Vending Machines on Trains

[Dai Corner]

Why not put them on stations, co-sited with ticket vending machines and sharing the power and data links and replenishment and maintenance staff?

 

[CrispyUK]

We saw vending machines on the Øresundståg service to Copenhagen a couple of years ago, however they were switched off and had signs attached saying they were due to be removed.

 

[Jozhua]

Had them on the long distance three car units here in Spain for some years, where there is insufficient room for a bar. They are efficient, reasonable cost and very successful.

There's a lot Spain does right about rail, frankly we should send delegations to study it because we could learn a few lessons!

SOB have vending machines on some of their longer distance units. The Voralpen Express (Lucerne - St Gallen) had them on the older stock as well as the recently introduced units.

How reliable they are, I don't know as I've only occasionally used the route, but given that the concept has moved onto the current fleet, it would suggest that the concept can work.

As someone else has already said, unfortunately, they would become something of a target for the knuckle draggers in the UK.

Yeah, I think it's reasonable to debate as to its use, but there is always a culture of not doing things in the UK, because doing things that may improve people's lives is tantamount to hubris.

 

[camflyer]

Why not put them on stations, co-sited with ticket vending machines and sharing the power and data links and replenishment and maintenance staff?

I really like the hot food vending machines "automatiek" at Dutch railway stations. Just what you need after a few beers before catching the last train home.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ec/Leiden_automatiek_2018.jpg

 

[Jozhua]

I really like the hot food vending machines "automatiek" at Dutch railway stations. Just what you need after a few beers before catching the last train home.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ec/Leiden_automatiek_2018.jpg

The more I learn about the Netherlands, the more I want to move there lol

 

[Bletchleyite]

The more I learn about the Netherlands, the more I want to move there lol

Having sort of lived there (weekly commuted for 9 months or so) I'd say it is the mainland* European country that is culturally closest to the UK (with Germany in second place) but they do seem to do passenger transport that bit better than us.

* to exclude Ireland which is very similar to the UK indeed.

 

[camflyer]

Having sort of lived there (weekly commuted for 9 months or so) I'd say it is the mainland* European country that is culturally closest to the UK (with Germany in second place) but they do seem to do passenger transport that bit better than us.

* to exclude Ireland which is very similar to the UK indeed.

Yes, I've spent a lot of time in the Netherlands with work. It really is such an easy place to visit and travel around. Everyone speaks perfect English and written and spoken Dutch is close enough to English that you can usually get the jist anyway.

 

[6Gman]

There was a BR trial back in the 1960's - not a success apparently due to shake , rattle and roll.

We actually tried to use it!

Pretty sure it was an overnight service in the West of England. Walked down to it, and it was empty!

I think this was one of the problems (along with reliability and spillage) - the limited stock was quickly exhausted, and restocking en route was much slower than for a manned miniature buffet.

 

[cle]

All over Japan of course. Platforms and stations (and the most obscure quiet locations) - but also on Shinkansen and some Limited Express trains I've seen, the named ones with their own stock.

They are best practice for more rail, but they don't have our destructive LCD culture sadly, and why we cna't have nice things (see 'Boris bikes' in Manchester) - perhaps they could be card/tap only to avoid a cash and theft situation. For pure vandalism, I'm not sure. Have them in the middle of trains, and turn them off after certain hours.

Catering trolleys can sell different things. But should not be shielded from innovation. Vending machines are a lot more efficient for cans and bottles of drinks, crisps, basics.

 

[Fyldeboy]

The other possible solution for hot drinks on trains that are busy enough to justify some catering staff onboard is online ordering with delivery to your seat from a central kitchen.

Back in late BR days I worked as a caterer based at Bristol, had a regular overnight XC HST to Paignton so it was running through Taunton etc at Brekkie time. There I was, one coach at a time asking anyone awake if they would like a cuppa, bacon roll etc.

 

[miklcct]

The only trains in the UK with running time long enough that I think it's worth to have catering service, are the trains between England and Scotland.

