Covid restrictions to end on 19th July

[Mat17]

I suspect the fallout amongst the children/teens from this pandemic and lockdown will be felt for several decades, be that social/emotional issues or lost education etc.

Schools will be tackling these deficiencies for the next decade-15 years at least. When do the current 4 year olds graduate? 2036 or so?

 

[Ianno87]

I suspect the fallout amongst the children/teens from this pandemic and lockdown will be felt for several decades, be that social/emotional issues or lost education etc.

Schools will be tackling these deficiencies for the next decade-15 years at least. When do the current 4 year olds graduate? 2036 or so?

My 4.y.o. would graduate in 2037 (assuming a 3 year degree with no gap year etc)

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 6 Jul 2021 ==

That has been very difficult for her to the point that her mental health did hit rock bottom especially during the final lockdown. She isn't the only one and is actually still on a waiting list for an external agency that the school has brought on board to provide support. But the fact that we are now in July and she is still a number on the list shows how big the problem is and that is just one school!

Hope she gets the help she needs and gets back on track.

This is what frustrated me so much about the "close the schools!" brigade back at Christmas time.

 

[Mat17]

Yes, I forgot about FS2/Reception class, you are right 2037.

 

[Bayum]

I’d say that example shows the ludicrousness of expecting children and teachers to isolate at all. It’s causing goodness knows how much damage to education, with something like 400,000 children off at the moment, after months and months of disruption.

We know the virus poses a negligible risk to children and all teachers at risk will now have been vaccinated, so what on Earth purpose is served by asking schoolchildren to stay at home?

You mean besides those children/staff who can’t have a vaccine/who haven’t developed the antibodies in response to the vaccine/those who are extremely vulnerable?

 

[NorthKent1989]

My nephew will be starting school in 2025/2026, and will graduate in 2039, I hope by then, this Covid mess will be over and his school time will be far less disrupted in what will be the post Covid era.

I’m a TA in various special needs schools and some pupils I worked with before Covid were shining through and doing really well with social skills and their academia, the lockdowns have had a negative edge on those particular students because their routine has been interrupted and their anxiety levels has risen.

This has set them back not just 18 months but whole years of development; educationally, emotionally and mentally, and it’s upsetting to see this happen.

 

[edwin_m]

No one is asking you or anyone else to make up any rules. You just decide whether or not you wish to wear a mask and do so accordingly. End of matter.

But if everyone is applying their own rules, in a choice that might a big difference to other people (depending which set of "evidence" you choose to believe). Who is to say who's right?

It's like saying that everyone can make their own decision on whether to smoke in an indoor public place.

 

[NorthKent1989]

It's clear from the government announcements over the last couple of days that a substantial amount of work has been done on estimating the scale of the exit wave. So why keep it under wraps? If they are expecting us to use our best judgement, surely we need to be presented with the data which has been used to justify the removal of restrictions?

But then at what point do we use our own judgment? That point has to arrive at some stage and can’t be delayed any further.

I think this is the best way forward that way if those who want to wear masks can continue to do so, but the time has come where we have to move on from Covid and accept it as being part of our lives

 

[Bantamzen]

You mean besides those children/staff who can’t have a vaccine/who haven’t developed the antibodies in response to the vaccine/those who are extremely vulnerable?

The extremely vulnerable will have been offered both doses, or if they can't have it will have access to medical advice on how to best protect themselves. But most people who haven't been offered the vaccine will be children, who are least at risk of all age groups. Perhaps its time to stop trying to spin some more sensational strap lines?

 

[brad465]

It's worth pointing out that not everyone who wears masks is a "good person" (as in they believe it's in their best intentions to wear one). There have been reports that shoplifters have benefitted from mask mandates, and it would not be surprising if other forms of petty crime have as well.

Of course there was a time where face coverings (usually helmets) were banned from high street banks, and Bluewater shopping centre banned hoodies on the grounds that they can aid crime/intimidation. Now mask mandates have thrown those up in the air.

 

[Ianno87]

It's worth pointing out that not everyone who wears masks is a "good person" (as in they believe it's in their best intentions to wear one). There have been reports that shoplifters have benefitted from mask mandates, and it would not be surprising if other forms of petty crime have as well.

Of course there was a time where face coverings (usually helmets) were banned from high street banks, and Bluewater shopping centre banned hoodies on the grounds that they can aid crime/intimidation. Now mask mandates have thrown those up in the air.

Have to admit, when masks came in I did remember being in the shopping centre in Stafford in 2006 and a group of "hoodies" being asked to remove scarves covering their face!

I guess with everybody wearing masks, those who would've previously worn masks/hoods to be "intimidating" suddenly aren't so effective when everybody including their own granny is doing it... If anything, this demographic is more likely to be the rebellious chin-slinger type...

 

[XAM2175]

Of course there was a time where face coverings (usually helmets) were banned from high street banks, and Bluewater shopping centre banned hoodies on the grounds that they can aid crime/intimidation. Now mask mandates have thrown those up in the air.

