Covid restrictions to end on 19th July

[bramling]

As a teacher, in my experience, I would say the damage to the education of the children really is minimal. I wouldn't always believe what the media is portraying regarding education.

Notwithstanding the impact on education, the impact on those preparing for exams has been catastrophic. That’s bad enough in itself.

I can’t begin to imagine how I’d have felt to have spent years preparing for an exam, and then having the rug pulled from underneath.

 

[farleigh]

I chose to stop wearing a mask on June 21st.

I was nervous going to Sainsbury's without a mask as they had security on the door. As I approached the door, he called out 'Have you forgotten your mask'. I replied that I was exempt and he didn't comment further.

Inside the shop, nobody seemed to notice and I enjoyed shopping mask free. Felt very liberating.

I have chosen not to wear one at work either. Work has said that you must wear them in communal areas but I do not do that. I did have one comment from an avid maskman but other than that nothing.

I feel better because I think the mask mandate is silly and now I am sticking to my beliefs.

 

[VauxhallandI]

I chose to stop wearing a mask on June 21st.

I was nervous going to Sainsbury's without a mask as they had security on the door. As I approached the door, he called out 'Have you forgotten your mask'. I replied that I was exempt and he didn't comment further.

Inside the shop, nobody seemed to notice and I enjoyed shopping mask free. Felt very liberating.

I have chosen not to wear one at work either. Work has said that you must wear them in communal areas but I do not do that. I did have one comment from an avid maskman but other than that nothing.

I feel better because I think the mask mandate is silly and now I am sticking to my beliefs.

Don’t you just love the condescending comment “have you forgotten your mask”.

Yes after a year of continuous bombardment of sanctimonious **** I’ve just forgotten all about....

 

[Ianno87]

Don’t you just love the condescending comment “have you forgotten your mask”.

Yes after a year of continuous bombardment of sanctimonious **** I’ve just forgotten all about....

Better than a confrontational / direct "are you exempt?" which would be less comfortable to answer for those with genuine exemptions.

 

[VauxhallandI]

Better than a confrontational / direct "are you exempt?" which would be less comfortable to answer for those with genuine exemptions.

I’d prefer the direct question rather than the snide option, personal preference

 

[Ianno87]

I’d prefer the direct question rather than the snide option, personal preference

"Snide".

It's a genuine, polite way of phrasing the question without pressuring people into having to reveal personal information that they may not be comfortable with...

 

[Bikeman78]

Well I teach in lab at University level, and I can say that we might as well not have bothered trying to teach lab via Zoom.
In any case, the Graun are laying it on rather thick

I'm confused by the lady called Eve in this item who says she will be housebound. Masks have never been required outside and the majority of people do not wear them outside. I agree that it will be different in shops but that doesn't mean she will be housebound.

 

[bramling]

Better than a confrontational / direct "are you exempt?" which would be less comfortable to answer for those with genuine exemptions.

I had an experience at the entrance to my office the other week. There is no official requirement to wear masks in the building (and nor is there any value, as it’s very rare to come face-to-face with anyone). However, one office took it upon themselves to plaster the building with “you must wear your mask” signage.

So upon entering the building, out of courtesy I held the door open, to be grunted at, and then “I’m just putting my mask on, take it you forgot yours?”, which I found pretty rude, and made my feelings quite clear, including my thoughts on taking health advice from people who routinely use the doorstep as a smoking facility...

 

[Ianno87]

I had an experience at the entrance to my office the other week. There is no official requirement to wear masks in the building (and nor is there any value, as it’s very rare to come face-to-face with anyone). However, one office took it upon themselves to plaster the building with “you must wear your mask” signage.

So upon entering the building, out of courtesy I held the door open, to be grunted at, and then “I’m just putting my mask on, take it you forgot yours?”, which I found pretty rude, and made my feelings quite clear, including my thoughts on taking health advice from people who routinely use the doorstep as a smoking facility...

On this and multiple Covid related subjects, there appear to be many, many issues at your workplace that could be better handled directly than repeatedly whingeing about them on a public forum...

