ScotRail Industrial Relations issues (including conductor strike action)

[baz962]

But many/most buses on Sundays have drivers contracted to work that day.

Two bus companies serve my village. Neither run on a Sunday or a bank holiday. Guess their driver's must be on a permanent strike.

 

[Fokx]

Wouldn't it be great if Union representatives and long suffering passengers were able to officially meet face to face and express their views.

Why?
Working conditions of staff is nothing to do with the opinions of the passengers.

Such a meeting wouldn’t achieve anything as staff aren’t going to return to work because [passenger name] needs to go to [station name] on a Sunday

 

[Robertj21a]

Two bus companies serve my village. Neither run on a Sunday or a bank holiday. Guess their driver's must be on a permanent strike.

Presumably because it's not cost effective to provide a commercial service on Sundays? It's not going to be driver shortage if it never runs!

 

[Deltic1961]

Without passengers there will be no viable business.

You would think with the severe decline in revenue overall and the push towards the green agenda that this would be a priority to resolve, but it seems not.

On paper in an office somewhere it's theoretically saving money not running a Sunday service, but the long term damage and loss of confidence in Scotlands Railway will go far deeper.

 

[Robertj21a]

Without passengers there will be no viable business.

You would think with the severe decline in revenue overall and the push towards the green agenda that this would be a priority to resolve, but it seems not.

On paper in an office somewhere it's theoretically saving money not running a Sunday service, but the long term damage and loss of confidence in Scotlands Railway will go far deeper.

Certainly no point in buying a 8-day Freedom of Scotland Travel Pass.

 

[Deltic1961]

It's not just Sundays though. We live 6 miles from the City Centre and my son works in hospitality until 11pm. Last train is 22:50 every day so he had to end up buying a car and ditching his monthly pass.

 

[XAM2175]

You would think with the severe decline in revenue overall and the push towards the green agenda that this would be a priority to resolve, but it seems not.

Out of curiosity, how do you propose to resolve it?

If we are (at least mostly) correct in saying that this strike is a result of the RMT going back on their own agreement, it would seem to me that SR making concessions would effectively legitimise striking as a way to hold the public and government to ransom whenever it suited the RMT's members.

 

[Robertj21a]

Out of curiosity, how do you propose to resolve it?

If we are (at least mostly) correct in saying that this strike is a result of the RMT going back on their own agreement, it would seem to me that SR making concessions would effectively legitimise striking as a way to hold the public and government to ransom whenever it suited the RMT's members.

Isn't that how the RMT usually operates when they are fighting a losing battle? - or have I confused them with some other union?

 

[PHILIPE]

Why?
Working conditions of staff is nothing to do with the opinions of the passengers.

Such a meeting wouldn’t achieve anything as staff aren’t going to return to work because [passenger name] needs to go to [station name] on a Sunday

I should have worded it that it is a pity that passengers can't tell them to their faces what they think of being inconvenienced. I know it won't happen

 

[43066]

I should have worded it that it is a pity that passengers can't tell them to their faces what they think of being inconvenienced. I know it won't happen

But again, whatever you think of the merits of the dispute, the passengers’ ire should be directed at the company which owes them a duty, not to a trade union which is representing its members. I suspect the majority of passengers are clued up enough to realise that.

 

[Kite159]

Certainly no point in buying a 8-day Freedom of Scotland Travel Pass.

Although not like you can buy one of those rangers at the moment as they are still withdrawn from sale due to covid

 

[Journeyman]

The only way this can be resolved is for ScotRail to impose new contracts with rostered Sundays.

 

[Robertj21a]

Although not like you can buy one of those rangers at the moment as they are still withdrawn from sale due to covid

I know, but l guess that Covid concerns may reduce enough to allow it to restart well before this strike is ever likely to be resolved !

 

[wobman]

The only way this can be resolved is for ScotRail to impose new contracts with rostered Sundays.

Imposing anything like that would cause industrial action by all unions involved, negotiating Sundays as part of the working week is a far better option

 

[STINT47]

Scotrail must be asking themself how can we negotiate with the RMT when they don't honour their word.

If an overtime agreement was negotiated and agreed but the RMT has now decided to disregard it and call new action then any new agreement and concessions will not bs worth the paper it's written on.

Once bitten twice shy when dealing with the RMT.

 

[Bikeman78]

Because the industry is costing a fortune to run, and it's cheaper to wait until the staff decide to return to work, which they will eventually.

