Modern Railways: LNER and compulsory reservations

[dan5324]

Jess wept reading this it’s no wonder the railways are deserted yet roads are bursting at the seams...

 

[kez19]

I know its been spoken about but I looked on their twitter regarding reservations etc

https://twitter.com/LNER/status/1386946999614906369

So if someone who booked on specific trains that are delayed or cancelled - you now have to reserve for next available train so what happens if you are in area you don't properly know, trains are fully booked (per se) but yet you want to get to your destination what happens next? (this is probably worst case scenario), but I remember when my train was delayed from York to return to Newcastle, I went to the LNER ticket office (as I thought I missed the train yet was in the station prior), had been advised train ran late but will be on platform as planned but when I boarded (sure it was conductors own fault not mine, but conductor told me I was on wrong train and should be next train but yet my ticket matched the reservation)?, it also for me when you are on the right one you get a feeling you will be chucked off for no reason even though you have paid.

So in other words if I have booked a ticket on an either delayed or cancelled train I will have to rebook (hope for a seat) then apply for a delay repay, this situation looks like its causing more misery than being a simple solution?

 

[Kite159]

I know its been spoken about but I looked on their twitter regarding reservations etc

https://twitter.com/LNER/status/1386946999614906369

So if someone who booked on specific trains that are delayed or cancelled - you now have to reserve for next available train so what happens if you are in area you don't properly know, trains are fully booked (per se) but yet you want to get to your destination what happens next? (this is probably worst case scenario), but I remember when my train was delayed from York to return to Newcastle, I went to the LNER ticket office (as I thought I missed the train yet was in the station prior), had been advised train ran late but will be on platform as planned but when I boarded (sure it was conductors own fault not mine, but conductor told me I was on wrong train and should be next train but yet my ticket matched the reservation)?, it also for me when you are on the right one you get a feeling you will be chucked off for no reason even though you have paid.

So in other words if I have booked a ticket on an either delayed or cancelled train I will have to rebook (hope for a seat) then apply for a delay repay, this situation looks like its causing more misery than being a simple solution?

Lucky the 11:33 to Leeds had spare seats to allow the passengers from the cancelled service to "reserve" seats.

Had it been a day where trains towards Leeds were all reserved, the passengers will probably get told to go via Euston or to wait until the next service with available seats...

 

[kez19]

Lucky the 11:33 to Leeds had spare seats to allow the passengers from the cancelled service to "reserve" seats.

Had it been a day where trains towards Leeds were all reserved, the passengers will probably get told to go via Euston or to wait until the next service with available seats...

totally understand and same time nightmare for some!

 

[Ianigsy]

So if someone who booked on specific trains that are delayed or cancelled - you now have to reserve for next available train so what happens if you are in area you don't properly know, trains are fully booked (per se) but yet you want to get to your destination what happens next? (this is probably worst case scenario), but I remember when my train was delayed from York to return to Newcastle, I went to the LNER ticket office (as I thought I missed the train yet was in the station prior), had been advised train ran late but will be on platform as planned but when I boarded (sure it was conductors own fault not mine, but conductor told me I was on wrong train and should be next train but yet my ticket matched the reservation)?, it also for me when you are on the right one you get a feeling you will be chucked off for no reason even though you have paid.

So in other words if I have booked a ticket on an either delayed or cancelled train I will have to rebook (hope for a seat) then apply for a delay repay, this situation looks like its causing more misery than being a simple solution?

Could be interesting if the train in question was the Highland Chieftain or the evening Skipton or Bradford.

 

[JonathanH]

Could be interesting if the train in question was the Highland Chieftain or the evening Skipton or Bradford.

Not really any different from the position before compulsory reservations. It is just the rebooking isn't just 'get on the next train', instead you need a replacement reservation.

Indeed, it may be better as they will know how many people need onward travel.

 

[Taunton]

Jess wept reading this it’s no wonder the railways are deserted yet roads are bursting at the seams...

This just sums it all up nicely, doesn't it, how the Railway Bubble just don't get it.