Anything that runs within England are just regional trains for me.

 

[75A]

What even Plymouth to Newcastle?

 

[Bletchleyite]

The only trains in the UK with running time long enough that I think it's worth to have catering service, are the trains between England and Scotland.

Anything that runs within England are just regional trains for me.

Some such services are, but I would say that London-Westcountry, London-Lake District/Carlisle, London-Newcastle and the XC examples already given are certainly long enough to be wanting a second cup of coffee!

 

[matacaster]

As the major cost is staffing on board a train, perhaps automated machines might be a useful addition as they are far more intelligent and reliable than they used to be.

 

[jon0844]

As the major cost is staffing on board a train, perhaps automated machines might be a useful addition as they are far more intelligent and reliable than they used to be.

I am surprised nobody has experimented with vending machines on a train here yet. Modern machines are pretty foolproof and don't fail when dispensing items.

Yes there is a more limited selection most of the time, but if you offer the most popular beverages and snacks then you're probably going to be okay.

 

[Metal_gee_man]

I am surprised nobody has experimented with vending machines on a train here yet. Modern machines are pretty foolproof and don't fail when dispensing items.

Yes there is a more limited selection most of the time, but if you offer the most popular beverages and snacks then you're probably going to be okay.

That's a can of worms, will a vending machine pay for the 6 or 8 seats removed to house it. Plus they couldn't be the traditional corkscrew style because they'll fail and the staff would take the brunt of some drunk not getting their can of drink or chocolate bar.
In addition off-sales still need age verification, and require staffing

 

[Re 4/4]

I am surprised nobody has experimented with vending machines on a train here yet. Modern machines are pretty foolproof and don't fail when dispensing items.

I think BLS does that in Switzerland?

 

[Bletchleyite]

I think BLS does that in Switzerland?

I wonder if there is more of a case for it in Switzerland, as one downside of a well planned Takt with short interchange times (but lowish frequencies) is that unless you want to wait around for half an hour or more you don't have time to pick stuff up at interchanges.

 

[jon0844]

That's a can of worms, will a vending machine pay for the 6 or 8 seats removed to house it. Plus they couldn't be the traditional corkscrew style because they'll fail and the staff would take the brunt of some drunk not getting their can of drink or chocolate bar.
In addition off-sales still need age verification, and require staffing

I've seen them abroad and they're usually in a large open area near accessible toilets/wheelchair areas, where there's clearly an intention to have lots of room for standees. I guess at busy times the vending machines are effectively unavailable, but no more so than a cafe bar (which these trains obviously do not have). When quieter, which is probably more when leisure travellers are on the train, they're easily accessed.

So, it isn't a case of does a vending machine pay for the 6 or 8 seats, but rather save even more seats for an onboard shop.

And, as I said, newer machines aren't the type that leave items hanging (silly thing is, with a proper sensor you can avoid that problem by continuing to rotate until an item drops anyway). The better ones drop an item into a container which is then moved over to a door that opens automatically - with sensors to ensure every part of the vending process works (right down to removing said order).

 

[TheSeeker]

The more I learn about the Netherlands, the more I want to move there lol

Vending machines here in Belgian stations sell beer! Although you need to put your ID card in to prove your age.

 

[Bill_Lestrange]

As already pointed out, Japan is particularly good at this, but then they have a "vendo" culture. Vending machines are everywhere. I mean you find them, fully stocked, ready to go, in villages with a population of 12 pensioners and a 24/7 convenience store. It's worth remembering that temperatures in Japan regularly hit 40 degrees C and having access to inexpensive water/cold tea is considered a necessity. I do wish that cold, unsweetened tea was more popular in the UK, but that is a total aside... I see that an Acure vending machine (which is JR East's Vending Machine brand) is at Northampton station!

