Examples of "Drags" in Normal Timetabled Service (Past or Present)

[306024]

Back around 1986 the line to Ipswich had been electrified but not to Harwich. I've a photo somewhere of a class 309 EMU being hauled by a class 37 from Parkeston Quay to Colchester. Interestingly the pantographs on the 309 were allowed to be raised on the move once the main line had been gained at Manningtree.

The short-lived 'European' from Parkeston Quay to Glasgow/Edinburgh via Stratford was hauled across the North London line before that was electrified at 25kv, can't remember the precise dates.

 

[CW2]

I think the practice of dragging 91s to Harrogate was quite short lived. There was an autumn leaves incident when the 47 doing the dragging slithered to a standstill near Horsforth, blocking the line for several hours. After that, the 91 came off at Leeds.

 

[randyrippley]

I thought the west coast sets were regarded as a complete train and all the maintenance regimes were to service each train as a set, loco included.
And that meant the RCH jumpers were left alone. Mucking around with them introduced unreliability of the control circuits.
Or have I got it wrong?

Only after the DVTs appeared, at which point any service requiring a loco change got chopped

 

[Ken H]

Only after the DVTs appeared, at which point any service requiring a loco change got chopped

Ah. thanks. makes sense.

 

[Richard Scott]

Only after the DVTs appeared, at which point any service requiring a loco change got chopped

I thought locos still got swapped and removed on regular occasions? Had an idea whole mark 3 rakes, DVT included, were used on Saturday holiday trains to places such as Paignton? I know I have a picture somewhere of a 47 on top of a DVT at Nuneaton, which it had worked from Wolverhampton. The electric was put on the rear at Nuneaton to work rest of the way to Euston. Believe it was around October 1989 (think loco was either 47152 or 47157).

 

[Mag_seven]

Back in the late 70s there was a Euston to Glasgow via Dumfries that had a diesel put on at Carlisle but i am not sure if the electric came off or not.

Electric locos were (to my knowledge) not dragged over the G&SW in the BR era although I think some may have been in the Virgin era.

 

[randyrippley]

I thought locos still got swapped and removed on regular occasions? Had an idea whole mark 3 rakes, DVT included, were used on Saturday holiday trains to places such as Paignton? I know I have a picture somewhere of a 47 on top of a DVT at Nuneaton, which it had worked from Wolverhampton. The electric was put on the rear at Nuneaton to work rest of the way to Euston. Believe it was around October 1989 (think loco was either 47152 or 47157).

They would have removed the electric loco for the weekend service at the depot, not en-route.

As for your Nuneaton service, presumably that was a makeshift emergency diversion

 

[Richard Scott]

They would have removed the electric loco for the weekend service at the depot, not en-route.

As for your Nuneaton service, presumably that was a makeshift emergency diversion

The Electric was attached/removed at Nuneaton. The rake was diesel hauled to/from Wolverhampton. This happened a number of times during Autumn 1989, had 31s, many different 47s and even a 58 (58013) during this time. These were diversions of Wolverhampton to Euston services but point was in response to Electric loco being treated as part of the rake once DVTs came in but certainly wasn't the case at this time.

 

[Ken H]

The Electric was attached/removed at Nuneaton. The rake was diesel hauled to/from Wolverhampton. This happened a number of times during Autumn 1989, had 31s, many different 47s and even a 58 (58013) during this time. These were diversions of Wolverhampton to Euston services but point was in response to Electric loco being treated as part of the rake once DVTs came in but certainly wasn't the case at this time.

I suspect the whole train concept was a good idea on paper but got lost in the day to day running of the railway.

 

[43096]

Going back to the original question, when does dragging become a normal, timetabled occurrence?

Currently there is dragging of electrics between Břeclav and Hodonín in Czechia following the tornados that affected the area on 24 June. The railway effectively requires re-electrification and whilst this is done, international services are dragged by diesels over this section (the ÖBB restaurant car attendant explained that breakfast wasn't possible in the section as the 754 diesel doing the drags doesn't have a high enough train supply rating). The regional Olomouc-Přerov-Břeclav-Brno service that is formed of modern EMUs is also dragged by a loco fitted with temporary coupler adapters - it can be done if there is a will to do so.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Only after the DVTs appeared, at which point any service requiring a loco change got chopped

The Holyheads continued with drags (usually without the AC loco) didn't they? There was an incident where a 90 was left in the formation (in Virgin days) and ended up at Llandudno Junction!

 

[Mag_seven]

The Holyheads continued with drags (usually without the AC loco) didn't they?

If there is no AC loco attached then that is not a "drag".

 

[Ken H]

Do the DVT + mk3's + electric with motorail vans stuck on the back count?

 

[61653 HTAFC]

If there is no AC loco attached then that is not a "drag".

Sorry, that's already been addressed upthread .

But loco swaps didn't end with DVTs, which was what I was responding to... and on at least one occasion, the electric did get dragged!

 

[zwk500]

Sorry, that's already been addressed upthread .

But loco swaps didn't end with DVTs, which was what I was responding to... and on at least one occasion, the electric did get dragged!

The OP does specifically rule out short term or ad-hoc moves:

What examples have there been, either present day or historic, of "drags" of electric rolling stock via unelectrified lines in normal timetabled service (i.e. excluding diversions due to incidents or engineering works)?

You aren't the only one who's missed it though!

 

[LRV3004]

I thought the electric locos were removed from the Blackpools at Preston??? If so its not a drag.

They generally were, but I have been on trains where, occasionally, the electric was left on and dragged!

