Northern to strike over Christmas pay?

[ralphchadkirk]

Isn't there a minimum age before being allowed to post on this forum? :roll:

I think you've answered your own question with that statement...

 

[Andrew Nelson]

Fair game.

Definite articles have a capital letter.

Proper NAMEs, and Uncommon NOWNS.

Some of Us got an Education.

A Person is a definite article, so I, Me, US He She and It should have a capital letter at the beginning. Just because "Modern" Teaching Methods have fallen into poor Grammar.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I think you've answered your own question with that statement...

You mean an UPPER Age, as I'm nearly 85.

 

[Mojo]

I don;t see how someone who works Mon - Fir is losing out. They still get their Saturday and Sunday off, so by your own argument, why should they get two extra days off?

At my organisation, I get 30 days annual leave, plus the 8 bank holidays, giving a total of 38 days leave per year. My working week is Monday-Friday. If our station staff work an average of 5 day/week shifts (so the same number of days per week worked as me), then they get a similar amount of annual leave, but as they have to work the bank holidays they get the extra 8 days bundled in with all their annual leave, so the days worked per annum should be roughly the same.

Now obviously I don't know the situation at Northern, maybe they only run to a 363 day year or Christmas/Boxing day doesn't count as a bank holiday for them, I don't know.

 

[ralphchadkirk]

Definite articles have a capital letter.

Proper NAMEs, and Uncommon NOWNS.

Some of Us got an Education.

A Person is a definite article, so I, Me, US He She and It should have a capital letter at the beginning. Just because "Modern" Teaching Methods have fallen into poor Grammar.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


You mean an UPPER Age, as I'm nearly 85.

Note - it's nouns

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Definite articles have a capital letter.

Proper NAMEs, and Uncommon NOWNS.

Some of Us got an Education.

A Person is a definite article, so I, Me, US He She and It should have a capital letter at the beginning. Just because "Modern" Teaching Methods have fallen into poor Grammar.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


You mean an UPPER Age, as I'm nearly 85.

I take it a 'NOWN' is a noun?

Definite articles are not capitalised in the case of 'people' words (me, he they etc), and from what I can gather never have, to be fair, if it does, most people on here use modern literacy standards, your, with all due respect, look like your arm randomly caught the Caps Lock button.

You're nearly 85? Your profile says 78...

 

[Greenback]

You mean an UPPER Age, as I'm nearly 85.

I could have sworn you were 78 last time you mentioned your age. then again, it is nearly 85 I suppose, as in 13 is nearly 20.

As for illiterate claptrap that you accuse others of, the old phrase 'pot, kettle, colour check oh blakc' springs to mind.

At my organisation, I get 30 days annual leave, plus the 8 bank holidays, giving a total of 38 days leave per year. My working week is Monday-Friday. If our station staff work an average of 5 day/week shifts (so the same number of days per week worked as me), then they get a similar amount of annual leave, but as they have to work the bank holidays they get the extra 8 days bundled in with all their annual leave, so the days worked per annum should be roughly the same.

Now obviously I don't know the situation at Northern, maybe they only run to a 363 day year or Christmas/Boxing day doesn't count as a bank holiday for them, I don't know.

Obviosuly do not know the ins and outs of the situation as it applies to Northern either, but the point is that if someone who works Monday - Friday is asked to work on a Bank Holiday, then it usually means that they get additional pay to compensate, or an additional day off, or even both.

I have worked on the railway, and in quite a few other jobs for other organisations, including some pretty major employers such as Royal Mail, the Civil Service and the NHS. The former had very little BH work, but paid both money and an extra day off, the latter pays both and the civil service did not allow me to work on public holidays as they did not want to pay extra and would rather not provide the services. On the railway, I received a very small additional payment for BH work, and no additional leave.

I leave it to those involved with the company on one side or the other to sort it out, but I can't blame employees for trying to get a better deal.

