Stations unsure of their name

[bramling]

Did the railway have anything to do with the divergent spelling of Tonbridge and Tunbridge Wells?
As for the Welsh 'Wells' towns, I believe the official Welsh names for them (Llandrindod, Llanwrtyd etc) do not use an equivalent for the English suffix, but the simple one word. (Well, simple if one knows Welsh!)

That’s my theory about the three spa towns, and it would explain why the signage remains at two of them. Perhaps when the signage is replaced the Wells will properly disappear.

It’s a bit odd though, as the towns in question seem to use Wells pretty liberally. Perhaps a case that the towns wish to use it to promote themselves as holiday resorts (especially Llandrindod - which even calls itself “Llandrindod Wells Spa” in many places!), but the Cardiff-leaning elements wish to move away from the English-ised names. A bit of politics perhaps, or maybe I’m reading too much into it.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 Jun 2021 ==

I’ve been here 20 years, and lived on all sides of the city except the Abbey side, and as I said, it’s rare to hear the station called ‘City’.

It may well be that this has been a shift over time then, as I’m going back a little beyond 20 years. Perhaps in those days there was also people who remembered the third London Road station too, hence City might have been more relevant.

This is why I had a bit of a double-take moment seeing it coming it back into use, officially too.

 

[paul1609]

St James' Park, or St James's Park.

I assume we are discussing multiple names officially used for stations rather than colloquial ones? That would give a lot of localisms (Portsmouth Harbour - the harbour, Portsmouth & Southsea - the city)

I think locally in Portsmouth, Portsmouth & Southsea is referred to as the Town station as that was its name until the Southsea Branch closed in 1925. Portsmouth gained city status in 1926.

 

[ricoblade]

Yeah, it’s “the Central station” to me. Although outside of Newcastle and Tyne & Wear, referring to the station as Newcastle seems reasonable. Same with London - when outside of London, it’s a case of “getting in to London”. Also with cities with one mainline station, it seems strange to refer to ask when in Sheffield, “can you tell me how to get to Sheffield station?”

No one in Sheff would say that, they might say "can you tell me how to get to Midland station?" even though Victoria closed in 1970 (with a brief reopening in 1973).

 

[Purple Orange]

No one in Sheff would say that, they might say "can you tell me how to get to Midland station?" even though Victoria closed in 1970 (with a brief reopening in 1973).

Would there be many people from Sheffield asking how to get to Midland station?

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Us people still refer to Ashford (Kent) station as simply Ashford, rather than Ashford International. Bit ironic now considering hardly any Eurostar trains actually call at the station

Same with Dover; there was Dover Priory (for the town) and Dover Marine/Western Docks. We simply referred to the Priory station as plain Dover and as this is now the only station in the town, SouthEastern have not dropped the Priory name.

I remember this being mentioned before, there is a village called Shepherdswell, but the railway called the station Shepherd's Well.

The colliery village of Snowdown had the station named in honour of a nearby village: Snowdown & Nonington, but the latter part was dropped years ago

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I always had trouble with people who said they were going "up to town", when they meant London - from places like Watford, which is itself a town.
I suppose it's better than going to "downtown London".

I think the station we called Rotherham Masborough was originally just Masborough (or more likely Masboro' or Masbro').
It's academic these days as the station is closed, but I believe it was not considered to be in the town of Rotherham when the North Midland Railway was built in 1840.

Edit:
Just looked at a map from c1850, and the station on the main line is named Masbrough.
There is also a branch shown from Holmes (on the line to Sheffield) to a station called Rotherham, on the east side of the River Don, presumably a Midland property.
This was before the MS&L (GC) route was built through Rotherham Central.
View map: Yorkshire 289 (includes: Rawmarsh; Rotherham.) - Ordnance Survey Six-inch England and Wales, 1842-1952 (nls.uk)

 

[davews]

Or my local shack. The local community take the view that it is Martin's Heron though the painter seems to have left out the apostrophe at the station...