The railway should be bending over backwards currently to encourage as many people back as possible onto trains. Instead they come up with something the opposite.

 

[kez19]

Could be interesting if the train in question was the Highland Chieftain or the evening Skipton or Bradford.

This one at the time was from London to Edinburgh (wasn’t Azuma at time, or at time Azuma was being phased in)

 

[Ianno87]

This just sums it all up nicely, doesn't it, how the Railway Bubble just don't get it.

The railway should be bending over backwards currently to encourage as many people back as possible onto trains. Instead they come up with something the opposite.

Perhaps compulsory reservations and the seat guarantee that gives are what the 80-90% of the population who don't regularly use rail actually **want**? With easy app/Web based booking for reservation. Time for the industry to think differently and try a different tact - it's traditional user base may not come back. The "forum bubble" I'd argue doesn't get this.

For the next few years at least, I'd expect packing people onto crowded long distance trains Maundy Thursday style to be deemed pretty much unacceptable by many, and a terrible "shop window" for the industry. CR is the industry's solution - nobody has offered a better solution.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 27 Apr 2021 ==

Not really any different from the position before compulsory reservations. It is just the rebooking isn't just 'get on the next train', instead you need a replacement reservation.

Indeed, it may be better as they will know how many people need onward travel.

Yes, they'll know immediately that X people will have missed a connection, and plan accordingly.

 

[yorksrob]

Perhaps compulsory reservations and the seat guarantee that gives are what the 80-90% of the population who don't regularly use rail actually **want**? With easy app/Web based booking for reservation. Time for the industry to think differently and try a different tact - it's traditional user base may not come back. The "forum bubble" I'd argue doesn't get this.

For the next few years at least, I'd expect packing people onto crowded long distance trains Maundy Thursday style to be deemed pretty much unacceptable by many, and a terrible "shop window" for the industry. CR is the industry's solution - nobody has offered a better solution.

I think that there's a lot that they can do. My solution would be:

-Go to counted places for advanced purchase, just give people the option of a reservation if they want it.
-If a train is busy, make it easy and cheap/free for people to book on another train.

The problem is, the rail industry finds it easier to tie people down more and more. It's been going on for years - this is just the extension.

People don't want to be tied down. They are used to travelling when they like.

 

[alistairlees]

I think that there's a lot that they can do. My solution would be:

-Go to counted places for advanced purchase, just give people the option of a reservation if they want it.
-If a train is busy, make it easy and cheap/free for people to book on another train.

The problem is, the rail industry finds it easier to tie people down more and more. It's been going on for years - this is just the extension.

People don't want to be tied down. They are used to travelling when they like.

I think you have conflated "forum members" with "people" here. They are not the same.

 

[Ianno87]

People don't want to be tied down. They are used to travelling when they like.

Some people value the flexibility* yes. I'd wager a good chunk of LNER's passenger base are either on Advances, or on Flexible tickets but using their seat reservation (and have no interest in actually using the ticket flexibly). I know regular travellers who wouldn't dream.of "going for the earlier train" on the busiest days for long journeys, as they prefer the security of their booked seat and not having to "stampede" at King's Cross.

*Flexibility will of course still be possible on all but the busiest trains by re-reserving at least 5 mins before.

 

[yorksrob]

I think you have conflated "forum members" with "people" here. They are not the same.

"People" are used to travelling where and when they want. "People" are motorists, bus users, cyclists, pedestrians and they don't have to book.

 

[ash39]

For the next few years at least, I'd expect packing people onto crowded long distance trains Maundy Thursday style to be deemed pretty much unacceptable by many, and a terrible "shop window" for the industry. CR is the industry's solution - nobody has offered a better solution.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 27 Apr 2021 ==

So the 'solution', as you call it, to getting people back onto trains is to stop trains becoming too crowded by making reservations compulsory?

Let that sink in, because it's absolute nonsense.

 

[Ianno87]

I think you have conflated "forum members" with "people" here. They are not the same.

