Missed last train connection, taxi home on split ticket?

[50007]

Just wondering if I accidentally dodged a bullet the other day. First leg of a three leg journey was delayed so I missed the final connection which was the last train home. Requested a taxi at the final connecting station. It only occurred to me when I was in the taxi that they could have refused as I had a separate ticket for the final leg, but they hadn’t looked closely at the ticket. Could they have refused the taxi request or is missing the last train due to late connection independent of the ticket held?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Provided you have left the required minimum connection time it doesn't matter if it is a split. Some staff may of course be misinformed.

 

[Class800]

If you had tickets for each leg, this is covered under the rules the same as if it was one ticket, i.e. it is one journey. Not to say there can't be issues occasionally with staff accepting it. The more problematic one is where the final leg is on a suburban service that uses PAYG, when no contract to provide that part of the journey has been made.

 

[Hadders]

The NRCoT says you can use more than one ticket to make a journey.

If you are delayed on your journey and miss the last connection then any train operator in a position to do so must help. This help could be providing a taxi or overnight accommodation.

 

[50007]

Thanks - that’s good to know, sounds like I would have been ok. It was a relief as the taxi journey was 25 miles!

 

[Class800]

Can I just check with experienced members my understanding that this would not apply for example if I was travelling from let's say York to Woolwich Arsenal, but my tickets were an LNER advance to London Kings Cross and PAYG to Woolwich Arsenal (as no contract would have been formed for the PAYG in advance), but would apply if I had one ticket or split tickets bought before the journey - a reason to avoid PAYG in London potentially on longer journeys if so?

 

[AlterEgo]

Can I just check with experienced members my understanding that this would not apply for example if I was travelling from let's say York to Woolwich Arsenal, but my tickets were an LNER advance to London Kings Cross and PAYG to Woolwich Arsenal (as no contract would have been formed for the PAYG in advance), but would apply if I had one ticket or split tickets bought before the journey - a reason to avoid PAYG in London potentially on longer journeys if so?

That’s broadly correct but not always a justification to avoid PAYG. May be worth getting a through ticket if you plan on taking the last train of the day, but also bear in mind if your journey is within the London bus area don’t expect a taxi.

 

[Hadders]

The use of PAYG isn’t specifically barred but it’s more straightforward if you already hold a ticket to your destination.

 

[MotCO]

Presumably journeys with more than one ticket are allowed since, if I recall correctly, there are some journeys where a single ticket is just not available and must be made using one or more tickets.

 

[philthetube]

I hold a pass which gives me free travel London to Watford Junction, one night I had planned to catch the last train possible back from Reading to Paddington to allow me to walk to Euston and catch the last Watford.

My train from Reading was cancelled and I was provided with a taxi Paddington to Watford.

Staff accepted that my pass was a ticket for the journey.

If planning on using PAYG I would advise carrying an itinerary, staff generally seem obliging if they do not think you are taking the mick any your journey seemed reasnable.

 

[30907]

Can I just check with experienced members my understanding that this would not apply for example if I was travelling from let's say York to Woolwich Arsenal, but my tickets were an LNER advance to London Kings Cross and PAYG to Woolwich Arsenal (as no contract would have been formed for the PAYG in advance), but would apply if I had one ticket or split tickets bought before the journey - a reason to avoid PAYG in London potentially on longer journeys if so?

As my sister, along with other (male and female) passengers was offered a taxi home to Zone 3 from KGX a few weeks ago, when she had used PAYG to get to KGX, I think that is over-cautious.

On the other hand there might be an issue with a cross-London split where PAYG is used for the tube connection - ISTR forum prudence advises that one or other ticket should include Zone 1-2.

 

[yorkie]

Can I just check with experienced members my understanding that this would not apply for example if I was travelling from let's say York to Woolwich Arsenal, but my tickets were an LNER advance to London Kings Cross and PAYG to Woolwich Arsenal (as no contract would have been formed for the PAYG in advance), but would apply if I had one ticket or split tickets bought before the journey - a reason to avoid PAYG in London potentially on longer journeys if so?