 

[lxfe_mxtterz]

On the subject of whether people will continue to wear masks, I just came across this (linked) post on Facebook asking "Will you still wear a mask after July 19?" The majority of the responses appear to be 'yes', however I don't know how representative of the general population this is... an interesting read to observe opinions on the matter, regardless.

Sussex Live

Boris Johnson will speak on the matter today

www.facebook.com

(You do not need to log into Facebook to view the post, despite what it says.)

 

[_toommm_]

Yes after a year of continuous bombardment of sanctimonious **** I’ve just forgotten all about....

You do still get a lot of people who’ve forgotten. When I did my part of my shifts on the front door, I’d ask ‘are you able to wear a mask please?’ if there wasn’t a lanyard/badge, or something obvious. Lots of people ‘forget them’ or ‘leave it in their car’.

Even to this day we still get people tiptoeing a few steps into the building and asking if we have any spare as they’ve forgotten them.

 

[43066]

I’d prefer the direct question rather than the snide option, personal preference

Or even better yet shop staff wind their necks in and stop asking at all! It isn’t their job to police this. In just the same way as I don’t walk around stations asking people where their masks are.

On this and multiple Covid related subjects, there appear to be many, many issues at your workplace that could be better handled directly than repeatedly whingeing about them on a public forum...

That’s a little unfair. This is a discussion forum where we discuss peoples’ experiences, at work and elsewhere.

 

[VauxhallandI]

"Snide".

It's a genuine, polite way of phrasing the question without pressuring people into having to reveal personal information that they may not be comfortable with...

I disagree

 

[Bikeman78]

Don’t you just love the condescending comment “have you forgotten your mask”.

Yes after a year of continuous bombardment of sanctimonious **** I’ve just forgotten all about....

There hasn't been anyone at the door of Sainsburys for a few weeks now. Same at M&S. Inside M&S all the arrows have gone and the long queue system for the checkouts has gone too.

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

Or even better yet shop staff wind their necks in and stop asking at all! It isn’t their job to police this. In just the same way as I don’t walk around stations asking people where their masks are.



That’s a little unfair. This is a discussion forum where we discuss peoples’ experiences, at work and elsewhere.

How about looking at it from their position (yes, I know it’s hard) and consider how stressful it must be for people who have to work in a room in which hundreds of different people come and go all day, wondering what airborne niceties they’re sharing with you?

 

[brad465]

Sajid Javid seems to be being honest about what's expected in future with regards to covid, but at the same time it was Johnson being honest (yeah I know) in March 2020 that heaped on the pressure for lockdown. Johnson said "many loved ones will die before their time", and the next day every front page quoted it as the headline. Javid has admitted forecasts of around 50,000 cases a day by July 19th, and up to 100,000 per day around a month later IIRC.

While in the face of vaccines and the simple reality that humans can only do so much this shouldn't be a concern/surprise, I'd expect huge amounts of fear hyping to try and force the Government's hand like has happened so many times since that Johnson remark last year.

 

[VauxhallandI]

How about looking at it from their position (yes, I know it’s hard) and consider how stressful it must be for people who have to work in a room in which hundreds of different people come and go all day, wondering what airborne niceties they’re sharing with you?

Airborne niceties, lovely.

Maybe it’s time for those with extreme views to remove themselves from normal society

 

[DerekC]

I'd be very surprised if this page wasn't updated on/for the 19th - all the references to "must" will obviously disappear (ditto enforcement, exemptions and other references scattered throughout) but I expect that there'll remain bits in there around situations where they're recommended, in addition to the 'how they work' stuff and how to make/maintain/dispose of them. I may have to eat a hat (or mask!) on the 19th though - we will see

I doubt you will have to eat your hat but I wish they would get on with it and issue the advice. I have been looking after the Covid precautions in our local village hall and we (the Trustees) need to know what the advice is and what responsibilities to our hirers we are taking on when deciding on policies after 19th July. Does it all go back to normal or are there still extra precautions we should take? There seems to be an obsession with mask wearing. Do we say that it's a free for all or up to individual hirers of the hall to decide? There are lots of other things, too. Current guidance says we should take the curtains down (we did). Can we put them back up again (don't know)? Do we need to retain extra cleaning? (probably). Do we need to keep the track and trace QR code and log book (don't know). Should we limit numbers at a private party? (don't know). It will all be a last minute rush again, and it isn't as if they haven't had months to think about it.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 6 Jul 2021 ==

Airborne niceties, lovely.