 

[scotsman]

I've said it before, and i'll say it again, think what you like about Bob, but he doesn't half get more media coverage than he (and the union) really deserve. I also find it pretty amusing myself at the attitude, 'you are lucky to have a job', because i don't think i was lucky getting it, just better than X amount of other applicants! I believe there is a right to withdraw labour in our dear nation, with some notable exceptions of course, so if the Northern lads and lassies want to strike, that is up to them, and if you don't like it, lump it. No offence intended of course. Just my objective view.

Well said!

(For the record, are you a member of any union?)

 

[bluenoxid]

Isn't there a minimum age before being allowed to post on this forum? :roll:

You haven't met the mod team yet

 

[jwos]

Definite articles have a capital letter.

Proper NAMEs, and Uncommon NOWNS.

Some of Us got an Education.

A Person is a definite article, so I, Me, US He She and It should have a capital letter at the beginning. Just because "Modern" Teaching Methods have fallen into poor Grammar.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


You mean an UPPER Age, as I'm nearly 85.

Are you sure that education was in an English-speaking country?

Some of the rest of us received educations too.

Mine included both spelling and correct grammar.

The Oxford English Dictionary says the following about when to use capital letters in English:

Using capital letters
You should always use a capital letter in the following situations:


In the names of people, places, or related words

Use a capital letter when you are writing the names of people, places, and words relating to them:

Africa, African
Buddha, Buddhism
Shakespeare, Shakespearean

At the beginning of a sentence

Use a capital letter at the beginning of a sentence:

The museum has huge potential. It will be a great boost to the area and we are really excited about it.

In the titles of books, films, organizations, etc.

Use a capital letter in the titles of books and other publications, films, organizations, special days, etc. In such cases, you need a capital letter for all the main words but not for the connecting words such as a, an, the, or, and, etc.:

Pride and Prejudice
Christmas Day
the Houses of Parliament.

In abbreviations

If you’re using the first letter of the abbreviated words, every letter should be a capital, e.g.:

BBC (British Broadcasting Corporation)
USA (United States of America)
MP (Member of Parliament)

The English club says this:

When do we Use Capital Letters?
1. Use a capital letter for the personal pronoun 'I':

•What can I say?
2. Use a capital letter to begin a sentence or to begin speech:

•The man arrived. He sat down.
•Suddenly Mary asked, "Do you love me?"
3. Use capital letters for many abbreviations and acronyms:

•G.M.T. or GMT (Greenwich Mean Time)
•N.A.T.O. or NATO or Nato (North Atlantic Treaty Organization)
4. Use a capital letter for days of the week, months of the year, holidays:

•Monday, Tuesday
•January, February
•Christmas
•Armistice Day
5. Use a capital letter for countries, languages & nationalities, religions:

•China, France
•Japanese, English
•Christianity, Buddhism
6. Use a capital letter for people's names and titles:

•Anthony, Ram, William Shakespeare
•Professor Jones, Dr Smith
•Captain Kirk, King Henry VIII
7. Use a capital letter for trade-marks and names of companies and other organizations:

•Pepsi Cola, Walkman
•Microsoft Corporation, Toyota
•the United Nations, the Red Cross
8. Use a capital letter for places and monuments:

•London, Paris, the Latin Quarter
•the Eiffel Tower, St Paul's Cathedral
•Buckingham Palace, the White House
•Oxford Street, Fifth Avenue
•Jupiter, Mars, Syrius
•Asia, the Middle East, the North Pole
9. Use a capital letter for names of vehicles like ships, trains and spacecraft:

•the Titanic
•the Orient Express, the Flying Scotsman
•Challenger 2, the Enterprise
10. Use a capital letter for titles of books, poems, songs, plays, films etc:

•War And Peace
•If, Futility
•Like a Virgin
•The Taming of the Shrew
•The Lion King, Gone With The Wind
11. Use capitals letters (sometimes!) for headings, titles of articles, books etc, and newspaper headlines:

•HOW TO WIN AT POKER
•Chapter 2: CLINTON'S EARLY LIFE
•LIFE FOUND ON MARS!
•MAN BITES DOG

I, me, us, he, she and it are all pronouns. The only one of these which needs to always be in capitals is "I".