 

[Taunton]

Different combination, but I believe that steam locomotives, banned from the "New" Woodhead tunnel when that opened in 1954, were in fact allowed through if only in "light steam", that is with no power applied, not blowing off, etc, pulled by an electric loco through the tunnel. This was a particular issue because the bulk of the onetime Great Central system, still pretty much all steam then, was to the east of the tunnel, but Gorton loco works, which they attended for heavy overhauls, was to the west of the tunnel.

 

[USRailFan]

What was done with detours over S&C in the BR Swallow era? Did they take the 87/90 off at Carlisle and attach a new one at Lancaster or wherever the train rejoined the WCML?

 

[D6130]

What was done with detours over S&C in the BR Swallow era? Did they take the 87/90 off at Carlisle and attach a new one at Lancaster or wherever the train rejoined the WCML?

Usually the electric loco was detached at Preston and replaced by a 47/4 for the run to Carlisle, which was then replaced by another electric loco there (and vice-versa in the opposite direction). On odd occasions - usually when the engineering works blocked access to Preston station - trains would run direct via Farington and Farington Curve Jn. without reversal, in which case the electric loco would be dragged via Clitheroe and the S & C.

 

[norbitonflyer]

And didn't 33's drag all manner of slam door units around the south?

Normally TC units, which were unpowered so not a drag. There were a couple of scheduled Waterloo-Southampton/Salisbury workings, dividing at Basingstoke, formed 33-TC-VEP-VEP. Again not actually a drag as the VEPs were under power.

Class 325s were designed to be loco-hauled when off the juice, but I don't know how often it happens in practice as most of the main mail distribution depots are electrified.

scot-rail.co.uk » Photo » 47200 in Aberdeen on 1Z96 Aberdeen - Carstairs 070705
Kensington Olympia..73133-Royal Mail class 325 emu 18.1.01… | Flickr

Did any Metropolitan emu stock ever make it to Aylesbury, dragged after Rickmansworth?

 

[Watershed]

The new Orion Rail services are formed of loco hauled 319s... at least for now!

 

[randyrippley]

Usually the electric loco was detached at Preston and replaced by a 47/4 for the run to Carlisle, which was then replaced by another electric loco there (and vice-versa in the opposite direction). On odd occasions - usually when the engineering works blocked access to Preston station - trains would run direct via Farington and Farington Curve Jn. without reversal, in which case the electric loco would be dragged via Clitheroe and the S & C.

Are you sure of that? I rode one of the Preston-Carlisle diversions, and saw several others and every one had the electric attached
This was during the period using DVTs

 

[USRailFan]

EDIT: Noticed this was answered further up in the thread

 

[D6130]

Are you sure of that? I rode one of the Preston-Carlisle diversions, and saw several others and every one had the electric attached
This was during the period using DVTs

I'm going back to the 1970s and 1980s - long before the DVTs were built, or even conceived!

 

[Sm5]

Only scheduled drags I can think of were non-passenger…
The use of 87’s on the class 325’s for Royal Mail trips.

Scheduled trains which had AC on non-electrified turns, rightly removed the AC for a diesel. The only exceptions were engineering works and such.

I recall often seeing AC drags through Bolton, but they were diversions, not routine scheduled turns. Similar around Birmingham if the AC was off you’d see diversions via Bescot etc..but this wasnt scheduled, in a routine sense.

I would like to see an AC electric do Bolton platform 5.. thats just about red pen for every enthusiast, as theyve been dragged through the others ( well maybe not the bay platform), indeed any loco hauled on platform 5 might be red pen territory for anyone under 60.

 

[randyrippley]

Saw what in retrospect was a strange movement one morning last week heading south on the WCML near Garstang
What appeared to be a 4-car class 319 (or lookalike) painted overall dark blue (not Northern blue/grey) hauled by a matching similarly painted 47/56. I was driving and too far away to see clearly

 

[Mag_seven]

Saw what in retrospect was a strange movement one morning last week heading south on the WCML near Garstang
What appeared to be a 4-car class 319 (or lookalike) painted overall dark blue (not Northern blue/grey) hauled by a matching similarly painted 47/56. I was driving and too far away to see clearly

That is the "Orion Rail" service.

See this thread:

Orion high speed logistics letting the train take the strain.

Ive been saying this for years, use stations as logistics destinations out of hours, especiallyin bigger cities. https://amp.ft.com/content/1ae200db-edce-406f-aaf7-07a21a98c9f6 The ageing electric passenger train that pulled into London’s Euston station on the evening of July 7 initially...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[randyrippley]

That is the "Orion Rail" service.

See this thread:

Orion high speed logistics letting the train take the strain.

Ive been saying this for years, use stations as logistics destinations out of hours, especiallyin bigger cities. https://amp.ft.com/content/1ae200db-edce-406f-aaf7-07a21a98c9f6 The ageing electric passenger train that pulled into London’s Euston station on the evening of July 7 initially...

www.railforums.co.uk

Yep, that was it

thanks

puzzled me a lot

 

[DorkingMain]

4TCs were dragged between Waterloo - Bournemouth by 4REPs back in the day, unsure if that counts. A loco would then be attached at Bournemouth to take it down the unelectrified route.

 

[Magdalia]

The short-lived 'European' from Parkeston Quay to Glasgow/Edinburgh via Stratford was hauled across the North London line before that was electrified at 25kv, can't remember the precise dates.

In the 1987-88 timetable the North Country boat trains to/from Harwich were booked to be "dragged" across North London on a daily basis. Trains from Harwich were dragged from Channelsea Junction to Camden Road, trains to Harwich were dragged from Willesden 58 signal to Stratford. Booked route was via Primrose Hill not Gospel Oak.