Thorough Ticket Checks and Pendolino Automated Annoucements

[WestCoast]

I travel a lot Lancaster/Preston - Wigan/Warrington and it is a difficult route to monitor tickets as the time between stops is minimal and in particular, a ticket check on a large 9-car Pendolino is difficult and often not done. There are no barriers either and Virgin is anti-barrier so unlikely they will appear either. This is in contrast to East Coast (as was NXEC) who are pro-barrier and have installed them on similar routes to combat the problem.

People know this and so you do get a fair amount of evaders and the worst that can happen is you have to pay the fare onboard (but that's another story).

Today traveling Lancaster - Wigan there was a very pro-active "Train Manager" (to use Virgin's term) who performed full ticket checks between all stops. He got the shop staff to announce that all tickets should be carried when moving around the train and he turned these automated announcements on which I did not even know existed! They announced the stops and stopping pattern, take luggage with you e.t.c. They weren't brilliant but did the job and allowed the TM to do full ticket checks and then go to dispatch the train from the nearest door at each station. He didn't have to keep making announcements.

Has anyone heard these automated announcements before on a Pendolino?

 

[MidnightFlyer]

I travel a lot Lancaster/Preston - Wigan/Warrington and it is a difficult route to monitor tickets as the time between stops is minimal and in particular, a ticket check on a large 9-car Pendolino is difficult and often not done. There are no barriers either and Virgin is anti-barrier so unlikely they will appear either. This is in contrast to East Coast (as was NXEC) who are pro-barrier and have installed them on similar routes to combat the problem.

People know this and so you do get a fair amount of evaders and the worst that can happen is you have to pay the fare onboard (but that's another story).

Today traveling Lancaster - Wigan there was a very pro-active "Train Manager" (to use Virgin's term) who performed full ticket checks between all stops. He got the shop staff to announce that all tickets should be carried when moving around the train and he turned these automated announcements on which I did not even know existed! They announced the stops and stopping pattern, take luggage with you e.t.c. They weren't brilliant but did the job and allowed the TM to do full ticket checks and then go to dispatch the train from the nearest door at each station. He didn't have to keep making announcements.

Has anyone heard these automated announcements before on a Pendolino?

They are used for when the Tm either: CBA, is busy, or unavailable. What service was your Lancaster-Wigan today? Nice to see this happen. I travel on at least one strecth of this most weekends, and if you travel Lancaster-Warrington, your journey is free in most circumstances

 

[matt]

Has anyone heard these automated announcements before on a Pendolino?

I have heard them only a couple of times.

 

[WestCoast]

They are used for when the Tm either: CBA, is busy, or unavailable. What service was your Lancaster-Wigan today? Nice to see this happen. I travel on at least one strecth of this most weekends, and if you travel Lancaster-Warrington, your journey is free in most circumstances

I was rather surprised to see such a pro-active approach. It was the 11:46 from Lancaster I think...

If more TMs were bothered Virgin would have no problem! I think it was a Euston crew if it makes a difference.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

I was rather surprised to see such a pro-active approach. It was the 11:46 from Lancaster I think...

If more TMs were bothered Virgin would have no problem! I think it was a Euston crew if it makes a difference.

I'll check Its imply becomes a case of if they can be bothered or not: some will check away, others will think: I'll just go after Warrington to make money on London tickets

 

[cyclebytrain]

As someone who travels this route frequently, I don't think it's a secret that some are more proactive than others.

 

[MCR247]

I don't like the pendolino auto announcements. They don't announce the destination in the calling stops. Thats fine, but what annoys me as it is like this:

Calling at 'Rugby, Coventry, Birmingham International.....'

and it sounds like it hasn't finished, because it is the same as the middle stations whereas if it went

'... Birmingham International.'

 

[bengolding]

It's no secret that some parts of the Virgin network are a fare dodgers paradise and you can almost even guarantee a free First Class ride as ticket checks are often predictable when they happen. I was amazed that the automatic ticket gates were removed at Coventry when I heard they had been a success in increasing revenue. Despite barrier checks at New St (who just accept any kind of rail ticket!), I bet VT must lose a fair bit of revenue in the West Mids but do they care?

