Should Scotrail order tilting trains?

[Wolfie]

Only Avanti's 221s have tilt, none of the other 22x classes do (XC removed it from their 221s).

Duh! You are absolutely correct, my bad.

 

[RailWonderer]

I did suggest a while back that Scotrail should take on 221s and the response was mixed. They would be very useful on the IC routes although gauge clearance for the WH and the FNL would be unlikely.

 

[waverley47]

I did suggest a while back that Scotrail should take on 221s and the response was mixed. They would be very useful on the IC routes although gauge clearance for the WH and the FNL would be unlikely.

They'd never manage on the rural lines. Too big in winter, too absurdly inefficient with space on a line where track lengths are limited, entirely overengineered and heavy. They'd be about as unsuitable a unit for the whl as you could possibly come up with. You need large windows, low top speed and light units, with high acceleration and ability to lose/gain coaches for busy periods.

They might be suitable for the main line routes, but the franchise specification was specifically written as to not include "trains with smelly toilets" and even then, they're pretty inefficient. It also happens that they won't be available (barring massive investment by DfT) when time comes for ScotRail to replace the HSTs. It's likely they'll live out the rest of their life at XC.

 

[tiptoptaff]

Only Avanti's 221s have tilt, none of the other 22x classes do (XC removed it from their 221s).

As far as I'm aware, TASS is still installed, just isolated.

 

[RobShipway]

As far as I'm aware, TASS is still installed, just isolated.

I am not saying that it is correct but the wiki page for class 221 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_221) states the following:

"CrossCountry's Class 221s operate alongside 220s on the routes inherited from Virgin CrossCountry. Since these routes are not cleared for tilting operation (with the exception of Wolverhampton to Stockport), in 2008 the tilting equipment was locked out of use and shortly afterwards was isolated altogether, replacing the hydraulic rams with fixed tie-bars. This change was made to improve reliability and reduce maintenance costs"

But like Bletchleyite I thought that TASS had been removed due to the weight on the XC 221's, but I cannot find anything to verify this is the case. So I suspect that it is just locked out.

 

[waverley47]

I am not saying that it is correct but the wiki page for class 221 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_221) states the following:

"CrossCountry's Class 221s operate alongside 220s on the routes inherited from Virgin CrossCountry. Since these routes are not cleared for tilting operation (with the exception of Wolverhampton to Stockport), in 2008 the tilting equipment was locked out of use and shortly afterwards was isolated altogether, replacing the hydraulic rams with fixed tie-bars. This change was made to improve reliability and reduce maintenance costs"

But like Bletchleyite I thought that TASS had been removed due to the weight on the XC 221's, but I cannot find anything to verify this is the case. So I suspect that it is just locked out.

It is indeed locked out and inoperable, as the Tass forms part of the overall suspension of the passenger cabins. While it could theoretically be reimplemented, this would most likely not be worth the considerable cost for limited time savings down the Cherwell valley route (as an aside, I'm not even sure that the tilt beacons along the Cherwell line are even extant any more).