But what would I know? I'm only a lowly member of the R.M.T.!


Oh, by the way, yes, R.M.T. should be in capitals.

 

[90019]

Anybody criticizes My posts again with this illiterate claptrap needs to really get a life.

Do Northern get extra revenue on these Days?
Do the Ticket prices go up to compensate the Employer?
Are there huge numbers of extra Passengers on these Days, so the Staff have to work harder? or, as I believe, the Trains are running almost empty?

My pension won't be going up for the 27/28th.

As for crap from Management, You mean expecting People to work for a living? There are plenty of folks working hard over the Christmas Hol's, including Christmas Day and Boxing Day, for a lot less than Your Basic.

I do believe the irony meter has just exploded.

 

[Mojo]

I don't know how this thread has turned in this direction, but can we stop the spelling and grammar related discussion please? We may have forum rules which ask people to post in a way which is consistent with "normal writing" which obviously asks people to make an attempt to use correct spelling and grammar (bar the odd few typos which we all make) out of courtesy for others if nothing else; but it's also courteous to keep on topic too!

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Think it's more the way that he/she has a go at everyone else for grammar etc, without realising it herself, then insulting other users when they try to prove points to her...

 

[CarterUSM]

What a pompous attitude to take. I'm better then you because I got the job and you didn't. There are thousands of people in public service who are about to lose their jobs. Rail staff have got off lightly in comparison. I'll defend your right to strike but please show a bit of humility to others who are less fortunate. By the way, the tax payer pays a large subsidy to Northern. Most people who live in their operating area never use trains. Some would argue that the subsidy should be cut ! Discuss

I understand your anger, but offence was not intended, perhaps I should have said I met the criteria more so than others at the time. I do not consider myself superior to others either, and i can assure you no pleasure was derived from seeing 4 of my colleagues , and close friends as it happens, miss out on the position I eventually was awarded. I am also aware of many public servants who will unfortunately lose their jobs, and yes, it is a disaster for them, but it is no grounds to shame Northern lads and lassies out of possible industrial action. If they choose to strike, then that's their choice, and unfortunately you can't do anything about that. I've been on strike this year, so i know what it is like, and there's no way i'm letting Joe Bloggs tell me I was right or wrong. I made the choice, not them, and I stood by it. Apologies for the misunderstanding . By the way Scotsman, RMT.

 

[scotsman]

By the way Scotsman, RMT.

I would be too, if I were getting paid for any of this!

 

[CarterUSM]

Hear hear....
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Anybody criticizes My posts again with this illiterate claptrap needs to really get a life.

Do Northern get extra revenue on these Days?
Do the Ticket prices go up to compensate the Employer?
Are there huge numbers of extra Passengers on these Days, so the Staff have to work harder? or, as I believe, the Trains are running almost empty?

My pension won't be going up for the 27/28th.

As for crap from Management, You mean expecting People to work for a living? There are plenty of folks working hard over the Christmas Hol's, including Christmas Day and Boxing Day, for a lot less than Your Basic.

I'm sure it has been said earlier, but if some are comparing conditions and wishing they had similar , then why not join the railway? Conditions and terms of service that have incidentally been accrued thanks to a reasonably strong union presence. I'm no apologist for my union either, in fact i criticise more often than not, but i've been on the other side too with crap money, no benefits and hard work. No fun.:cry:
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I would be too, if I were getting paid for any of this!

Don't get me wrong, there are many things i don't like about the RMT, but talk about getting issues into the limelight ? Max Clifford couldn't do a better job!

 

[yorksrob]

Most people who live in their operating area never use trains. Some would argue that the subsidy should be cut ! Discuss

No .. because the North really would grind to a halt without it's train services - whether everyone uses them or not.

But back to the issue in hand - generally I think bank holidays are important. We have a certain number in this country and those that are required to work on them should be compensated for that. I once volunteered to work on a bank holiday for my employer and they managed to weasle out of paying even time and a half. Needless to say, I shaln't be doing that again lightly.