Back to topic...
I seem to remember we talked about this in a meeting before Covid really hit - there were issues raised about unbalanced loads across the bogies. The wheel sets for an RKB wear out faster than a TSO/FO due to the heavier loading (catering equipment, fridges etc.). The main concern was that a vending machine tends to be fairly heavy, even one specially built into the carriage. Most vending machines are lightly refrigerated which adds a huge amount of weight to be carried. Plus restocking them is very laborious and they usually are the property of the vending machine company so stocking them/prices are very inflexible. So I think the ultimate answer is no to this. Better to have a trolley, or better still a counter with a trolley behind it (as EMT used to do at the weekend).

 

[robert thomas]

The Cambrian Coast Express used to have a coach fitted with a vending machine that ran between Aberystwyth and Shrewsbury and return in the early sixties.

 

[hexagon789]

The Cambrian Coast Express used to have a coach fitted with a vending machine that ran between Aberystwyth and Shrewsbury and return in the early sixties.

Yes, so the restaurant car could be removed at Shrewsbury and then only 4 coaches went forwards. A Mk1 SK had one compartment opened out and fitted with a bank of machines. Cold drinks, snacks and cigarettes only as I recall.

I have a Modern Railways of the period with an article about the trial.

 

[jon0844]

Maybe this is the future of catering?

Ocado has installed one at its HQ to serve 110 cooked meals per hour.


Picture of a robotic vending machine that prepares and cooks hot food ordered via an app.

 

[swt_passenger]

I assume any vending machines provided to XC would automatically switch off within an hour either side of New St to allow for stocktaking? Wouldn’t want to interfere with railway traditions…

 

[jon0844]

I assume any vending machines provided to XC would automatically switch off within an hour either side of New St to allow for stocktaking? Wouldn’t want to interfere with railway traditions…

Wait, did I ever suggest these things would actually be on and working?! I just said they should put them on trains didn't I?

 

[Ediswan]

Maybe this is the future of catering?

Ocado has installed one at its HQ to serve 110 cooked meals per hour.

View attachment 103255
Picture of a robotic vending machine that prepares and cooks hot food ordered via an app.

I did a bit of reading. It doesn't actually cook anything. What it does is assemble customised bowls from a modest number (17) of cold, or pre-cooked hot, ingredients. It will not be serving a Full English/Irish/Scottish/Welsh Breakfast.

https://www.thegrocer.co.uk/ocado/o...l-maker-at-hatfield-hq-canteen/660095.article

 

[jon0844]

I did a bit of reading. It doesn't actually cook anything. What it does is assemble customised bowls from a modest number (17) of cold, or pre-cooked hot, ingredients. It will not be serving a Full English/Irish/Scottish/Welsh Breakfast.

https://www.thegrocer.co.uk/ocado/o...l-maker-at-hatfield-hq-canteen/660095.article

Yes, it isn't that clever. But it will likely end up in lots of canteens in the coming years to cut costs.

 

[Jozhua]

Maybe this is the future of catering?

Ocado has installed one at its HQ to serve 110 cooked meals per hour.

View attachment 103255
Picture of a robotic vending machine that prepares and cooks hot food ordered via an app.

Probably easier to just have a vending machine and have people put things in the microwave themselves! Seems a bit space inefficient for a train...

I assume any vending machines provided to XC would automatically switch off within an hour either side of New St to allow for stocktaking? Wouldn’t want to interfere with railway traditions…

Of course!

Yes, it isn't that clever. But it will likely end up in lots of canteens in the coming years to cut costs.

Most offices have saved money at Canteens by eliminating them!

Robotics are very big capital investments, I can't see anytime soon where an army of these are deployed in restaurants!

 

[jon0844]

I can't see them in restaurants, but I am sure they could appear in those offices that do still have canteens (think big firms like Microsoft and Google.. indeed Google and Amazon would likely lap these up).

This is first gen stuff, and the selling point is you can customise the food and order it in advance and collect. Who knows if there might one day be an outdoor one next to an Amazon locker, but it's quite possible and likely probable that these machines, and variations copied by other firms, will one day become commonplace.

It's easier to automate things like this than build a fully, level 5, autonomous vehicle that can drive goods around. I think we've got a lot more time before that can happen safely and reliably.