South Eastern High Speed and London Terminals Tickets

[youngpete]

I am seeking advice about travelling to Farringdon from Sittingbourne via St Pancras on HS1. If I try to book separately to Farringdon I get a totally different cost that either St Pancras or Blackfriars (which are the same and is a London Terminals ticket). However when looking on the National Rail Website the following appears.

Please note:

• Tickets issued to or from 'London Terminals' are only valid as described above, except if travel is allowed on Southeastern High Speed services (see below).
• Shoreditch High Street is not considered to be part of 'London Terminals'

Tickets for travel on High Speed services

Customers with tickets with an origin or destination of 'London Terminals' and routed "Plus High Speed" are also permitted to travel in either direction on Thameslink services between London St Pancras International and:

• Farringdon
• City Thameslink
• London Blackfriars
• Elephant & Castle
• London Bridge

This seems to suggest that a London Terminals ticket including High Speed is valid to Farringdon.

Any thoughts will be welcome.

Regards,

Peter

 

[Haywain]

This seems to suggest that a London Terminals ticket including High Speed is valid to Farringdon.

Any thoughts will be welcome.

That is what it says. However, as Farringdon is not a London Terminals station for the vast majority of fares I suspect that it is extremely difficult, if not impossible, to program journey planners to show the Plus High Speed fares to London Terminals as valid for journeys ending there.

 

[Hadders]

It's valid to Farringdon, but as @Haywain suggests it's unlikely that you will be able to get a ticketing website to sell a ticket to Farringdon. Just purchase the ticket from Sittingbourne to St Pancras via HS1, which will be issued with a destination of 'London Terminals'. The ticket should be returned at the St Pancras gateline which should allow you to pop down stairs at St Pancras and continue to Farringdon.

I travelled on HS1 last Saturday and can confirm that my ticket to 'London Terminals' was returned at the St Pancras gateline.

 

[ThisIsSurbiton]

It's valid to Farringdon, but as @Haywain suggests it's unlikely that you will be able to get a ticketing website to sell a ticket to Farringdon.

This question came up at work, and I think the NRE rule, and its 'internal' equivalent, could be worded better. I think (and the sometimes dodgy fare group permitted stations data agrees) that Farringdon is still not a London Terminal, even with a High Speed route, but that travel *through* Farringdon is allowed to get to the other side. Alternatively, it makes no sense to be in a hole in a fare group, so it is effectively a member when the price is right. But anyway, I do this to go to Farringdon with no problems.

 

[SAPhil]

The whole London Terminals/ Farringdon thing is a mess! I was looking at tickets from St Albans to City Thameslink and one of the options offered is a ticket valid from both St Albans stations to London Terminals - nothing to do with High Speed obviously!

 

[James H]

I travelled today from Elephant & Castle to Canterbury West via St Pancras (with a London Terminals ticket) and was pleasantly surprised that our tickets worked the Thamesink gateline at St Pancras - I was expecting to have to explain ourselves to staff.

 

[Hadders]

The whole London Terminals/ Farringdon thing is a mess! I was looking at tickets from St Albans to City Thameslink and one of the options offered is a ticket valid from both St Albans stations to London Terminals - nothing to do with High Speed obviously!

I can’t see any tickets from St Albans City to London Terminals, there are tickets from St Albans Abbey to London Terminals.

Tickets from St Albans City to London are issued to London Thameslink.

 

[30907]

I can’t see any tickets from St Albans City to London Terminals, there are tickets from St Albans Abbey to London Terminals.

Tickets from St Albans City to London are issued to London Thameslink.

There is a Season/Travelcard rate "AAA Abbey" to London Terminals - and NRE will offer it for a journey to CTK (and LBG, but not Victoria...).

 

[SAPhil]

There is a Season/Travelcard rate "AAA Abbey" to London Terminals - and NRE will offer it for a journey to CTK (and LBG, but not Victoria...).

That's the one! I was tempted to buy it and use it to get to Old Street but don't really need the hassle!

 

[Haywain]

That's the one! I was tempted to buy it and use it to get to Old Street but don't really need the hassle!

It would not be valid for travelling to Old Street.

 

[SAPhil]

Why not? Old Street counts as a London Terminal!

 

[sonic2009]

Why not? Old Street counts as a London Terminal!

Don't think it's on a permitted route.

 

[Haywain]

Why not? Old Street counts as a London Terminal!

