Media Coverage of COVID -19

[yorksrob]

There is supposed to be a "review" next week to determine whether the rules can be eased from 5th July, rather than 19th July.

I wonder if Boris Johnson will take the opportunity to have a minor relaxation of the rules from July 5th, pending their abolition on July 19th, just to take everyone's mind off Matt Hancock and "Hands, Face, Embrace".

From a political point of view, he might do (and as a political animal myself, I wouldn't be against him doing it !

 

[kez19]

I'd like to know where you feel there has been decent reporting. I'm also concerned about the quality of the press, and regard the reporting from Private Eye as generally pretty good - especially their "In the Back" reporting. There's plenty to criticise in the media, but I'm surprised that you pick out either Douma or the Skripals as examples of poor reporting.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 Jun 2021 ==


Years ago, a prominent newsreader was lambasted for arguing that there should be more positive news. Some of what he argued was wrong, but he captured something important - "news" tends to be about what is different, and that is more often than not bad. It's been a fact for the 30+ years I've been consuming the news, and I doubt it'll ever change.

It's your right to remain a skeptic, but I'd strongly suggest that you combine your scepticism with actually reading and considering what other sources are saying. As, taking your last paragraph at face value, you come across as not wanting to believe what the science is saying, and instead waiting for someone to say what you want to hear. There's a lot out there about the science, and the key thing I take from what I see is that the scientific understandings are developing and changing rapidly. The media react to what happens - they don't make it.

I’m sorry there, but I don’t put my head in the sand and wait, I trust my gut than what people and media say, maybe have a word with yourself first? I am all ears and no I don't choose what I want to hear - I trust my intuition and my intuition has been like this since the get go and its seems to be more of it coming to light proves that very point into why I remain skeptical - that is the whole point why you should question things than take everything as face value from... oh look the media our politicians and the likes of SAGE, so I am indeed sorry to say when these things do come to light and will say again, I do hope you realise that what most people are trying to tell you, you will see it but if you don't you'll miss it and I am as open minded as I can be.

Trust other sources like whom and list them? I could watch RT but people will claim that is Kremlin led and interfering with UK as a whole or what about Sputnik? I’m sorry but media are dead to me I no longer trust either

When did I ever say about the science? If this was all science it wouldn’t have been so politically charged and media driven as it has been, take these elements out of it then we get some form of proper discussion on both sides and not the one sided approach so for now I’m skeptical and let alone nothing wrong with that either, it’s called questioning things with an open mind as I stated to you a while back. May I suggest you think for yourself and take peoples opinion on board and then have another think then see where the reality is in this matrix?

As for the science and evolving, yes is it no wonder that doing a rule of 6 and being in a bubble and following the rules for us plebs meanwhile people higher up can order 6000 people into a jammed pack stadium? Yes indeed where is the true science in all that? (please don't mention whether or not they have been vaccinated or not thats irrelevant here in my opinion) but still why is it ok for us plebs not to do what we consider "normal" but its ok for sports events to hold more than what you can do as a small group? That is not science this is just making it up as they go along (waken up)!

As for the media, the media make the news don’t you think? Obsessed over the little things and it’s breaking news ie Megan Markle broke a fingernail or Harry swam over a river, the media need a shakeup and there will be one coming in the near future



== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 Jun 2021 ==

As an aside I'd highly recommend watching the original version! The shadowy corporations are less concerned about ratings and more about trying to ram home the supposed futility of individual effort in society. If I had more coffee I could work that back into something more relevant for a Covid discussion thread..



For a millisecond today I was gobsmacked that Hancock's apology was for 'breaking social distancing guidelines'. Then I remembered this is the norm for politics in this day and age.

For me , what got me was it was chasing ratings but use this as in news media it seems similar to me


Surprised Matt Hancock just didn't say "I did not have any sexual relations with that woman" it be a sudden flashback to 1997

 

[NorthKent1989]

From a political point of view, he might do (and as a political animal myself, I wouldn't be against him doing it !

At this point any delay to normality would be a farce, any conditions to having our freedoms back would be farce, a July 5th reopening is definitely Boris’s way to appease a frustrated public, let’s hope we never again have to contend with tin pot authoritarians.

As for Hancock, Boris will for the moment stand by him, he has no choice he can’t be seen to condemn something he himself has done several times himself, but I feel
That this is one act of hypocrisy too many commuted by the political classes, and it won’t be forgotten anytime soon.