Maybe it’s time for those with extreme views to remove themselves from normal society

Where are you off to?

 

[43066]

How about looking at it from their position (yes, I know it’s hard) and consider how stressful it must be for people who have to work in a room in which hundreds of different people come and go all day, wondering what airborne niceties they’re sharing with you?

If people are hypochondriac enough to stress about working in a shop floor environment they are in the wrong job. It’s not as if masks make much (if any) difference and by now they will now have had the opportunity to be vaccinated.

In any case I’d suggest the staff taking it upon themselves to order customers about aren’t stressed, at all, they just enjoy being jobsworths.

 

[MikeWM]

Airborne niceties, lovely.

Maybe it’s time for those with extreme views to remove themselves from normal society

There are a lot of people now who view any other human being as dangerous and a potential threat to them, merely by virtue of existing.

That's the most nefarious and, quite frankly, evil, change that the behavioural scientists and psychologists and the media and the government have created in the minds of many.

I fear this will now be with us for far longer than covid. Masks are just the most obvious manifestation of this fear.

 

[NorthOxonian]

On the subject of whether people will continue to wear masks, I just came across this (linked) post on Facebook asking "Will you still wear a mask after July 19?" The majority of the responses appear to be 'yes', however I don't know how representative of the general population this is... an interesting read to observe opinions on the matter, regardless.

Sussex Live

Boris Johnson will speak on the matter today

www.facebook.com

(You do not need to log into Facebook to view the post, despite what it says.)

It's hard to say - bear in mind another possibility is that those comments are representative of Sussex but not the country as a whole. It is pretty likely that in late July there will be some places where almost no-one wears a mask, and some places where many people do. I've already seen first hand huge variations in mask usage both where it is mandated and where it is not - in Oxford most people wore them outside last autumn whereas on a recent trip to Scarborough I found most people didn't wear them even where required. I don't know whether Sussex is likely to be an area with many mask wearers - I certainly wouldn't like to guess whether it was more like Oxford or Scarborough!

I'll be honest though, when I read those comments I became too enraged to continue after the second comment. This argument that we should masks because they do it in Asia infuriates me. Perhaps those who espouse it should emigrate if they're that desperate to live in a masked country? I can understand people who want us to keep them a few months longer, even if I might not fully agree - but making them a permanent part of society is beyond the pale in my opinion.

 

[farleigh]

Better than a confrontational / direct "are you exempt?" which would be less comfortable to answer for those with genuine exemptions.

You are not entitled to ask if I am genuinely exempt though,

Hence I am exempt

 

[Bayum]

How many school staff are so ill that they cannot be vaccinated? Wouldn’t be easier to exclude those who are “extremely vulnerable” rather than having hundreds of thousands of children sitting at home (it’s actually over 600,000 today not 400,000 as I said earlier).

As for people who “don’t develop antibodies in response to the vaccine”. That sounds rather like you’re questioning the efficacy of the vaccine…

So someone who has trained and given years of dedication to their job should be turfed out if they can’t have the vaccine?
I’m not questioning the efficacy; I’m pointing out that there are large groups of the population who were/are CEV and haven’t developed antibodies due to immune suppression for whatever reason.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Jul 2021 ==

When will it be safe for them, do you think? I mean, if it’s not safe now, it never will be. Covid is here to stay and the world got riskier overnight for those of us who have underlying health conditions.

When the government is not expecting numbers to rise to whatever astronomical number Sajid plucks out of the sky in his next interview…

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Jul 2021 ==

We don't shut down society for any other respiratory illnesses, which for people who are so vulnerable that they cannot be vaccinated, are potentially even more of a concern than C19.

Well, actually, we’ve been good at controlling respiratory illnesses in the past… influenza, measles etc.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Jul 2021 ==

The extremely vulnerable will have been offered both doses, or if they can't have it will have access to medical advice on how to best protect themselves. But most people who haven't been offered the vaccine will be children, who are least at risk of all age groups. Perhaps its time to stop trying to spin some more sensational strap lines?