Only for journeys from the Great Northern route.

 

[Hadders]

There is a Season/Travelcard rate "AAA Abbey" to London Terminals - and NRE will offer it for a journey to CTK (and LBG, but not Victoria...).

A Travelcard has a destination of ‘London Zones 1-6’ so is valid to any station in those zones.

I see there is a season ticket from St Albans City to London Terminals AAA St Albans Abbey. My view is that this ticket would only be valid as far as St Pancras on the MML, in addition to being valid into Euston via Watford Junction.

A season ticket from St Albans City to London Thameslink is valid as far south as London Bridge/Elephant & Castle via Thameslink. It isn’t valid into Euston via St Albans Abbey.

 

[Haywain]

My view is that this ticket would only be valid as far as St Pancras on the MML,

Exactly that - a ticket to London Terminals is not valid to go to or pass through Farringdon (unless it's routed Plus High Speed, of course).

 

[SAPhil]

I don't dispute that but the fact remains that one of the options presented on the Thameslink site when I look up season tickets to City Thameslink or London Bridge is to London Terminals!

 

[Hadders]

I don't dispute that but the fact remains that one of the options presented on the Thameslink site when I look up season tickets to City Thameslink or London Bridge is to London Terminals!
View attachment 101781

That is very poor from GTR.

 

[Haywain]

I don't dispute that but the fact remains that one of the options presented on the Thameslink site when I look up season tickets to City Thameslink or London Bridge is to London Terminals!
View attachment 101781

In such a case the ticket, contractually, will probably have to be seen as being valid. But you shouldn't be surprised to encounter difficulties if your ticket is checked between City Thameslink and St Pancras.

 

[30907]

That is very poor from GTR.

As I mentioned above, NRE offers the fare, so theoretically any retailer should.
GTR or their predecessors obviously intend the ticket to be valid through the core.

 

[Haywain]

GTR or their predecessors obviously intend the ticket to be valid through the core.

If they did they wouldn’t challenge people using them that way. There have been cases on these forums of people facing prosecution for making that use of tickets.

 

[ThisIsSurbiton]

A season ticket from St Albans City to London Thameslink is valid as far south as London Bridge/Elephant & Castle via Thameslink. It isn’t valid into Euston via St Albans Abbey.

And I think that's odd, given that Bedford (and only Bedford!) to Euston is valid on a London Thameslink ticket.

 

[Hadders]

As I mentioned above, NRE offers the fare, so theoretically any retailer should.
GTR or their predecessors obviously intend the ticket to be valid through the core.

It should be issued to London Thameslink if it is intended to be valid to City Thameslink.

 

[Haywain]

And I think that's odd, given that Bedford (and only Bedford!) to Euston is valid on a London Thameslink ticket.

It’s not a permitted route from St Albans City.

 

[youngpete]

Gents,

Many thanks for your replies to my initial query. Its been useful.

Regards.

 

[Joe Paxton]

As I mentioned above, NRE offers the fare, so theoretically any retailer should.
GTR or their predecessors obviously intend the ticket to be valid through the core.

I don't quite see how you draw that conclusion from the results of an erroneously coded booking engine.

 

[ThisIsSurbiton]

It’s not a permitted route from St Albans City.

Thanks, I wasn't expecting that - it seems to me to be as reasonable as many routes to the south of London. Historic, perhaps. Time for a routeing point and fare group?

 

[Hadders]

How would you get from St Albans to Old Street using National Rail only? It’s. It exactly in the line of route.

 

[SAPhil]

How would you get from St Albans to Old Street using National Rail only? It’s. It exactly in the line of route.

I believe the previous poster was referring to St Albans Abbey to Euston, however you could go St Albans to St Pancras, St Pancras to Finsbury Park, Finsbury Park to Old Street!

 

[kieron]

That is what it says. However, as Farringdon is not a London Terminals station for the vast majority of fares I suspect that it is extremely difficult, if not impossible, to program journey planners to show the Plus High Speed fares to London Terminals as valid for journeys ending there.

What makes it difficult? There are already "not HS1" tickets between Farringdon and Sittingbourne, so what would stop Southeastern from creating "Plus High Speed" ones?

 

[Wallsendmag]

What makes it difficult? There are already "not HS1" tickets between Farringdon and Sittingbourne, so what would stop Southeastern from creating "Plus High Speed" ones?

simply because you‘re coming from the wrong direction