 

[35B]

I don't agree with everything they say or do either. Murray and Hitchens, while both very different people, both have an interesting and eclectic set of views, some of which I agree with and some of which I don't. I'm less familiar with the personal views of Fisk, but I've found him to be a very good reporter on the whole.

Though it appears that you're shooting the messenger here, rather than engaging with the message. To be blunt, I think all three of these people have done significantly better and more interesting reporting of late than those in the 'mainstream' media. At least they ask questions and scrutinise details.

It is a detour, but because the journalists (debateable for Murray, but let's let that go) you cite are or were ultimately campaigners, not seekers after truth. Fisk is harder to pigeon-hole; he was a good reporter but also became an adjective - "fisking" (the selection of evidence solely to bolster preconceptions and prejudices) was named after him; his reporting on aspects of the Arab-Israeli conflict was as biased and lacking in evidence as the pre-Gulf War II claims of WMD in Iraq.

 

[kristiang85]

From a political point of view, he might do (and as a political animal myself, I wouldn't be against him doing it !

I can see Johnson doing something for political gain, especially amidst the Hancock scandal, by saying e.g. people can dance at weddings, or relax some pub rules (the latter especially if England win on Tuesday).

 

[35B]

I’m sorry there, but I don’t put my head in the sand and wait, I trust my gut than what people and media say, maybe have a word with yourself first? I am all ears and no I don't choose what I want to hear - I trust my intuition and my intuition has been like this since the get go and its seems to be more of it coming to light proves that very point into why I remain skeptical - that is the whole point why you should question things than take everything as face value from... oh look the media our politicians and the likes of SAGE, so I am indeed sorry to say when these things do come to light and will say again, I do hope you realise that what most people are trying to tell you, you will see it but if you don't you'll miss it and I am as open minded as I can be.

Trust other sources like whom and list them? I could watch RT but people will claim that is Kremlin led and interfering with UK as a whole or what about Sputnik? I’m sorry but media are dead to me I no longer trust either

When did I ever say about the science? If this was all science it wouldn’t have been so politically charged and media driven as it has been, take these elements out of it then we get some form of proper discussion on both sides and not the one sided approach so for now I’m skeptical and let alone nothing wrong with that either, it’s called questioning things with an open mind as I stated to you a while back. May I suggest you think for yourself and take peoples opinion on board and then have another think then see where the reality is in this matrix?

As for the science and evolving, yes is it no wonder that doing a rule of 6 and being in a bubble and following the rules for us plebs meanwhile people higher up can order 6000 people into a jammed pack stadium? Yes indeed where is the true science in all that? (please don't mention whether or not they have been vaccinated or not thats irrelevant here in my opinion) but still why is it ok for us plebs not to do what we consider "normal" but its ok for sports events to hold more than what you can do as a small group? That is not science this is just making it up as they go along (waken up)!

As for the media, the media make the news don’t you think? Obsessed over the little things and it’s breaking news ie Megan Markle broke a fingernail or Harry swam over a river, the media need a shakeup and there will be one coming in the near future



== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 Jun 2021 ==



For me , what got me was it was chasing ratings but use this as in news media it seems similar to me


Surprised Matt Hancock just didn't say "I did not have any sexual relations with that woman" it be a sudden flashback to 1997

We both have our biases. But let's go back to the question of science, and how charged things are. If I reflect on the past 15 months, the science and it's interpretation has been hugely charged. Questions like whether Covid is a serious disease, what the appropriate measures are to contain Covid, how much Covid should be contained, whether masks/social distancing/lockdowns/whatever are effective at containing it, whether a vaccine would be found, what degree of public vaccination is required, and so on. They're all scientific questions, but also much more than just scientific questions - one thing that I agree profoundly with others I often disagree with on here about is that the "right" answers to those questions are about much more than the medical sciences.

I'm not surprised that the media reflects that, because society reflects it. Much of the media follows the latest thing, because they treat what people are interested in - be it Matt Handjob's affair, or Meghan's fingernail, or a twice divorced man who's known to have procured an abortion being married in Westminster Cathedral - as the same as what's in the public interest, when they are different. It was the same 165 years ago when Anthony Trollope wrote "The Warden"; I've no doubt it'll be the same in another 165 years. But media is also about more than that. I mentioned Tortoise Media earlier; I spent a very interesting hour today attending one of their "Sensemaker" discussion panels. That was "the media" looking at a subject, and inviting people with a real interest in it to listen and learn from each other.

