London to Edinburgh

[troglodyteadon]

Hello: thanks to a little bit of disorganization, I will be making the trip from London terminals to Edinburgh with the Return portions of two Super Offpeak Return tickets, leaving Friday and returning Sunday.

I've asked at various stations and gotten many contradictory answers (none resulting in getting me fined or kicked off the train...yet), so I turn to you: what *are* the valid trains for these tickets, particularly the London-Edinburgh trip, which I usually make with an OUT ticket?

Thank you very much! (And, say, who in the rail companies should I write to to ask that this information be made available to the ticket-buying public?)

 

[scotsman]

Sorry, I don't know the answer to this. However, it is not possible to be 'fined' - only charged the correct fare for your journey if you get a train you are not permitted to travel on.

You would only be kicked off if you refused to pay or give your name and address (if you boarded an invalid train)

 

[b0b]

The permitted routes are any route on map AS that you can trace without passing through the same station more than once. AS has a lot of choices...

http://www.atoc.org/clientfiles/File/RSPDocuments/maps.pdf.

In theory you should be allowed to go via Inverness but ATOC has in the past said you can not go north of the line between Glasgow & Edinburgh via Lenzie/Falkirk High/Linlithgow.. (aka. the amazing routeing question)

 

[90019]

The permitted routes are any route on map AS that you can trace without passing through the same station more than once. AS has a lot of choices...

http://www.atoc.org/clientfiles/File/RSPDocuments/maps.pdf.

In theory you should be allowed to go via Inverness but ATOC has in the past said you can not go north of the line between Glasgow & Edinburgh via Lenzie/Falkirk High/Linlithgow.. (aka. the amazing routeing question)

I think he's asking about times rather than where he can go.

 

[barrykas]

The restrictions are the same regardless of which "direction" the tickets are purchased, just for a change. Though obviously "reversed" depending on whether it's Edinburgh - London or London - Edinburgh.

London - Edinburgh carries validity code 9F, and Edinburgh - London carries code 1K.

The relevant restrictions are as follows:

NORTHBOUND: By any train scheduled to DEPART London Terminals between 0929 and 1457 inclusive & at or after 1859. Also allowed at or after 1815 on Fridays only. No restrictions apply at weekends and on public holidays.

SOUTHBOUND: By any train scheduled to ARRIVE at London Terminals at or after 1117 Mondays to Fridays. Any time at weekends and on public holidays.

As for publicity, a summary of the main restrictions can be found towards the bottom of this page on the East Coast website (from the Home Page, click "Ticket Options", then "Off-Peak Tickets" and finally the terms and conditions link).

HTH,

Barry

 

[scotsman]

And yes, the OUT ticket should be the London Terminals - Edinburgh ticket

 

[troglodyteadon]

Barry, thank you very much -- I had wondered how (or if) the direction of travel affected the restrictions!

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Presumably the OP will be travelling to Edinburgh from London King's Cross, but if travelling instead from London Euston, will be valid on any train at or after 0926 (so would be o.k. on the 0930 to Glasgow). Also, don't think that there would be any afternoon/early evening restrictions from London Euston to Edinburgh.

 

[John @ home]

Welcome to the forum, troglodyteadon!

I will be making the trip from London terminals to Edinburgh with the Return portions of two Super Offpeak Return tickets, leaving Friday and returning Sunday.

... what *are* the valid trains for these tickets, particularly the London-Edinburgh trip ... ?

The validity of the return portion of an Edinburgh - London Super Off-Peak Return (SSR) on a Friday is:

• from Kings Cross, Marylebone, or Paddington : Between 0929 and 1457 inclusive & at or after 1815.
• from Euston : At or after 0905.
• from St Pancras : Between 1026 and 1515 inclusive & at or after 1859.
• from Liverpool Street : Between 0930 and 1629 inclusive & at or after 1834.

The validity of the return portion of an London - Edinburgh Super Off-Peak Return (SSR) on a Sunday is:

• by any train.

who in the rail companies should I write to to ask that this information be made available to the ticket-buying public?

A very good question indeed.

You could write to the MDs of each of the Train Operating Companies (list here) and to their trade association ATOC. But I would be vary pleasantly surprised if this had any effect. They have had 15 years to get this right but, in my opinion, things are getting worse rather than better.