 

[Kite159]

Mansfield station was known in pre-closure days as Mansfield Town to distinguish it from Mansfield Central. Now that it is open again, simply as Mansfield, some on-train announcements still refer to it as Mansfield Town to distinguish it from Mansfield Woodhouse. It was always also the closest station to Mansfield Town (the football club).
Elsewhere, along the ECML, Alnmouth, or Alnmouth for Alnwick? Edinburgh, or Edinburgh Waverley? Haymarket, or Edinburgh Haymarket? Leuchars, or Leuchars for St Andrews?

Mansfield was the one I was thinking about when I saw this thread, the guards called it Mansfield Town which does make sense to avoid confusion with Mansfield Woodhouse a couple miles to the north.

 

[YorksLad12]

Would there be many people from Sheffield asking how to get to Midland station?

There was a plan for the station in 2018 (I think I still have the document) called SMISM - Sheffield Midland Integrated Station Masterplan.

Strange how some names just refuse to fade away. Leeds has been Leeds since Central closed in 1967; they finally updated all of the platform signs during Leeds 1st in 1999-2001. Then in 2019 they rebuild the roof and entrance, and slapped a large sign on it that says "Leeds City Station"...

 

[bramling]

There was a plan for the station in 2018 (I think I still have the document) called SMISM - Sheffield Midland Integrated Station Masterplan.

Strange how some names just refuse to fade away. Leeds has been Leeds since Central closed in 1967; they finally updated all of the platform signs during Leeds 1st in 1999-2001. Then in 2019 they rebuild the roof and entrance, and slapped a large sign on it that says "Leeds City Station"...

Old habits do seem to stick in some places. Stuff like “Ashford International” just doesn’t seem to catch on in the real world.

Having said that, Parkway does seem to work otherwise the railway wouldn’t be so keen to use it. Goodness knows why as to me it’s an utterly meaningless term, and I’m sure that applies to the much of the population.

 

[JohnRegular]

Southampton or Southampton Central?
London Kings Cross or Kings Cross?
Edinburgh or Edinburgh Waverley?

Don't think I have ever heard Southampton Central referred to as just 'Southampton'- all train announcements and signage say Southampton Central, and locally it's either 'central station' or possibly just 'the station' as in most other places.

'Southampton station' looks and sounds very odd to me after so many years of hearing it with 'central'.

 

[bramling]

Don't think I have ever heard Southampton Central referred to as just 'Southampton'- all train announcements and signage say Southampton Central, and locally it's either 'central station' or possibly just 'the station' as in most other places.

'Southampton station' looks and sounds very odd to me after so many years of hearing it with 'central'.

I’m sure I remember announcements in the 90s starting with “Southampton; this is Southampton...”. However I’d agree that the full name seems to be almost universally used.

It’s certainly interesting there’s quite a few examples where there are variations in name used officially by the railway - as with the Llandrindod / Llandrindod Wells example.

 

[Tomos y Tanc]

That’s my theory about the three spa towns, and it would explain why the signage remains at two of them. Perhaps when the signage is replaced the Wells will properly disappear.

It’s a bit odd though, as the towns in question seem to use Wells pretty liberally. Perhaps a case that the towns wish to use it to promote themselves as holiday resorts (especially Llandrindod - which even calls itself “Llandrindod Wells Spa” in many places!), but the Cardiff-leaning elements wish to move away from the English-ised names. A bit of politics perhaps, or maybe I’m reading too much into it.

It's pretty simple really. Ever since the 1980s the law has required that the Welsh and English languages are treated on the basis of equality in Wales. This means that where a place has different names in English and Welsh both have to be used unless a compromise can be reached to settle on a single name.

Sometimes that's not possible due to strong local feelings. Hence Flint / Y Fflint and Barry / Y Barri but in other examples English spellings such as Carnarvon, Portmadoc etc have been dropped without any real opposition.

The wells suffix was added to the existing Welsh language place names in Victorian times in an attempt to boost the tourist trade and removing it to avoid doubled up signage is really no big deal.

People are free to use what ever name they want, of course. Residents of Builth (Wells) for instance, tend to use the Welsh name Llanfair for the town itself and the English name Builth for the wider district. Pontypridd is always Ponty to both Welsh and English speakers apart for valleys clubbers for whom it's Ponty Carlo!