You mention stadia with 6,000 (or did you mean the 60,000 poor souls that will be allowed into Wembley?) recently, and compare it to the rule of 6 or bubbles. But where did I get the information that the stadia are being used for experiments to test the risk of transmission? The media. Where have I seen discussion about whether it's right to let 2,500 VIPs in for the Euros? Again, the media. That is about science, and serious people trying to understand the impact of particular courses of action on a disease that has killed something like 150,000 people in 18 months - that's the population of York.

 

[kez19]

We both have our biases. But let's go back to the question of science, and how charged things are. If I reflect on the past 15 months, the science and it's interpretation has been hugely charged. Questions like whether Covid is a serious disease, what the appropriate measures are to contain Covid, how much Covid should be contained, whether masks/social distancing/lockdowns/whatever are effective at containing it, whether a vaccine would be found, what degree of public vaccination is required, and so on. They're all scientific questions, but also much more than just scientific questions - one thing that I agree profoundly with others I often disagree with on here about is that the "right" answers to those questions are about much more than the medical sciences.

I'm not surprised that the media reflects that, because society reflects it. Much of the media follows the latest thing, because they treat what people are interested in - be it Matt Handjob's affair, or Meghan's fingernail, or a twice divorced man who's known to have procured an abortion being married in Westminster Cathedral - as the same as what's in the public interest, when they are different. It was the same 165 years ago when Anthony Trollope wrote "The Warden"; I've no doubt it'll be the same in another 165 years. But media is also about more than that. I mentioned Tortoise Media earlier; I spent a very interesting hour today attending one of their "Sensemaker" discussion panels. That was "the media" looking at a subject, and inviting people with a real interest in it to listen and learn from each other.

You mention stadia with 6,000 (or did you mean the 60,000 poor souls that will be allowed into Wembley?) recently, and compare it to the rule of 6 or bubbles. But where did I get the information that the stadia are being used for experiments to test the risk of transmission? The media. Where have I seen discussion about whether it's right to let 2,500 VIPs in for the Euros? Again, the media. That is about science, and serious people trying to understand the impact of particular courses of action on a disease that has killed something like 150,000 people in 18 months - that's the population of York.

So in other words lets take the likes of Ferguson or Devi who in the beginning were for lockdowns and with their predictions to then change minds that lockdowns don't work and basically hurt people? So is this how science works? Who knew? I thought that people who do science know how variants work and how they spread and or how they prevent it? As far as I seen and learnt in last 15 months its became more of "what we thought we knew" to basically "clueless" - so are they really into science or does money talk?

Yet media in their own way then have bias regardless on what fence they are on? Whilst I mentioned the Megan Markle just for the sake of it, proves a further point and has been thoughout this is basic gaslighting but of course we could never say that about our media as thats not true I guess? Media are like hawks they couldn't care less who gets hurt unless its more revenue to them but still 15 months on into this and the media still play "hunger games".

Whats with the "60,000 poor souls" be allowed into Wembley? Isn't that a bit crass? I have nothing against though going to Wembley I am more for it if I am honest, I just find it laughable by the day as in plebs can't do one but are able to do another - indeed money must be talking here as last year none of this sort happened did it?


This isn't really about science if money talks, seems to money is talking and it seems to be that normality could have happened sooner but lockdown and all that.

If this was about science then you would as I mentioned a more opened debate about it and its impacts but because if some people use different sources other than the BBC its an open question - I am sorry but 18 months on what I have learnt is nothing about science, media aren't held to account let alone politicians and SAGE its a free for all but yet joe public does something wrong gets punished? We are heading towards a 2 tier society (if it can be stopped and people waken up), where vax/unvax will get or not go judged on the elite but if you still believe that everything we been told is for the greater good, then why aren't our politicans etc not doing any better for themselves? Oh wait nevermind its all about money in the trough!

 

[Cowley]

Re the Matt Hancock shenanigans. There is actually a dedicated thread on the subject here.

Matt Hancock resigns and following matters

Following on from his failings, the WhatsApp messages and alleged affair, do you think Hancock should resign or get sacked?

www.railforums.co.uk

It’d be better to keep discussions on him in that one if that’s ok please. It’s a bit of a sidebar from what the thread is actually about.
Thanks everyone.