On that topic, the continuing interest in AI facial recognition and its applications for police and security services is why I'm not at all concerned about mask requirements remaining in place long-term.

 

[Ianno87]

On that topic, the continuing interest in AI facial recognition and its applications for police and security services is why I'm not at all concerned about mask requirements remaining in place long-term.

Similar reason to why the previous obsession with school attendance has suddenly been thrown out of the window over the last 15 months...

 

[Yew]

Get a little bit irritated when people are now resorting to the Long Covid argument now to justify prolonged intervention in our personal lives because they're beginning to lose ground on deaths, hospitalisations etc. now the vaccine programme has delivered.

I'm not denying it exists or that it gets some people really badly; just like the virus, I completely get it; it takes some people down big time and some people have really struggled in their recovery.

However, as someone who is 25 and has had covid a couple of months ago - like anyone I know in my demographic group, I have not experienced any long-term symptoms since I recovered from the virus (and by recovered I mean I waited 10 days for my blocked nose to go away whilst getting very bored). I caught covid whilst I was travelling round the UK for a few days; I might not have asked to get the virus, but I have always been very much aware that I could catch it, and that it did have the potential to make me ill, and that I could've experienced symptoms long term. I didn't (thankfully) and I would make the same decision to go out there and live my life, and accept a risk of the virus (I should make clear that I did isolate entirely once I tested positive, and took all the steps to ensuring I didn't give the virus to someone else). I spent months in lockdown last year, and the same this year whilst my parents and grandparents waited for their vaccines; I don't want government intervention to stop me getting the virus. There's online shopping, I could've continued working from home, FFP3 masks etc. if I wanted to avoid any exposure.

Furthermore, "long covid" isn't one thing, it's an assortment of several different health conditions that the body can experience due to the virus. Post-viral fatigue is nothing new. Understand there are people still very fearful but as a general rule, emotions like fear aren't good for mental or physical health. The vaccines are excellent and if you have had both shots, or had the virus, you have the best immune/antibody response you are likely ever going to have.

The only person I know who had it was amazed how when things opened up, and she could go back out and do things and the forms of exercise she enjoys, at just how rapid her recovery was. I'd put strong probabilities on a large proportion the supposed symptoms actually being deconditioning from sitting at home all day.

 

[yorkie]

It's worth pointing out that not everyone who wears masks is a "good person" (as in they believe it's in their best intentions to wear one). There have been reports that shoplifters have benefitted from mask mandates, and it would not be surprising if other forms of petty crime have as well.

Absolutely; I've been a victim of it. We've had people at my workplace be able to brazenly steal things because staff didn't realise who they were.

No one is asking you or anyone else to make up any rules. You just decide whether or not you wish to wear a mask and do so accordingly. End of matter.

Exactly

As a teacher, in my experience, I would say the damage to the education of the children really is minimal. I wouldn't always believe what the media is portraying regarding education.

And as someone who works in education, I'd say it's far from minimal.

I note that lockdown has been mentioned as having a negative impact for several of the students who are joining us in September too.

 

[Yew]

You mean besides those children/staff who can’t have a vaccine/who haven’t developed the antibodies in response to the vaccine/those who are extremely vulnerable?

We don't shut down society for any other respiratory illnesses, which for people who are so vulnerable that they cannot be vaccinated, are potentially even more of a concern than C19.

 

[Ianno87]

And as someone who works in education, I'd say it's far from minimal.

I note that lockdown has been mentioned as having a negative impact for several of the students who are joining us in September too.

Well it's obviously going to vary. Some pupils and schools will have fared better than others.

Like I say, my 4 year old has fared not bad considering. Clearly not as well as if he'd been in school throughout, but his teachers have done an amazing job in spite of this - I'm blown away by how far he's come on since September.

 

[duncanp]

Of course there was a time where face coverings (usually helmets) were banned from high street banks, and Bluewater shopping centre banned hoodies on the grounds that they can aid crime/intimidation. Now mask mandates have thrown those up in the air.

Yes, there are some contradictions in the law regarding covering the face.

Take these two paragraphs from the FCO travel advice page for France.

Wearing masks on public transport is compulsory for all users aged 11 and over, with fines for those who are not compliant. Masks are also compulsory in taxis and private hire vehicles without a plexiglass screen.

Concealing the face in public places in France is illegal. This includes balaclavas, full veils or any other garment or mask that is used to conceal the face. Failure to comply with the ban is punishable by a maximum fine of €150. Under this law, forcing someone to hide their face is also a crime and is punishable by a year’s imprisonment and a fine of up to €30,000. If the person forced to hide their face is a minor, the sentence is doubled. The law does not provide any exemption for tourists.

I don't think the gendarmes would accept the excuse "...Well you see that nice Mr Raab told me that covering the face in a public place in France is illegal, so that's why I'm not wearing a mask on the metro..."

 

[Ianno87]

Yes, there are some contradictions in the law regarding covering the face.

Take these two paragraphs from the FCO travel advice page for France.