I do not believe PAYG invalidates this in any way but the most straightforward thing to do is to buy from a split ticket retailer (e.g. Trainsplit) and then you have the itinerary as evidence of a binding contract. The booking confirmation email could be forwarded to the relevant customer service department without you having to type anything up, other than a quick covering note.

If you sort out the splits yourself, you will be alone in the event of a dispute, but you are still contractually covered.

 

[Class800]

Thanks

 

[miklcct]

The use of PAYG isn’t specifically barred but it’s more straightforward if you already hold a ticket to your destination.

Am I covered if I hold tickets on both side of London and intend to make the cross-London connection using PAYG, but disruption before London makes me miss the last train of the second leg after crossing London?

 

[Hadders]

Am I covered if I hold tickets on both side of London and intend to make the cross-London connection using PAYG, but disruption before London makes me miss the last train of the second leg after crossing London?

I would suggest having itineraries that demonstrate that you have adhered to the minimum cross London interchange time.

 

[island]

Can I just check with experienced members my understanding that this would not apply for example if I was travelling from let's say York to Woolwich Arsenal, but my tickets were an LNER advance to London Kings Cross and PAYG to Woolwich Arsenal (as no contract would have been formed for the PAYG in advance), but would apply if I had one ticket or split tickets bought before the journey - a reason to avoid PAYG in London potentially on longer journeys if so?

You are entitled to be conveyed at the railway’s expense to your ticketed destination, which is London Kings Cross. Any onward transport provided would be by way of a gesture of goodwill. As mentioned above, for travel to London suburban destinations you may well be pointed to night buses.

Am I covered if I hold tickets on both side of London and intend to make the cross-London connection using PAYG, but disruption before London makes me miss the last train of the second leg after crossing London?

It is at best a grey area. At a minimum, you would want to have allowed the correct minimum connection time, and it would still be a potential argument with staff. Why take the risk – book a through ticket.

 

[yorkie]

I don't see buying split tickets as a risk, but doing your own itinerary and your own tickets is a potential risk, if nothing else of getting into a dispute that you have to resolve yourself.

I strongly advise obtaining a through itienerary and booking the journey as a through journey; there is no reason not to "split" but leave it up to the split ticketing websites to sort out; the itinerary provided by these sites is strong evidence of a binding contract and a good retailer would back up the passenger in the event of a dispute on a through itinerary (regardless of splits).

 

[Haywain]

At a minimum, you would want to have allowed the correct minimum connection time

Important to stress that it needs to be the minimum connection time for the time of day, which is likely to be a bit longer crossing London at times when missing a last train may be a risk.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Important to stress that it needs to be the minimum connection time for the time of day, which is likely to be a bit longer crossing London at times when missing a last train may be a risk.

Does the official connection time actually vary by time of day? They never used to.

They really should be published.

 

[Class800]

I thought there was some connections a longer time when tube has closed for the night?

 

[island]

Does the official connection time actually vary by time of day? They never used to.

They really should be published.

They do, for example Paddington to London Bridge is 55 minutes from 0700-1900, 1 hour 5 minutes from 0001-0529, and an hour at other times.

They can be viewed on BRTimes.com using the Station Info option, one must add the minimum connection time at each station plus the transfer duration. They may be on an official website too, but I’m not familiar with it.

 

[Haywain]

They may be on an official website too, but I’m not familiar with it.

An itinerary produced by NRE would adhere to such times.

 

[miklcct]

I don't see buying split tickets as a risk, but doing your own itinerary and your own tickets is a potential risk, if nothing else of getting into a dispute that you have to resolve yourself.

I strongly advise obtaining a through itienerary and booking the journey as a through journey; there is no reason not to "split" but leave it up to the split ticketing websites to sort out; the itinerary provided by these sites is strong evidence of a binding contract and a good retailer would back up the passenger in the event of a dispute on a through itinerary (regardless of splits).