 

[liam456]

So in other words lets take the likes of Ferguson or Devi who in the beginning were for lockdowns and with their predictions to then change minds that lockdowns don't work and basically hurt people? So is this how science works? Who knew? I thought that people who do science know how variants work and how they spread and or how they prevent it? As far as I seen and learnt in last 15 months its became more of "what we thought we knew" to basically "clueless" - so are they really into science or does money talk?

You do realise scientific consensus can change on something, right? And given a changing situation or new evidence, people are allowed to change their minds?

I would like an apology though from the likes of Christina Pagel, et. al. after their Twitter threads and media appearances coming up to May 17th, wanting reopening postponed. Those who made wrong predictions leading to people suffering and dying quite rightly are being hauled over the coals, but maybe a few words from those wanting to ruin livelihoods and income streams for the sake of their incorrect predictions would be nice too.

 

[DustyBin]

Perhaps because the announcement was already delayed by a week, and something had to be done in the run up to what was massively overhyped as "freedom day"? As it happened, I read the announcement last week as precisely what you suggest - a deferral of the decision for 4 weeks, possibly less, depending upon the data. I do grasp that the restrictions are extremely serious, not least from what I read of the obvious pain that the current situation is causing a number on here, and will be delighted to be able to live normally. But I also grasp the way that this country has simultaneously tried to "protect the economy" and had some of the worst figures worldwide, and draw the conclusion that hoping things will be ok is not a good strategy, and has made things worse - in blood and treasure - than it need have been.

Very simply, I want the restrictions over, and permanently so. I work with colleagues in India; I'd like to be able to go for a drink with them again - here or there. I'd like to see an old friend living in Oz for the first time in years. I'd like my son (year 11) to do his A-Level course in confidence that he'll actually study the whole syllabus, unlike his GCSEs. To do that means case numbers, hospitalisations, and deaths being at low enough levels for the public as a whole to tolerate and not perceive Covid as being an excessive risk to them.

I observe the pattern of data being reported, and agree that it is showing trends that are better than appeared to be the case even a week ago. I also observe that no intelligent commentators are suggesting that we are well below the level of vaccination required to achieve herd immunity, we don't know what effect time will have on individuals' immunity, and the ability of the NHS to "cope" with the two surges in cases has been at enormous cost in terms of both delayed/missed treatments and exhaustion of the highly trained and experienced staff we most rely on to deliver those treatments.

Like you and others, I am frustrated that the "official" modellers have a tendency to make excessively pessimistic assumptions - while also noticing that sensible observers (I find the analyses by James Ward consistently interesting) are also very conscious of the very fine lines between success and failure. Unlike you, though, I believe that these differences and the policies that follow them are based on people acting in good faith, trying to respond to extremely demanding circumstances under massive pressure - not a determination to prolong restrictions.

So, what of my reaction if there are stories about something disrupting progress towards the release of restrictions in July? Given the data that's steadily emerging, I do believe the burden of proof is shifting from "can we justify relaxation" to "can we justify extension". I fully expect there to be a variety of voices, and that those voices will - as ever - consist of a varied mix of self interest, ideologically motivated positioning, and good sense, frequently mixed in the same individual. I also fully expect that there will be voices on here throwing their teddies and threatening all sorts of consequences at any suggestion that we don't get freedom NOW.

But I don't, never have, and never will accept the grotesque views of some that the restrictions are a deliberate strategy to limit our freedoms in the long term, or are not justified in terms of trying to deal with the pandemic as it has actually affected this country, or even that Covid is a real medical problem. There have been mistakes; in March 2020, in the autumn, travel from India are high on that list. But those are questions of competence, not malice.

Apologies for the delayed response, but I would like to credit your lengthy post with a reply.

I agree that our strategy has been disastrous, but there are standout failures (care homes being a prime example) that have heavily contributed to this, certainly in terms of number of deaths. I don’t believe we’ve sacrificed lives to protect the economy, certainly not to any great degree. It’s also worth noting that we count covid deaths in a frankly ludicrous way which guarantees high numbers.