 

[Bletchleyite]

Would there be many people from Sheffield asking how to get to Midland station?

It'd probably just be "the station".

 

[43066]

There was a plan for the station in 2018 (I think I still have the document) called SMISM - Sheffield Midland Integrated Station Masterplan.

Sheffield “midland” seems odd given that Sheffield is generally considered to be in the north of England. I suppose it’s a reference to the fact the station is on the midland mainline, but so are London St Pancras, Harpenden, St Albans etc. and none of those are referred to as “midland”.

Old habits do seem to stick in some places. Stuff like “Ashford International” just doesn’t seem to catch on in the real world.

Only marginally less unfortunate than “Stratford International”, which (AFAIK) has never seen an international service since it opened.

 

[LSWR Cavalier]

"Royal" Leamington Spa (main station for Warwick) is one of my favourites.

I think traditional, longer names are often good, for example for people who knew the place and return after many years away.

 

[duncombec]

Did the railway have anything to do with the divergent spelling of Tonbridge and Tunbridge Wells?

Wikipedia suggests, via an (archived) link, that it was the GPO, upon request from the Ratepayer's Board. Following the name of the town, it seems to have migrated from O to U and back to O over the course of time. Railway not to "blame" there!

Us people still refer to Ashford (Kent) station as simply Ashford, rather than Ashford International. Bit ironic now considering hardly any Eurostar trains actually call at the station

Same with Dover; there was Dover Priory (for the town) and Dover Marine/Western Docks. We simply referred to the Priory station as plain Dover and as this is now the only station in the town, SouthEastern have not dropped the Priory name.

I remember this being mentioned before, there is a village called Shepherdswell, but the railway called the station Shepherd's Well.

The colliery village of Snowdown had the station named in honour of a nearby village: Snowdown & Nonington, but the latter part was dropped years ago

I wonder if the thing here is to do with changes, rather than "always known as". I would agree that I only ever refer to Ashford for town or station, but always use Dover Priory - Dover to me would refer to the town, not the station.
I noticed some time ago (2019?) that SouthEastern's on-board recorded announcements had swapped from /Shepherdzwell/ to /Shepherds Well/.

I really want to mention Stratford International (High Speed) ... let me find a thread on stations that ought to be renamed... !

 

[bramling]

It's pretty simple really. Ever since the 1980s the law has required that the Welsh and English languages are treated on the basis of equality in Wales. This means that where a place has different names in English and Welsh both have to be used unless a compromise can be reached to settle on a single name.

Sometimes that's not possible due to strong local feelings. Hence Flint / Y Fflint and Barry / Y Barri but in other examples English spellings such as Carnarvon, Portmadoc etc have been dropped without any real opposition.

The wells suffix was added to the existing Welsh language place names in Victorian times in an attempt to boost the tourist trade and removing it to avoid doubled up signage is really no big deal.

People are free to use what ever name they want, of course. Residents of Builth (Wells) for instance, tend to use the Welsh name Llanfair for the town itself and the English name Builth for the wider district. Pontypridd is always Ponty to both Welsh and English speakers apart for valleys clubbers for whom it's Ponty Carlo!

That makes good sense, just I’m surprised Llandrindod seems readily happy to have dropped the Wells given it is widely used locally (albeit no doubt to attract tourists, as you allude to).

I’m just a bit surprised they haven’t gone for both versions on the signage, which road signs generally still seem to.

For the other two it’s perhaps less clear cut as these are smaller and less touristy, but again the road signs all seem to include Wells.

Perhaps I’m just over analysing it, but plain “Llandrindod” just seems a little odd to me, having been used to the full title used over many years. It’s like referring to “Tunbridge Wells” as plain “Tunbridge” to me. But there again I’m not local, so am looking at it from a different perspective. I’m also looking at it from a railway perspective where Wells seems to have been in heavy use for many years.

At least Llandrindod is largely consistent though (albeit the old signal box on the platform has a name board with the full name, and I wonder what the key tokens used by the train crews read?). But Llanwrtyd Wells is just plain Llanwrtyd in the timetables and such, but Llanwrtyd Wells on the platform signs.