The technical defence from the companies is that the information is available for sale as a CD issued 3 times a year for £14.34, including postage and packing, from TSO here.

I don't find this satisfactory but I no longer believe that the rail industry is capable of sorting it. Despite the low esteem in which politicians are held at present, my own view is that eventually the industry will be compelled to make information like this freely available.

 

[troglodyteadon]

Euston would be fine, but surely it's included in "London terminals" above?

 

[scotsman]

Euston would be fine, but surely it's included in "London terminals" above?

It is indeed

 

[Mcr Warrior]

[*]from Euston : At or after 0905.

Isn't that the de-restriction time for North Wales destinations?

Euston would be fine, but surely it's included in "London terminals" above?

Understand that different London terminal stations have different time restrictions.

 

[John @ home]

Euston would be fine, but surely it's included in "London terminals" above?

Not in this case. See below.

It is indeed

That's not correct.

Isn't that the de-restriction time for North Wales destinations?

Yes, but not only these stations.

To clear up confusion, the complete wording of the Mon-Fri time restrictions for a London - Edinburgh or Edinburgh - London SSR is:

SOUTHBOUND – by any train scheduled to ARRIVE at or after

• London Terminals (except as shown below) 1117.
• London Liverpool Street 1000.
• London St Pancras 1129.
• London Euston 1005. Also valid on all First ScotRail Caledonian sleepers.

NORTHBOUND – by any train scheduled to DEPART:

• London Terminals (except as shown below) between 0929 and 1457 inclusive & at or after 1859. Also allowed at or after 1815 on Fridays only.
• London Liverpool Street between 0930 and 1629 inclusive & at or after 1834.
• London St Pancras between 1026 and 1515 inclusive & at or after 1859.
• London Euston at or after 0905.

 

[csilke]

who in the rail companies should i write to to ask that this information be made available to the ticket-buying public?

a very good question indeed.

You could write to the mds of each of the train operating companies (list here) and to their trade association atoc. But i would be vary pleasantly surprised if this had any effect. They have had 15 years to get this right but, in my opinion, things are getting worse rather than better.

The technical defence from the companies is that the information is available for sale as a cd issued 3 times a year for £14.34, including postage and packing, from tso here.

The details of most restrictions can be found at http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/pdfs/OffPeak.pdf.
The restrictions for a particular fare can be found at the very bottom of the 'Ticket terms & conditions' page for the fare on the NationalRail website.

 

[bengolding]

As others have pointed, travelling north from Euston seems to be the least restricted option. If you get the 09:30/11:30/13:30/15:30/17:30 Pendolinos from Euston to Carlisle, you have an official 15 minute connection onto the service from Birmingham to Edinburgh. End to end journey time isn't that bad either compared to East Coast - 4 hours 52 minutes. If your first train misses the connection, rail staff are obliged to get you to your destination.

Be warned if you get the service from Euston, don't forget to reserve a seat (you can reserve a seat on Virgin services upto 2 hours before departure). The above trains are notoriously overcorwded. If you don't have a seat, head for coach G in First Class as it probably will be declassified, and you get free wifi!

 

[John @ home]

The details of most restrictions can be found at http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/pdfs/OffPeak.pdf.

Many thanks for pointing this out, csilke! It will be very useful indeed on this forum. I notice that the pdf was created in September, so perhaps the information has been there for a couple of months without us noticing!

Do you know of any restrictions which are missing?

The restrictions for a particular fare can be found at the very bottom of the 'Ticket terms & conditions' page for the fare on the NationalRail website.

I have discovered that the web address varies by ticket type and restriction code. For example, an Off-Peak Return (SVR) with Restriction Code 8X is at http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/pdfs/SVR_8X.pdf. An Off-Peak Day Return (CDR) with Restriction Code B1 is at http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/pdfs/CDR_B1.pdf. A Super Off-Peak Return (OPR) with Restriction Code PU is at http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/pdfs/OPR_PU.pdf.

 

[bnm]

..... or what appears to be a fairly comprehensive list:

http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/pdfs/OffPeak.pdf

 

[csilke]

Do you know of any restrictions which are missing?

The ones for Advance fares are in http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/pdfs/Advance.pdf. There might be other files?