For the public to not perceive the risk from covid as excessive, we need to change the narrative. The government and media have scared people senseless. A lot of people appear to have absolutely no idea of the actual risk to themselves. Over 50? Covid is a death sentence. Under 50? You’ll get “long covid”. Kids? We can’t put them at risk. This is what a lot of people believe, when in fact the science and the data you yourself refer to tells a very different story. The public have not been presented with the full facts, and the majority won’t look for them. I believe this is largely because the government don’t want them to make their own informed decisions, and therefore there is certainly an element of control to all of this, it’s really rather obvious to me at least.

I think we’ll have to agree to disagree on whether certain people are acting in good faith or not. They’re either not, or they’re so incompetent they shouldn’t be in their roles in my opinion. There is very likely a lot of backside covering going on as well but some “experts” are going out of their way to maintain the fear I mentioned above, which by your own admission is something we need to address before lifting restrictions. We’re therefore trapped in a viscous circle are we not?

I not sure why you find the views of those questioning the motives of those calling for, or imposing these restrictions, “grotesque”? I don’t see many posts on here supporting wacky conspiracy theories. I do however see a lot of posts questioning why restrictions are being maintained longer than necessary and whether the government will allow a full return to normal, or some kind of “new normal” to quote the PM himself. There is a danger here that permanent changes are made to the way we live under false pretences and with no democratic mandate, I’m amazed you don’t appear to acknowledge this. Until all restrictions are permanently and irreversibly removed the possibility remains, and it’s only right that questions are asked.

 

[NorthKent1989]

Right now there is another protest going on, and also tomorrow, I’m sure the media will report it as “tens of anti vax covidiots cause disruption” if the choose to report it at all.

But on a serious note the media cannot keep ignoring these protests but sadly I know they will

 

[greyman42]

That is about science, and serious people trying to understand the impact of particular courses of action on a disease that has killed something like 150,000 people in 18 months - that's the population of York.

Where do you get that figure from?

 

[35B]

Where do you get that figure from?

https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/deaths. Specifically as at the time of this post, it is citing 152,490 deaths in the UK where Covid is listed on the death certificate, and 128,066 according to the 28 day measure.

Right now there is another protest going on, and also tomorrow, I’m sure the media will report it as “tens of anti vax covidiots cause disruption” if the choose to report it at all.

But on a serious note the media cannot keep ignoring these protests but sadly I know they will

Funny, I just glanced at the BBC News website and saw this - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-57623110.

 

[Bantamzen]

https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/deaths. Specifically as at the time of this post, it is citing 152,490 deaths in the UK where Covid is listed on the death certificate, and 128,066 according to the 28 day measure.

Funny, I just glanced at the BBC News website and saw this - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-57623110.

150,000 people have died with covid, not necessarily because of it. As I'm sure you are aware, covid is a notifiable disease & as such has to be included on death certificates & counted on the stats if a positive test is recorded within 28 days of death, regardless of the primary cause of death.

But nice try regardless....

 

[35B]

Apologies for the delayed response, but I would like to credit your lengthy post with a reply.

I agree that our strategy has been disastrous, but there are standout failures (care homes being a prime example) that have heavily contributed to this, certainly in terms of number of deaths. I don’t believe we’ve sacrificed lives to protect the economy, certainly not to any great degree. It’s also worth noting that we count covid deaths in a frankly ludicrous way which guarantees high numbers.

For the public to not perceive the risk from covid as excessive, we need to change the narrative. The government and media have scared people senseless. A lot of people appear to have absolutely no idea of the actual risk to themselves. Over 50? Covid is a death sentence. Under 50? You’ll get “long covid”. Kids? We can’t put them at risk. This is what a lot of people believe, when in fact the science and the data you yourself refer to tells a very different story. The public have not been presented with the full facts, and the majority won’t look for them. I believe this is largely because the government don’t want them to make their own informed decisions, and therefore there is certainly an element of control to all of this, it’s really rather obvious to me at least.

I think we’ll have to agree to disagree on whether certain people are acting in good faith or not. They’re either not, or they’re so incompetent they shouldn’t be in their roles in my opinion. There is very likely a lot of backside covering going on as well but some “experts” are going out of their way to maintain the fear I mentioned above, which by your own admission is something we need to address before lifting restrictions. We’re therefore trapped in a viscous circle are we not?

