Sep 2018
Messages
2,606
Things not talked about re COVID.

We hear a lot about some things that may impact COVID susceptibility, but I wonder if sometimes other things are overlooked.

On the issue of other factors...... I wondered the other day what role Statins were playing? A lot of older people are on statins (even though there's limited evidence of them doing much good in most of those who take them, and evidence of harm caused by them). There's some suggestion in some books I have read recently that statins adversely impact the immune system and also have a degree of inhibitory effect on Vit D take-up. (There is some good stuff out there by eminent cardiologists who have challenged the group-think about statins and also explained the way the sample for testing of effectiveness was done, the number needed to treat with statins varies greatly depending on whether you're a man who has just had a heart attack or a woman without any symptoms of heart disease, indeed the whole presentation of heart disease in women is different to that in men yet this is rarely talked about).

I doubt however that this will be looked at because it's too easy to medicalise things. Yet there's some eminent medical and scientific opinion out there that the majority on statins could stop/reduce them without harm and this may improve their immune response- including to COVID. It's a pity the vast amount of research into COVID is so narrow really, and that it's so difficult to get beyond the massive group-think that peer-reviewed "science" has too often become.

Another one. The constant brush-off to young women worried that the COVID jab will affect their fertility. They are brushed off as fools yet the fact is that it's a logical question for them to ask given that one of the common side-effects (at least with the AZ jab) is affecting the menstrual cycle...... causing break-through bleeding for some women on the pill and unexpected bleeding for some women who recently reached menopause. No wonder that when younger women hear their older relatives discussing this they want questions answered. (I suffered this side-effect after the first jab, when I had the second and the lady health worker administering it asked about side effects and I told her, she responded that she had heard a lot of female vaccine recipients saying this. Yes I know anecdotes are not data but nevertheless this is an effect that is not yet explained and common enough that women talk about it amongst other women).

It's a pity that these sort of things were not looked at rather than govt using politicians logic to grasp at futile gestures like mask wearing and using a sledgehammer to crack a nut in making vaccines basically mandatory in some situations.

TPO

Well said, TPO. Re statins, my GP put me on them over 10 years ago. I was aware of some of the research casting doubts on them, so I was never fully on-board with my GP about taking them. I enjoy hill walking and after one strenuous walk in Snowdonia my legs ached for 3 weeks! That was when I decided to stop taking them. Now, a decade later, similar walks result in aching legs for a couple of day at worst. I have never heard a word from GP about why I stopped submitting a repeat prescription form.

As for the Covid group-think - thorough scientific research and group-think should be mutually exclusive. Apparently though, Professor Whitty personally chooses who sits on the SAGE group so it is no surprise when it acts as an echo chamber of the like minded. Those scientists who have alternative viewpoints are cast into the outer darkness, so I am always keen to read any article I find that has been written by a "dissenter".

As a man I cannot comment on your last point other than to say if there seems to be anecdotal evidence of side effects affecting menstrual cycles, fertility etc. then they deserve to be investigated properly. Being fobbed off with bland, vague "oh, it's nothing to worry about" responses isn't good enough. After all, wasn't that the initial response to thalidomide, and we know how that turned out.
I agree with both of you.
 

Yew

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Messages
7,245
Location
UK
Whilst I think it's important that we continually evaluate our interventions to ensure their promises for trials manifest in the real world, one has to be careful when discussing this, as there's a risk that one ends up associated with all sorts of quackery...
 

Eyersey468

Established Member
Joined
14 Sep 2018
Messages
2,606
Whilst I think it's important that we continually evaluate our interventions to ensure their promises for trials manifest in the real world, one has to be careful when discussing this, as there's a risk that one ends up associated with all sorts of quackery...
I agree with you as well
 
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