And "people" (in the general sense) will have very different expectations of the service train operators should be providing in the post-Covid years. "Pack 'em in" ain't going to be acceptable.

 

[yorksrob]

Some people value the flexibility* yes. I'd wager a good chunk of LNER's passenger base are either on Advances, or on Flexible tickets but using their seat reservation (and have no interest in actually using the ticket flexibly). I know regular travellers who wouldn't dream.of "going for the earlier train" on the busiest days for long journeys, as they prefer the security of their booked seat and not having to "stampede" at King's Cross.

*Flexibility will of course still be possible on all but the busiest trains by re-reserving at least 5 mins before.

But the point is, the people who are happy using advances and reservations are already using advances and reservations. The industry needs to attract people who are used to travelling when they want.

 

[Ianno87]

"People" are used to travelling where and when they want. "People" are motorists, bus users, cyclists, pedestrians and they don't have to book.

People have to book on plane journeys, for cinemas, dentist appointments, and countless other things...

So the 'solution', as you call it, to getting people back onto trains is to stop trains becoming too crowded by making reservations compulsory?

Let that sink in, because it's absolute nonsense.

Yes, because it spreads the load and makes more people feel comfortable with travelling overall. Let that sink in.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 27 Apr 2021 ==

But the point is, the people who are happy using advances and reservations are already using advances and reservations. The industry needs to attract people who are used to travelling when they want.

They might not be coming back. And those that do just need to open their phone up 5 mins before departure. No big deal.

 

[JonathanH]

So the 'solution', as you call it, to getting people back onto trains is to stop trains becoming too crowded by making reservations compulsory?

Let that sink in, because it's absolute nonsense.

All the radio adverts about trains at the moment emphasise three things:
* cleanliness
* booking a contactless ticket by application
* reserving space

These are undoubtedly what the railway thinks will encourage travel, not a free for all.

 

[Domh245]

So the 'solution', as you call it, to getting people back onto trains is to stop trains becoming too crowded by making reservations compulsory?

Let that sink in, because it's absolute nonsense.

"No, sorry, you can't travel on the train today when you (and most other people) want to - you'll have to take literally anything else instead...."

 

[yorksrob]

And "people" (in the general sense) will have very different expectations of the service train operators should be providing in the post-Covid years. "Pack 'em in" ain't going to be acceptable.

I don't think making people reserve a seat from Doncaster to York for example, is going to be acceptable either.

 

[ash39]

Yes, because it spreads the load and makes more people feel comfortable with travelling overall. Let that sink in.

No it doesn't. People want to travel when they want to travel. They will use alternatives, most likely the car.

 

[yorksrob]

People have to book on plane journeys, for cinemas, dentist appointments, and countless other things...




Yes, because it spreads the load and makes more people feel comfortable with travelling overall. Let that sink in.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 27 Apr 2021 ==



They might not be coming back. And those that do just need to open their phone up 5 mins before departure. No big deal.

A plane journey is not the same as an intermediate distance domestic journey for most people.

Railway people need to understand this.

 

[Ianno87]

"No, sorry, you can't travel on the train today when you (and most other people) want to - you'll have to take literally anything else instead...."

Most people are capable of organising their lives, if they need to be on a particular train.

I don't think making people reserve a seat from Doncaster to York for example, is going to be acceptable either.

Why? When it's easy and can be done with 5 minutes notice?

No it doesn't. People want to travel when they want to travel. They will use alternatives, most likely the car.

Or just wait for the next train in the pub.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 27 Apr 2021 ==

A plane journey is not the same as an intermediate distance domestic journey for most people.

Railway people need to understand this.

And regular rail users need to understand why non-regular users may be put off taking the train, and what needs to change to make that happen, and get new markets to rail.

 

[ash39]

All the radio adverts about trains at the moment emphasise three things:
* cleanliness
* booking a contactless ticket by application
* reserving space

These are undoubtedly what the railway thinks will encourage travel, not a free for all.

OK so let's say you're travelling to an event, for arguments sake a football match. Pre-Covid, all the trains leading up to kick off will be fairly busy with the last couple of services being full & standing.