I not sure why you find the views of those questioning the motives of those calling for, or imposing these restrictions, “grotesque”? I don’t see many posts on here supporting wacky conspiracy theories. I do however see a lot of posts questioning why restrictions are being maintained longer than necessary and whether the government will allow a full return to normal, or some kind of “new normal” to quote the PM himself. There is a danger here that permanent changes are made to the way we live under false pretences and with no democratic mandate, I’m amazed you don’t appear to acknowledge this. Until all restrictions are permanently and irreversibly removed the possibility remains, and it’s only right that questions are asked.

Thank you for your reply, and I agree that there have been major mistakes in policy. I will pick up on two of your points.

The first is my use of the word "grotesque". I used it to refer to those who argue that the use of restrictions is a deliberate strategy to restrict our freedoms, as an end in itself. If I were a would be dictator, there are many measures I'd have taken to limit freedom that the government, despite the genuinely authoritarian Home Secretary, has not tried to take. I genuinely view the discussions of restrictions in the UK as being associated with how to manage Covid, not as a policy aim in itself.

The second is the question of good faith. I stand by that comment, while also recognising that there will be people covering their backsides (something that's also been true of the dogmatists opposed to restrictions, by the way). I see some - Christina Pagel's been mentioned on this thread page - who are hyperbolic about risk, and see restrictions as the answer in the same way that someone with a hammer will see a hammer as the answer when presented with a screw. But I still give them the benefit of the doubt for good faith - however wrong they are, they are arguing based on what they believe the right answer to be.

We do need to understand the risk much better - just as earlier in the pandemic we needed to understand statistics better to understand the risk of exponential spread, so we now need to understand the dangers of relative statistics. I've seen Israel reported as having equal numbers of fully vaccinated and non-vaccinated Covid patients; what those reports don't make clear is that this is a demonstration of the power of vaccination. If there is a population of 1000, 10 cases, and 90% vaccination, then that means that the case rate is 5% (5 from 100) for the non-vaccinated, and 0.6% for the vaccinated (5 from 900).

 

[NorthKent1989]

https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/deaths. Specifically as at the time of this post, it is citing 152,490 deaths in the UK where Covid is listed on the death certificate, and 128,066 according to the 28 day measure.

Funny, I just glanced at the BBC News website and saw this - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-57623110.

I see what you did there sharing the article of 12 being arrested at the March for mine and your freedoms as a way to smear the march, nice try.

Typical of the BBC and other mainstream media outlets really to put a spin on it to suit their narrative of keeping everyone terrified of this virus with a 99% survival rate and focus on the negatives of what is a peaceful protest.

 

[35B]

150,000 people have died with covid, not necessarily because of it. As I'm sure you are aware, covid is a notifiable disease & as such has to be included on death certificates & counted on the stats if a positive test is recorded within 28 days of death, regardless of the primary cause of death.

But nice try regardless....

And, as you will also be aware, the notifiable disease only has to be recorded on the death certificate where it has contributed as a cause of that person's death - indeed, to do otherwise would be to falsify the record.

I use the death certificate figure because, though imperfect, it provides a good view of the impact of Covid on those deaths and avoids the arbitrariness that you and otehrs have complained of that goes with the 28 day measure. It's also widely reported that the death certificate measure does work.

However, I've just looked for the excess death measure, and (for 27th March 2020 - 11th June 2021), that shows excess deaths (so discounting for the deaths of particularly the elderly that would have happened anyway, if not at the time they did) of 92,155, or 1.15 times the expected deaths for that period.

Personally, at that scale, I'm not particularly concerned whether we're talking about the population of York, or "just" Chester - these are very large numbers, and deserve greater respect.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 26 Jun 2021 ==

I see what you did there sharing the article of 12 being arrested at the March for mine and your freedoms as a way to smear the march, nice try.

Typical of the BBC and other mainstream media outlets really to put a spin on it to suit their narrative of keeping everyone terrified of this virus with a 99% survival rate and focus on the negatives of what is a peaceful protest.

Actually, if you read the article, they were XR protestors arrested before they could cause trouble at this weekend's marches. And if you care to read the article, it is a straight report that a march is ongoing, with reasonable pictures of the march underway.

As for whether the protest is peaceful, let's agree to hope that it stays that way.

 

[Bantamzen]

And, as you will also be aware, the notifiable disease only has to be recorded on the death certificate where it has contributed as a cause of that person's death - indeed, to do otherwise would be to falsify the record.