There are some itineraries which split ticketing websites will give me a split with a paper ticket wholly within London zone 1-6 to make the cross-London transfer. This is a known rip off. Whenever I see such tickets offered I will not buy it, and make the cross-London connection by PAYG.

 

[General Zod]

Hopefully I wont be in a similar situation but I have a question closely related.
The journey I will be undertaking is Euston - Oban. Split tickets as follows :

London Euston - Crewe : LNWR
Crewe - Manchester Piccadilly : Northern ( 20 min wait at CRE)
Manchester Pic - Oxenholme LD : Northern ( 26 min wait at MAN)
Oxenholme LD - Glasgow Central : Avanti WC ( 38 min wait at OXN )

Arr GLC 1559 but can catch either the 1636 or 1823 from GLQ to Oban

If my train from Euston is late in at Crewe and because of the low frequency of CRE-MAN / MAN-OXN services I could easily arrive far too late into Glasgow and miss the last train to Oban which is at 1823. I would have no choice but to hail a taxi to Oban. Who would pay for it , LNWR who caused the initial delay ? I can envisage it being quite a arduous task try to claim a Glasgow-Oban taxi fare from them !

 

[Bletchleyite]

The splits don't matter, the TOC in the position to assist at the point you got stuck (ScotRail) would need to provide you a taxi or hotel.

Just make sure you already have the Glasgow-Oban ticket before you start at Euston, as if you don't then they have no responsibility at all.

What actual tickets do you have?

 

[Haywain]

If my train from Euston is late in at Crewe and because of the low frequency of CRE-MAN / MAN-OXN services I could easily arrive far too late into Glasgow and miss the last train to Oban which is at 1832. I would have no choice but to hail a taxi to Oban ( . Who would pay for it , LNWR who caused the initial delay ? I can envisage it being quite a arduous task try to claim a Glasgow-Oban taxi fare from them !

In the first instance, if you miss a connection on route you should speak to staff at that time, rather than simply letting the matter build up. It is quite possible that you would then be advised to travel on a different service in order to minimise your delay.

 

[Bletchleyite]

In the first instance, if you miss a connection on route you should speak to staff at that time, rather than simply letting the matter build up. It is quite possible that you would then be advised to travel on a different service in order to minimise your delay.

Agreed. In particular waiting 4 hours for the next Manchester-Oxenholme would be silly; you'd take the Barrow to Lancaster instead.

 

[Haywain]

Agreed. In particular waiting 4 hours for the next Manchester-Oxenholme would be silly; you'd take the Barrow to Lancaster instead.

If the connection was missed at Crewe, and there is an Avanti service later in the itinerary it is quite possible that the next Avanti service from Crewe would be the suggested solution, whether that be to Manchester or to Preston/Oxenholme/Glasgow.

 

[General Zod]

The splits don't matter, the TOC in the position to assist at the point you got stuck (ScotRail) would need to provide you a taxi or hotel.

Just make sure you already have the Glasgow-Oban ticket before you start at Euston, as if you don't then they have no responsibility at all.

What actual tickets do you have?

Tickets held :

EUS - CRE LNWR ADVANCE: dep 0746 arr 0953
CRE -MAN Northern Advance : dep 1017 arr 1121
MAN-OXN Northern Advance : dep 1147 arr 1331
OXN-GLC Avanti WC Advance : dep 1409 arr 1559

GLQ - OBN - Off Peak Return

 

[Watershed]

Tickets held :

EUS - CRE LNWR ADVANCE: dep 0746 arr 0953
CRE -MAN Northern Advance : dep 1017 arr 1121
MAN-OXN Northern Advance : dep 1147 arr 1331
OXN-GLC Avanti WC Advance : dep 1409 arr 1559

GLQ - OBN - Off Peak Return

Whilst of course an unhelpful member of staff might suggest you need to stick to those TOC restrictions, even if this means having to catch a taxi down the line, I'd like to hope that most staff would apply common sense and endorse your tickets for the next direct Avanti service if you miss your connection at Crewe. If you miss your connection in Manchester it's not such an issue - there are frequent Northern services to get you at least as far as Preston.