That also goes for additional bank holidays for Royal Weddings etc. These are expected to be in addition to the existing bank holidays and those working on them should be compensated for the extra holiday. Employers who do not do this are being frankly unpatriotic IMO

 

[scotsman]

Don't get me wrong, there are many things i don't like about the RMT, but talk about getting issues into the limelight ? Max Clifford couldn't do a better job!

Yeah, I don't like Crow's aggressive nature - but he's a class debater and he's got all the right ideas. It's all about standing up for what's right.

 

[tbtc]

I think bank holidays are important. We have a certain number in this country and those that are required to work on them should be compensated for that

I agree, unless their contracts make no provision for that extra pay (or they signed away their right to special treatment of such days at a previous contract negotiation).


It's not about what's ideal, its about what is in the Northern contracts.

 

[yorksrob]

I agree, unless their contracts make no provision for that extra pay (or they signed away their right to special treatment of such days at a previous contract negotiation).


It's not about what's ideal, its about what is in the Northern contracts.

Well, I can see your point - but only if the entitlement was signed over for some specific tangiable benefit in lieu which if subsequently surrendered would lead automatically to the re-instatement of the holiday rights. And obviously that doesn't include additional bank holidays for purposes of national celebration as these wouldn't have existed when the agreement was signed.

 

[tbtc]

Well, I can see your point - but only if the entitlement was signed over for some specific tangiable benefit in lieu which if subsequently surrendered would lead automatically to the re-instatement of the holiday rights. And obviously that doesn't include additional bank holidays for purposes of national celebration as these wouldn't have existed when the agreement was signed.

I've made a distinction between "unexpected" Bank Holidays (Royal Weddings, Jubilee etc) which you can't predict, and "expected" ones. Since Christmas Day is at the weekend in roughly 30% of years there will be this situation happening fairly often.

 

[yorksrob]

I've made a distinction between "unexpected" Bank Holidays (Royal Weddings, Jubilee etc) which you can't predict, and "expected" ones. Since Christmas Day is at the weekend in roughly 30% of years there will be this situation happening fairly often.

That's fair enough - as long as there was something fairly heavily de-lineated and tangeable that the ordinary bank holidays had been swapped for.

 

[tbtc]

That's fair enough - as long as there was something fairly heavily de-lineated and tangeable that the ordinary bank holidays had been swapped for.

I don't know what the negotiations were, but regardless of what deals were done at what price, if the deal was done then you can't strike because you're not getting something (which you already sacrificed).

If the staff want to get enhanced pay on these days, then fair enough, but there's give and take, and you can't swap something away then strike because you've lost it. Everyone *says* they want a mature relationship between staff/ management/ unions, but this doesn't look like the way to do it.

 

[yorksrob]

I don't know what the negotiations were, but regardless of what deals were done at what price, if the deal was done then you can't strike because you're not getting something (which you already sacrificed).

If the staff want to get enhanced pay on these days, then fair enough, but there's give and take, and you can't swap something away then strike because you've lost it. Everyone *says* they want a mature relationship between staff/ management/ unions, but this doesn't look like the way to do it.

Yeah, I sort of agree. I suppose what worries me is that in the world of employment, holiday is like gold. The value of other benefits such as health plans and pensions etc can vary quite considerably over time, but paid holiday is a day off which has an intrinsic value which is universal across the ages.

If for example the bank holiday had been traded away, say ten years ago, whatever it was traded for may have decreased in value - whereas a day's paid holiday is still the same. Plus the fact that many newer employees may not have been party to the original negotiations, depending on how long ago they were.

I'm worried that once lost, it might be difficult to negotiate the holiday back.

 

[90019]

Plus the fact that many newer employees may not have been party to the original negotiations, depending on how long ago they were.

But they will have accepted their contract without it in the first place, so that's not particularly relevant.

 

[reb0118]

One two may r's in paraphrase.

Sorry coudn't help myself:-

Surely you mean " One too many 'r's"

Can you spot the deliberate mistake(s)?

 

[yorksrob]

But they will have accepted their contract without it in the first place, so that's not particularly relevant.

Yes, probably true. I think I was overanalysing last night !