I use the death certificate figure because, though imperfect, it provides a good view of the impact of Covid on those deaths and avoids the arbitrariness that you and otehrs have complained of that goes with the 28 day measure. It's also widely reported that the death certificate measure does work.

However, I've just looked for the excess death measure, and (for 27th March 2020 - 11th June 2021), that shows excess deaths (so discounting for the deaths of particularly the elderly that would have happened anyway, if not at the time they did) of 92,155, or 1.15 times the expected deaths for that period.

Personally, at that scale, I'm not particularly concerned whether we're talking about the population of York, or "just" Chester - these are very large numbers, and deserve greater respect.

And as you will doubtless be aware medical professionals and families of some who have passed have complained that covid has been recorded as a cause of death, even though it clearly wasn't. So you are right in one respect, using death certificate figures is indeed imperfect. However it suits your particular narrative, so keep on wriggling....

 

[kez19]

You do realise scientific consensus can change on something, right? And given a changing situation or new evidence, people are allowed to change their minds?

I would like an apology though from the likes of Christina Pagel, et. al. after their Twitter threads and media appearances coming up to May 17th, wanting reopening postponed. Those who made wrong predictions leading to people suffering and dying quite rightly are being hauled over the coals, but maybe a few words from those wanting to ruin livelihoods and income streams for the sake of their incorrect predictions would be nice too.

Yet under the same breath then, you argue the toss when the general public change their minds on things to be labelled everything under the sun? You can't have it both ways.

Good example to run with is we predict this... media hook line sinker ... its predicted, then it fails but then run it again (media rinse/repeat), the media don't learn, let alone they don't learn when to drop the people they ask to appear to bring evidence other than modelling, maybe we be better bring back Mystic Meg maybe she do a better job than what we got.

What you said in the last paragraph is bang on however but will we ever see anything or the like ever do apologies or say they were wrong? Of course not damage has been done but they couldn't care but find scapegoats to run with.

 

[35B]

And as you will doubtless be aware medical professionals and families of some who have passed have complained that covid has been recorded as a cause of death, even though it clearly wasn't. So you are right in one respect, using death certificate figures is indeed imperfect. However it suits your particular narrative, so keep on wriggling....

I'm so glad that you consider those cases - which I agree did happen - so widespread as to mean the city wide scale of deaths irrelevant.

 

[Bantamzen]

I'm so glad that you consider those cases - which I agree did happen - so widespread as to mean the city wide scale of deaths irrelevant.

Did I say that? No I didn't. But again keep trying.

 

[NorthKent1989]

Hancock has resigned and while I, along with millions of others are glad, I fear who his replacement will be, someone who will want another lockdown in winter, let’s hope not though, as we don’t need another lockdown, enough is enough.

Plenty of marchers today I saw on social media, I was pleasantly surprised at the BBC article but they still use inflammatory language like “anti vax/anti lockdown” rather than “pro choice/anti authoritarian” then again the BBC are the government mouthpiece

 

[davews]

Just back from the March. We only walked the bit along Oxford Street from Hyde Park. Great atmosphere and thoroughly enjoyed it. I see there is a fair amount of coverage in the Telegraph and the tennis balls thrown at Parliament. No idea of numbers and were were towards the tail of it but clearly many thousands. Coming home and finding Hancock gone made an excellent end to the day.

 

[NorthKent1989]

Just back from the March. We only walked the bit along Oxford Street from Hyde Park. Great atmosphere and thoroughly enjoyed it. I see there is a fair amount of coverage in the Telegraph and the tennis balls thrown at Parliament. No idea of numbers and were were towards the tail of it but clearly many thousands. Coming home and finding Hancock gone made an excellent end to the day.

Excellent!

Well done for going, there’s another one tomorrow, anti lockdown sentiment is setting in, even with the new Health security, it’ll be hard to justify another lockdown now, although we all know there are some who actually hope for it!

 

[applepie2100]

It's now been announced that Sajid Javid has been appointed Health Secretary and according to Sky News at least it seems he's a little less known for his lockdown tendencies. Whether that's true or not only time will tell.

 

[MikeWM]

Just back from the March. We only walked the bit along Oxford Street from Hyde Park. Great atmosphere and thoroughly enjoyed it. I see there is a fair amount of coverage in the Telegraph and the tennis balls thrown at Parliament. No idea of numbers and were were towards the tail of it but clearly many thousands. Coming home and finding Hancock gone made an excellent end to the day.