As I’ve pointed out - there will be large numbers of the CEVs who have not developed an antibody response to the vaccine due to medication/disease.

 

[43066]

So someone who has trained and given years of dedication to their job should be turfed out if they can’t have the vaccine?

If someone is simultaneously so ill then cannot have a vaccine, and yet able to work as a teacher (a fairly small venn overlap one suspects) then yes, perhaps a school isn’t the right place for them to be. They’re probably going to be at risk from other easily contracted minor ailments.

I’m not questioning the efficacy; I’m pointing out that there are large groups of the population who were/are CEV and haven’t developed antibodies due to immune suppression for whatever reason.

But we are now at a point where all the vulnerable and the overwhelming majority of adults have been vaccinated. There’s little more that can reasonably be done.

When the government is not expecting numbers to rise to whatever astronomical number Sajid plucks out of the sky in his next interview…

Case numbers will rise whenever restrictions are lifted; you do realise you are basically arguing for perpetual restrictions?

Well, actually, we’ve been good at controlling respiratory illnesses in the past… influenza, measles etc.

Good at controlling influenza?! Ha! You do realise it kills tens of thousands of people every year in the U.K., and hundreds of thousands world wide…

We are lucky Covid is nowhere near as lethal as the Spanish flu, that wiped out more people than the First World War.

 

[yorkie]

So someone who has trained and given years of dedication to their job should be turfed out if they can’t have the vaccine?
I’m not questioning the efficacy; I’m pointing out that there are large groups of the population who were/are CEV and haven’t developed antibodies due to immune suppression for whatever reason.

Given this virus is endemic, and cannot be eliminated, what do you suggest?

Well, actually, we’ve been good at controlling respiratory illnesses in the past… influenza, measles etc.

I don't understand what you mean as this sentence includes two completely different viruses which affect us very differently.

Influenza kills thousands of people annually (depending on how you measure it, it's only a matter of time before influenza deaths exceed coronavirus deaths again); we have a high level of population immunity but the virus mutates very rapidly and constantly evades immunity enough to continue to circulate in a state of seasonal endemic equilibrium. However due to the existence of multiple strains, and the way the immune system works, it would be totally impractical to eliminate it. Full herd immunity against all strains of influenza is not feasible.

Measles is rather different and can been eliminated if the full herd immunity threshold being reached; this is close to being the case in the UK however there are enough people who lack immunity to allow some outbreaks to occur. As with influenza, but unlike Sars-CoV-2, multiple strains exist and recent outbreaks tend to be of the B3 Dublin strain.

Fortunately there is only one strain of Sars-CoV-2, though it is - as entirely expected - still adapting through a process of natural selection, to improve fitness in humans. It does not mutate as quickly as influenza but it seems implausible that it can be eliminated through full herd immunity. Instead we are almost certainly heading for a state of endemic seasonal equilibrium, just as we have with the four pre-existing human coronaviruses. The difference is that this time around we have highly effective vaccines, so we can transition from the pandemic to equilibrium state in record time.

Sars-CoV-2 can no more be eliminated than other human coronaviruses such as OC43, which is now widely believed to have caused a pandemic approximately 130 years ago, so any talk of eliminating it is pure fantasy in my opinion.

 

[bramling]

On this and multiple Covid related subjects, there appear to be many, many issues at your workplace that could be better handled directly than repeatedly whingeing about them on a public forum...

I already said I did handle it directly, by making my feelings quite clear. How more direct could I have been than that?

On the subject in hand, there is no (legal or company) requirement to wear masks in the building concerned. Therefore I don’t wear one, and haven’t done so. If people choose to start making up their own policies then that really is their own problem.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Jul 2021 ==

It's hard to say - bear in mind another possibility is that those comments are representative of Sussex but not the country as a whole. It is pretty likely that in late July there will be some places where almost no-one wears a mask, and some places where many people do. I've already seen first hand huge variations in mask usage both where it is mandated and where it is not - in Oxford most people wore them outside last autumn whereas on a recent trip to Scarborough I found most people didn't wear them even where required. I don't know whether Sussex is likely to be an area with many mask wearers - I certainly wouldn't like to guess whether it was more like Oxford or Scarborough!