This occurred to me as well. Not running anything probably costs less than running the service so Scotrail is happy to let the guards carry on. Difficult to see how the guards will win this one.

 

[Bald Rick]

I can see three outcomes.

1) this develops into a wider dispute about pay / conditions / rostered Sundays or similar

2) those in dispute realise there are bigger fish to fry (eg keeping their jobs)

3) sufficient drivers are available to fill the roster, the enhanced RDW payment agreement for drivers comes to an end, and the RMT achieve their objective of equal treatment, albeit not in the way they were expecting.

 

[mcmad]

Scotrail must be asking themself how can we negotiate with the RMT when they don't honour their word.

If an overtime agreement was negotiated and agreed but the RMT has now decided to disregard it and call new action then any new agreement and concessions will not bs worth the paper it's written on.

Once bitten twice shy when dealing with the RMT.

Has it actually been confirmed anywhere that this is what has happened or just forum gossip? Surely if the RMT had gone back on a previous agreement Scotrail/TS would be publicising it whereas its just radio silence other than the bland 'no services on Sunday due to RMT industrial action'.

 

[Starmill]

The longer the action goes on for at least, the more likely it is that more routes can be converted to operation without conductors, which would reduce costs on weekdays as well as Sundays.

 

[Watershed]

Has it actually been confirmed anywhere that this is what has happened or just forum gossip? Surely if the RMT had gone back on a previous agreement Scotrail/TS would be publicising it whereas its just radio silence other than the bland 'no services on Sunday due to RMT industrial action'.

The RMT have stated that this is about their "fight for pay equality with other grades".

The Scotsman has reported that this concerns "the dispute over conductors and ticket examiners being paid less than drivers for working on days off".

See @LowLevel's comment earlier this year.

 

[wobman]

Scotrail must be asking themself how can we negotiate with the RMT when they don't honour their word.

If an overtime agreement was negotiated and agreed but the RMT has now decided to disregard it and call new action then any new agreement and concessions will not bs worth the paper it's written on.

Once bitten twice shy when dealing with the RMT.

Can you show your source for this ? Otherwise it's just speculating and doesn't add to the debate.

 

[24Grange]

But surely conductors and ticket examiners are on a lower grade than drivers anyway?

 

[Class360/1]

But surely conductors and ticket examiners are on a lower grade than drivers anyway?

Exactly

 

[Watershed]

But surely conductors and ticket examiners are on a lower grade than drivers anyway?

They're on a lower wage/salary, yes. I don't think the RMT are complaining about that here.

But the RMT want conductors to continue to receive time and a half for RDW, as the drivers do.

 

[Tw99]

With all the changes in franchising, DFT involvement etc, is there even any organisation that feels responsible for resolving the issue ? Any loss is presumably covered by the taxpayer, so who is motivated to actually fix it in the short term?

 

[Robertj21a]

Scotrail must be asking themself how can we negotiate with the RMT when they don't honour their word.

If an overtime agreement was negotiated and agreed but the RMT has now decided to disregard it and call new action then any new agreement and concessions will not bs worth the paper it's written on.

Once bitten twice shy when dealing with the RMT.

Isn't this a key part of the issue? - why should the management trust the RMT ?
Looks like it will just drag on for many more months.

 

[Bald Rick]

RMT are in a difficult place. There’s no chance of Transport Scotland shifting - they don’t have the cash. When their members realise that, and realise the money they are losing from not working, and realise that the rail industry post Covid is going to be a very different place, I can see many of them goin gback to work.

 

[wobman]

The conductors are still working the normal hours and earning their basic wage, they are only losing out overtime payments for Sunday working.
I don't know what the ScotRail depot commitment is but it can vary from 1 in 3 to 1 in 6 Sundays as committed overtime.

I don't think some posters understand what's actually going on in this dispute, it's not as black and white as some seem to think.

 

[Deltic1961]

Well can someone please post a summary in plain English so those following the thread can decide if it's a legitimate dispute or not?

 

[Starmill]

the rail industry post Covid is going to be a very different place

What confuses me so much is why so many people in the industry who are closely linked to the operational railway haven't yet realised this, or haven't realised how significant it is. As far as I can see the much-maligned consultants, and what might be termed the 'managerial classes' at the owning groups, have been well on top of it for the past year. There's already significant evidence written down in public, and more in the background chat if you know where to look or who to listen to.