I joined at Oxford Circus and followed it down Regent Street and back up Whitehall.

I thought it was really great - a total cross-section of society, serious but also having fun. Very morale-lifting.

I’ve never been on a demo before, and so had some trepidation about joining this one, but after watching it pass Oxford Circus for 10 minutes or so, I felt I had to give it a go. I’m really glad I did, and I’ll definitely be going to the next one (as, unfortunately, we’ll no doubt need to have some more).

 

[VauxhallandI]

I did Hyde Park to Trafalger Sq via Oxford Circus and Regents St.

A good mix of folk only had to have a word with someone who let and air horn off virtually in my ear.

They seemed to be coming at Trafalger from three roads but as the fan zone is there I thought it would get a bit gridlocked.

I heated up the Strand then Aldwych and up Kingsway to Holborn tube.

Always best to get off before the strava starts and the indiscriminate truncheons appear.

 

[NorthKent1989]

The march from what I could tell from social media pictures and videos seemed to be the biggest yet.

Let’s hope the media now senses the mood of the people which is no more lockdowns or restrictions.

 

[Bantamzen]

I'm not sure why, but lots of local newspaper sites are reporting "The 21 Symptoms of Covid". This appears to be taken from a page published back in March on this Zoe site on what are and are not common symptoms of covid. An example from my local rag, but the stories are the usual cut & paste jobs elsewhere:

Covid-19 expert warns there are 21 coronavirus symptoms you need to be aware of

He has previously warned Brits that they need to be aware of additional symptoms not listed by the NHS.

www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk

A Covid-19 expert, responsible for the commonly used coronavirus symptom app has warned that there are actually 21 symptoms people need to be aware of.

Professor Tim Spector, from King's College London is the Principal Investigator of the PREDICT studies and the ZOE Covid Symptom Study app.

He has previously warned Brits that they need to be aware of additional symptoms not listed by the NHS.
One of which being how your nails could provide a clear indication that you are recovering from the deadly virus.

The professor explained that people with a “clear line” growing out of their nail may have had the virus before.
The NHS currently lists three key symptoms of the deadly bug responsible for the global health crisis.
The are a persistent, newly developed cough, a fever or a high temperature, and a sudden loss of taste or smell.
But now Prof Spector has said: "People urgently need to know there are more than just the three classic symptoms.
"The top symptoms being currently logged in the Zoe app are; headache, runny nose, sneezing, fatigue and sore throat, which for many will feel more like a common cold.

"The earlier people can catch the infection, the quicker they can self-isolate until symptoms abate and stop the spread.
"We encourage anyone feeling under the weather to take a test as soon as they can and stay at home.”
He added: “The data from the ZOE COVID Study has shown that there are over 20 different symptoms of COVID-19, not just the classic three: fever, cough and anosmia.
“The COVID-19 situation in the UK is different to last summer due to new variants and the vaccine roll out.
“We’ve found that the symptoms in younger people and post-vaccination are both different."
Here is the full list of 21 symptoms to look out for according Prof Spector:

1. High temperature (fever)
2. Chills or shivers
3. Persistent cough
4. Loss or change of smell
5. Loss or change in taste
6. Headache
7. Unusual tiredness
8. Sore throat
9. Sudden confusion
10. Skin rash
11. Changes in the mouth or tongue
12. Covid fingers or toes
13. Shortness of breath
14. Chest pains
15. Muscle pains
16. Horse voice
17. Diarrhoea
18. Skipping meals
19. Abdominal pains
20. Runny nose
21. Sneezing

 

[yorksrob]

I'm not sure why, but lots of local newspaper sites are reporting "The 21 Symptoms of Covid". This appears to be taken from a page published back in March on this Zoe site on what are and are not common symptoms of covid. An example from my local rag, but the stories are the usual cut & paste jobs elsewhere:

Covid-19 expert warns there are 21 coronavirus symptoms you need to be aware of

He has previously warned Brits that they need to be aware of additional symptoms not listed by the NHS.

www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk

"The top symptoms being currently logged in the Zoe app are; headache, runny nose, sneezing, fatigue and sore throat, which for many will feel more like a common cold."

Well done SAGE, you've just 'discovered' hayfever.