 

[urbophile]

I always had trouble with people who said they were going "up to town", when they meant London - from places like Watford, which is itself a town.
I suppose it's better than going to "downtown London".

off topic, but when I lived in Kirkby, a town just outside Liverpool, locals would say 'going to town' when they meant the city, and 'to the townie' when they meant Kirkby town centre. But both are a long way from that London.

 

[HarryL]

Strange how some names just refuse to fade away. Leeds has been Leeds since Central closed in 1967; they finally updated all of the platform signs during Leeds 1st in 1999-2001. Then in 2019 they rebuild the roof and entrance, and slapped a large sign on it that says "Leeds City Station"...

Even Railtrack signage wasn't 100% sure which to use, the trolley signage had Leeds City written on them for whatever reason when nothing else used it.

 

[zwk500]

I really want to mention Stratford International (High Speed) ... let me find a thread on stations that ought to be renamed... !

https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/stations-you-would-rename.212826/

 

[aliceh]

Don't think I have ever heard Southampton Central referred to as just 'Southampton'- all train announcements and signage say Southampton Central, and locally it's either 'central station' or possibly just 'the station' as in most other places.

'Southampton station' looks and sounds very odd to me after so many years of hearing it with 'central'.

I have a vague memory that it was just 'Southampton' until around the same time that the airport station became Southampton Airport Parkway.

And on that topic... "Southampton Airport Parkway" or "Southampton Airport (Parkway)".... ?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

That makes good sense, just I’m surprised Llandrindod seems readily happy to have dropped the Wells given it is widely used locally (albeit no doubt to attract tourists, as you allude to).

In Welsh, a well (spring) is Ffynnon (as in Ffynnongroyw or Pontyffynnon or Treffynnon).
So it's odd that the 3 "spa" stations on the Central Wales line don't use it in their name.

TfW serve Cheltenham Spa but don't use a Welsh name for the place (unlike Gloucester - Caerloyw).

 

[YorksLad12]

Sheffield “midland” seems odd given that Sheffield is generally considered to be in the north of England. I suppose it’s a reference to the fact the station is on the midland mainline, but so are London St Pancras, Harpenden, St Albans etc. and none of those are referred to as “midland”.

It was the Midland Railway station, as opposed to Sheffield Victoria which was the Great Central one.

 

[Horizon22]

Southampton or Southampton Central?
London Kings Cross or Kings Cross?
Edinburgh or Edinburgh Waverley?

Southampton Central - to prevent confusion with Airport Parkway

 

[43066]

It was the Midland Railway station, as opposed to Sheffield Victoria which was the Great Central one.

Thanks, I hadn’t appreciated that.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

It was the Midland Railway station, as opposed to Sheffield Victoria which was the Great Central one.

Although the Midland reached Carlisle via Leeds, I don't think there were any "Midland" monikers north of Sheffield?
Places like Rotherham, Leeds, Bradford, Kirby Lonsdale and Appleby were given other names (local or "East/West").
I don't think any stations on the Bristol-Birmingham-Derby line had Midland in their names either.
Rugby was for a time Rugby Midland, though it wasn't a Midland Railway-owned station.

 

[SargeNpton]

Or my local shack. The local community take the view that it is Martin's Heron though the painter seems to have left out the apostrophe at the station...

I think that it was British Rail policy that possessive apostrophes were generally omitted - possibly as part of BR's Design Council work on standardising station signage in the mid-1960s. So in London you have Kings Cross for the main line station, but King's Cross St Pancras for the Underground station.

The only current National Rail station I can think of, offhand, that does include apostrophes is HALL-I'-TH'-WOOD (and BESSES O' TH' BARN before it transferred over to the Manchester Metrolink).

 

[PeterC]

Colchester tends to be referred to locally as North Station.

Also of course it often gets called Colchester North.

The junction name on the roundabout signs outside the station is "North Station" but the exit for the station is signed as "Colchester Station"

 

[Dr_Paul]

Ashford is announced as 'Ashford Surrey' at Waterloo, but I don't know anyone who calls it that. If anyone wishes to distinguish it from Ashford in Kent, it's called Ashford Middlesex.