I don't think the gendarmes would accept the excuse "...Well you see that nice Mr Raab told me that covering the face in a public place in France is illegal, so that's why I'm not wearing a mask on the metro..."

Clearly they've added one and simply forgotten to take the other off.

 

[Cdd89]

That was kind of my point. If there's no risk in wearing a mask in an empty train carriage, or any other indoor setting with few people, the government should come out and say so. It would be quite easy to provide guidance that empty indoor settings are OK and crowded ones aren't, for example. At present we're all being expected to make up our own rules and potentially to disagree with the rules that others make up.

So if I might venture, you actually agree with the new approach? Since while they won’t be mandated in law, I’m confident that the guidance will strongly advise masks in crowed indoor settings (incl public transport).

 

[edwin_m]

So if I might venture, you actually agree with the new approach? Since while they won’t be mandated in law, I’m confident that the guidance will strongly advise masks in crowed indoor settings (incl public transport).

As far as I'm aware there isn't any guidance at all.

 

[AlterEgo]

You mean besides those children/staff who can’t have a vaccine/who haven’t developed the antibodies in response to the vaccine/those who are extremely vulnerable?

When will it be safe for them, do you think? I mean, if it’s not safe now, it never will be. Covid is here to stay and the world got riskier overnight for those of us who have underlying health conditions.

 

[notlob.divad]

I can't stand this sort of paternalistic logic. "Don't let the public see the models we're using to make decisions about their lives, they might misunderstand..."

Quite, people must be free to choose, but we cannot possibly give them the information to make those informed choices, because they might make the wrong choice.

 

[HSTEd]

Well I teach in lab at University level, and I can say that we might as well not have bothered trying to teach lab via Zoom.
In any case, the Graun are laying it on rather thick

England’s ‘freedom day’ to be day of fear for elderly people, charities warn​

 

[Domh245]

As far as I'm aware there isn't any guidance at all.

I'd be very surprised if this page wasn't updated on/for the 19th - all the references to "must" will obviously disappear (ditto enforcement, exemptions and other references scattered throughout) but I expect that there'll remain bits in there around situations where they're recommended, in addition to the 'how they work' stuff and how to make/maintain/dispose of them. I may have to eat a hat (or mask!) on the 19th though - we will see

I'd also be very surprised if we didn't see advertising campaigns as we head into flu season along the lines of "not feeling 100% - wear a mask"/"on a busy train - wear a mask"

 

[VauxhallandI]

I think all this virtuous “I’m going to continue to wear my mask, it’s courtesy” BS will melt like chocolate in our forthcoming heatwave.

These types will drop them as soon as they see it’s acceptable in their little Facebook groups etc.

One or two will come up with a reasonable sounding occasion not wear one then it will spread like wildfire.

There will be some loons that will continue but there always have been.

The majority of people are doing it because they want to be seen as “goodies” but as soon as the currency of it lowers they will quit.

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

I think all this virtuous “I’m going to continue to wear my mask, it’s courtesy” BS will melt like chocolate in our forthcoming heatwave.

These types will drop them as soon as they see it’s acceptable in their little Facebook groups etc.

One or two will come up with a reasonable sounding occasion not wear one then it will spread like wildfire.

There will be some loons that will continue but there always have been.

The majority of people are doing it because they want to be seen as “goodies” but as soon as the currency of it lowers they will quit.

I think this post says more about you than anyone else.

 

[Failed Unit]

I think all this virtuous “I’m going to continue to wear my mask, it’s courtesy” BS will melt like chocolate in our forthcoming heatwave.

These types will drop them as soon as they see it’s acceptable in their little Facebook groups etc.

One or two will come up with a reasonable sounding occasion not wear one then it will spread like wildfire.

There will be some loons that will continue but there always have been.

The majority of people are doing it because they want to be seen as “goodies” but as soon as the currency of it lowers they will quit.

Sainsbury’s have said they are ok to let customers decide. Bet it makes no difference to people using that shop for both reasons.

 

[102 fan]

I don't doubt the vaccine is helping in suppressing covid, but to be fair that wasn't the point I was trying to make. I was commenting on the general fall in other colds/viruses amongst the population. Many of my work colleagues have made similar observations. When was the last time any of you had a cold (or if you have had one, have you noticed you've had less than most years?)

As to covid rates, the vaccine is clearly helping.

You seem to have missed my point. How have other viruses fallen while covid didn't?

 

[VauxhallandI]

I think this post says more about you than anyone else.

Oh does it now. Why don’t I just reply that your reply says more about you?

Thanks for your contribution

 

[43066]

You mean besides those children/staff who can’t have a vaccine/who haven’t developed the antibodies in response to the vaccine/those who are extremely vulnerable?

How many school staff are so ill that they cannot be vaccinated? Wouldn’t be easier to exclude those who are “extremely vulnerable” rather than having hundreds of thousands of children sitting at home (it’s actually over 600,000 today not 400,000 as I said earlier).

As for people who “don’t develop antibodies in response to the vaccine”. That sounds rather like you’re questioning the efficacy of the vaccine…