So the solution we are now facing is to spread this out so some of the fans arrive hours before kick off and some at half time, then sit shoulder to shoulder (as close if not closer than on the train...) then after the match (and a few beers) patiently wait in a socially distanced queue at the station until its their turn to board the first train they could get a reservation on?

It won't be policed and people will end up boarding anyway.

 

[Ianno87]

OK so let's say you're travelling to an event, for arguments sake a football match. Pre-Covid, all the trains leading up to kick off will be fairly busy with the last couple of services being full & standing.

So the solution we are now facing is to spread this out so some of the fans arrive hours before kick off and some at half time, then sit shoulder to shoulder (as close if not closer than on the train...) then after the match (and a few beers) patiently wait in a socially distanced queue at the station until its their turn to board the first train they could get a reservation on?

It won't be policed and people will end up boarding anyway.

Looking at places like Euston, they already have well-rehearsed queueing procedures that prioritise reservation holders. It's really a non-issue.

 

[Watershed]

Why? When it's easy and can be done with 5 minutes notice?

The journey time from York to Doncaster is shorter than a lot of Tube journeys. Would you just shrug your shoulders if TfL started demanding that commuters reserve a seat on the tube?

It's a bit of a head scratcher that some think the answer to a capacity problem (overcrowding) is reducing capacity (banning standing).

Most of the complaints/negative image from overcrowding happens when there is disruption - i.e. when capacity is at its lowest. So is CR going to be vigorously enforced then (meaning that people will be even more inconvenienced and delayed, possibly overnight)? Or are people going to be herded onto the next available train (in which case, why bother with CR at all)?

 

[Domh245]

Most people are capable of organising their lives, if they need to be on a particular train.

In many cases, I'd agree. But the times when CR is most likely to limit the number of people on a train (presumably encouraging people to take the train?) are things that they tend not to be able to control, like bank holidays or other large events. Railway either throws more capacity at it (which it can't/won't), suspends CR (to the annoyance of these passengers that have supposedly been won over by their guaranteed no-standing train), or tell people "tough luck, have you considered driving"

 

[Ianno87]

The journey time from York to Doncaster is shorter than a lot of Tube journeys. Would you just shrug your shoulders if TfL started demanding that commuters reserve a seat on the tube?

No, because that is false equivalence, and a totally different type of service (and Completely impractical).

It is mind boggling that some think the answer to a capacity problem (overcrowding) is reducing capacity (banning standing)...

No, the solution is to use reservations to better spread demand across the available capacity by directing passengers away from full trains in advance.That's really not a hard concept to grasp.

 

[Kite159]

The journey time from York to Doncaster is shorter than a lot of Tube journeys. Would you just shrug your shoulders if TfL started demanding that commuters reserve a seat on the tube?

It's a bit of a head scratcher that some think the answer to a capacity problem (overcrowding) is reducing capacity (banning standing)...

Especially as someone travelling between York & Doncaster will be taking up a seat reservation away from someone travelling longer distance, whereas in the past if they had to stand for that short journey then they would.

Likewise Leeds - Wakefield

 

[Ianno87]

In many cases, I'd agree. But the times when CR is most likely to limit the number of people on a train (presumably encouraging people to take the train?) are things that they tend not to be able to control, like bank holidays or other large events. Railway either throws more capacity at it (which it can't/won't), suspends CR (to the annoyance of these passengers that have supposedly been won over by their guaranteed no-standing train), or tell people "tough luck, have you considered driving"

You could manage situations like that by deliberately holding back quotas of seats that are unreservedly until 24/48 hours before (or whatever) to keep some capacity for short-notice demand.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 27 Apr 2021 ==

Especially as someone travelling between York & Doncaster will be taking up a seat reservation away from someone travelling longer distance, whereas in the past if they had to stand for that short journey then they would.

Likewise Leeds - Wakefield

Or it just fills capacity lost by longer distance reservations (e.g. a seat otherwise occupied north of York and south of Doncaster)