Current Northern services which could or should have first class

[Neptune]

I still don't understand how Northern get to operate to Nottingham. So far off their patch, a bit like TPE operating Newcastle to Edinburgh.

If this was the expectation that you don’t leave the area of your company name then EMR wouldn’t go to London, Norwich or Liverpool. TfW wouldn’t leave Wales (that would bugger up services at Chester and Shrewsbury somewhat), Scotrail wouldn’t go to Carlisle. I’m sure there’s plenty more examples.

 

[Ianno87]

a good example of this is tfw running services to Manchester from west wales and being the only operator on the welsh marches line which is mainly in england

And run plenty of services entirely within England! (e.g. Liverpool-Chester, Chester-Crewe, etc)

 

[Killingworth]

I still don't understand how Northern get to operate to Nottingham. So far off their patch, a bit like TPE operating Newcastle to Edinburgh.

Whoever operates it they need to be able to offer at least 3 carriages. 2 coach 195s are frequently full and standing, constrained by Platform 17 capacity at Leeds shared with slow Leeds - Sheffield stoppers.

 

[Neptune]

Whoever operates it they need to be able to offer at least 3 carriages. 2 coach 195s are frequently full and standing, constrained by Platform 17 capacity at Leeds shared with slow Leeds - Sheffield stoppers.

Being someone who works this route a lot I would say ‘frequently full and standing’ is a complete over exaggeration.

However, I agree that the issue with 2 car 195’s is that they have less seats and luggage space than the 158’s they replaced on the route which is an Achilles heel at certain times. It would have been better to retain the 158’s on this route and move the 195’s to the local routes that the 158’s have moved to and to which the 195’s are better suited.

 

[LowLevel]

If this was the expectation that you don’t leave the area of your company name then EMR wouldn’t go to London, Norwich or Liverpool. TfW wouldn’t leave Wales (that would bugger up services at Chester and Shrewsbury somewhat), Scotrail wouldn’t go to Carlisle. I’m sure there’s plenty more examples.

To be fair it was priced up by the SRA originally for Midland Mainline to operate as an Intercity service and was the original reason for ordering the 9 car 222 sets, they decided to go for the cheaper option of putting it with Northern with some ex Central Trains 158s instead.

 

[Bletchleyite]

To be fair it was priced up by the SRA originally for Midland Mainline to operate as an Intercity service and was the original reason for ordering the 9 car 222 sets, they decided to go for the cheaper option of putting it with Northern with some ex Central Trains 158s instead.

The 9-cars were ordered to replace HSTs. There was never any plan to run 9 cars on Liverpool-Norwich, that would be stupidly in excess of demand. The only time they ever got used or would get used for that purpose is Aintree Races.

Edit: or are you suggesting MML were going to extend from Leeds to Nottingham?

 

[LowLevel]

The 9-cars were ordered to replace HSTs. There was never any plan to run 9 cars on Liverpool-Norwich, that would be stupidly in excess of demand. The only time they ever got used or would get used for that purpose is Aintree Races.

Edit: or are you suggesting MML were going to extend from Leeds to Nottingham?

I never mentioned Liverpool or Norwich, Nottingham to Leeds was what was bring discussed and the original plan was to MML to run London to Leeds via Nottingham with 9 car 222s. Those plans were shelved and the 222s didn't enter traffic, sitting around for a while with various options including export to Ireland being considered before they finally did enter traffic with MML.

The route was still considered to be worthwhile however so Northern were contracted to run the route as a semi fast service with 158s with Sheffield and Leeds crews learning to Nottingham (they already had work to Chesterfield and always had done).

 

[Bletchleyite]

I never mentioned Liverpool or Norwich, Nottingham to Leeds was what was bring discussed and the original plan was to MML to run London to Leeds via Nottingham with 9 car 222s. Those plans were shelved and the 222s didn't enter traffic, sitting around for a while with various options including export to Ireland being considered before they finally did enter traffic with MML.

The route was still considered to be worthwhile however so Northern were contracted to run the route as a semi fast service with 158s with Sheffield and Leeds crews learning to Nottingham (they already had work to Chesterfield and always had done).

Thanks. Apologies, I was a bit confused by the post you quoted mentioning Liverpool-Norwich.

 

[Neptune]

To be fair it was priced up by the SRA originally for Midland Mainline to operate as an Intercity service and was the original reason for ordering the 9 car 222 sets, they decided to go for the cheaper option of putting it with Northern with some ex Central Trains 158s instead.

The 158’s were already in place as they arrived 2 to 3 years before the Nottingham services started in 2008.

I always understood that the 9 car 222’s were brought in to complement the HST fleet with the London - Sheffield fast service being the one planned for the Leeds extension (later cancelled). After all, the 222’s were built 5 years before the Leeds - Nottingham service started.

 

[Ianno87]

The 158’s were already in place as they arrived 2 to 3 years before the Nottingham services started in 2008.

The first step was the introduction of the Leeds-Barnsley-Sheffield fast service in Dec 2004 (nearly 17 years ago - still feels 'new' in my head!)

 

[Neptune]

The first step was the introduction of the Leeds-Barnsley-Sheffield fast service in Dec 2004 (nearly 17 years ago - still feels 'new' in my head!)

Yes that was in the 1Lxx path opposite the Nottingham 1Yxx path.

 

[37424]

I still don't understand how Northern get to operate to Nottingham. So far off their patch, a bit like TPE operating Newcastle to Edinburgh.

I don't see that it is, Leeds Sheffield is largely Northern Territory, Sheffield Nottingham is more EMR so half and half really certainly in terms of the main destinations so it could go to either really.