I'll be honest though, when I read those comments I became too enraged to continue after the second comment. This argument that we should masks because they do it in Asia infuriates me. Perhaps those who espouse it should emigrate if they're that desperate to live in a masked country? I can understand people who want us to keep them a few months longer, even if I might not fully agree - but making them a permanent part of society is beyond the pale in my opinion.

The Oxford versus Sussex versus Scarborough thing is quite interesting. We were in Wales last month, and were quite surprised how many people *weren’t* using masks (including in situations where mandated). Indeed the whole atmosphere was pretty normal - apart from masks and the obligatory signage in shop front windows, you wouldn’t really have known there was anything unusual, and certainly not from interactions and behaviours.

The Home Counties seem to be a bit of an outlier, in my experience (I’d count both Oxford and Sussex as an extension of that). I suspect it correlates to the numbers of people who have been living a rather sheltered work from home existence.

 

[Bantamzen]

How about looking at it from their position (yes, I know it’s hard) and consider how stressful it must be for people who have to work in a room in which hundreds of different people come and go all day, wondering what airborne niceties they’re sharing with you?

I'm sorry to tell you but for the entire time the human race has existed, we have been carrying pathogens around with us. In fact most life does that, it is just a reality of existence.

If some are frightened by that thought it is up to them to mitigate their own lives around that, not everyone else.

Well, actually, we’ve been good at controlling respiratory illnesses in the past… influenza, measles etc.

In the winter of 2017/18 over 50K died of influenza, and that is with vaccines. I don't remember the lockdowns or masks during that period though.

As I’ve pointed out - there will be large numbers of the CEVs who have not developed an antibody response to the vaccine due to medication/disease.

And as I've pointed out those who are vulnerable will, or at least should be having discussions with their medical practitioners. That's what they are there for.

 

[DelayRepay]

I’d prefer the direct question rather than the snide option, personal preference

The woman in my local shop is very good at this. She gets their attention then discreetly points to her own mask. This normally results in the person mouthing 'exempt', or saying 'ooops' and digging into their pocket for a mask.

I don't think she likes masks though. Someone has added a hand-written note to the 'please wear a mask' sign saying 'only two more weeks'!

 

[NorthKent1989]

If someone is simultaneously so ill then cannot have a vaccine, and yet able to work as a teacher (a fairly small venn overlap one suspects) then yes, perhaps a school isn’t the right place for them to be. They’re probably going to be at risk from other easily contracted minor ailments.



But we are now at a point where all the vulnerable and the overwhelming majority of adults have been vaccinated. There’s little more that can reasonably be done.



Case numbers will rise whenever restrictions are lifted; you do realise you are basically arguing for perpetual restrictions?



Good at controlling influenza?! Ha! You do realise it kills tens of thousands of people every year in the U.K., and hundreds of thousands world wide…

We are lucky Covid is nowhere near as lethal as the Spanish flu, that wiped out more people than the First World War.

The world isn’t the right place by your logic, there’s viruses everywhere if we viruses and germs actually saw them with the naked eye then we’d probably never leave the house, should people just stay home forever then? Give up their dream jobs? Covid is a new respiratory illness we must live with.

Cases will rise yes, but that doesn’t necessarily mean that we need further restrictions, after July 19th there’s little justification in extending restrictions.

Yes influenza does kill thousands every year, yet I don’t recall lockdowns in previous years, we just have to get on with and while the NHS does what it’s supposed to be doing, and no travel restrictions either, individuals stay home until they’re better, Covid isn’t even like the flu yet you’re worried about restrictions being lifted because cases will rise? You’ve contradicted yourself here.

 

[yorksrob]

Reading the various comments in the press from the pro-mask faction, its generally surprising how much belief they have in them. Particularly given:

- They were only ever a precautionary measure at controlling transmission, given the shakey evidence for their effectiveness (at least the way the public wears them) and
- Even without vaccines they were always a long way down the food chain in terms of control measures (behind self isolation etc)

They have undoubtedly become a placebo for many people.