Other TOCs have random RPI staff on board checking tickets but I've never seen any on Virgin aside from the TM. Barrier checks at Euston appear to be random at best. With Virgin also offering an enhanced First Class complimentary service compared to other TOCs, I don't see why Virgin can't follow East Midlands Trains by allowing their First Class hosts to check ticket holders do indeed have First Class tickets before offering a service. Every time I use EMT First Class, my tickeet is never marked by the guard but by the customer host.

 

[tbtc]

There are no barriers either and Virgin is anti-barrier so unlikely they will appear either. This is in contrast to East Coast (as was NXEC) who are pro-barrier and have installed them on similar routes to combat the problem.

The cynical side of me wonders whether this is because Virgin have such a high subsidy that they don't have to worry about £50 here or there...

...whereas GNER/ NXEC had to pay so much back to the Government in "premium" that every penny counted and they sought to reclaim all potential fare revenue...

 

[MidnightFlyer]

VT are in quite a fortunate position for ticket gates - half their stations are perfect for it: Rugby, Coventry, Bhm Intl, Wolves, Stockport, Macclesfield, Stoke, Warrington BQ, Wigan NW, Stafford, Lancaster, Oxenholme, Penrith & Carlisle only have one exit.

 

[Lampshade]

Lancaster, Oxenholme, Penrith and Carlisle have two

EDIT: Oxenholme has three and Lancaster has four apparantly :?

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Lancaster, Oxenholme, Penrith and Carlisle have two

Well gate those too

 

[Lampshade]

Well gate those too

Really?

Really really?

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Really?

Really really?

VT wouldn't, but NX or Stagecoach would

 

[WestCoast]

VT wouldn't, but NX or Stagecoach would

I'm sure NX or Stagecoach would find a way!

 

[Mojo]

I see a number of problems with the approaches mentioned above.

If you do ticket checks between local stations then on the way down into London most likely the TM will ask for tickets from the last stop, which anyone can ignore if they don't have a ticket.

Barrier checks only stop stupid fare evaders. It's easy to avoid checks (in the cases mentioned above by using side entrances, or at New Street by using the lifts) by going round the barriers, or by double gating through the barriers. In addition people could buy a ticket to a station they are not going to and board a train. Of course the truly stupid fact about barriers is that most are only operational during the day and not at night!

 

[Aictos]

On East Coast, there is one guard I know who has the onboard PA play a announcement advising that the conductor will now carry out a full ticket check and for all passengers to have their tickets ready for inspection.

This guard being the only one I know if who has the system play such a announcement, I know most just make a manual announcement.

 

[WestCoast]

If you do ticket checks between local stations then on the way down into London most likely the TM will ask for tickets from the last stop, which anyone can ignore if they don't have a ticket.

Yes, you have a point, but that could be said for a lot of trains. In Particular, routes outside the south east where penalty fares are not in operation and barriers do not exist! For example, a Northern 180 (a large train where the guard can't track passengers) that had originated from Manchester Victoria and I boarded at Bolton, I could just ignore the guard!

 

[Pumbaa]

Has anyone heard these automated announcements before on a Pendolino?

Peak time services off Manchester use the auto-announcements frequently. But only after Stockport! I have found during my travels that there is a strong correlation between crew depot and ticket check frequency. London crews tend to be the best in my experience, and Glasgow, with Brum crews being the worst. Liverpool always tend to be on the ball, but stop to chat to pax far to regularly, meaning only one coach gets done before Stafford. Not a bad thing necessarily!

The cynic in me says that Virgin stop putting pressure on for extra ticket checks, as the difference in subsidy collected more than matches it. If they bothered doing checks faultlessly, they could end up with a smaller case for subsidy.
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I was rather surprised to see such a pro-active approach. It was the 11:46 from Lancaster I think...

1138? The crew would have changed at Preston anyway, a Glasgow/Preston crew would have worked Glasgow-Preston, with another crew taking over at Preston.

London only sign as far as Lancaster.

 

[87015]

West Mids trains have always been totally free. Best one was VT ripping the Cov barriers out in a sulk because the Centro 'trial' funding run out and despite it being a VT station and only the VT trains being ungripped they felt someone else should pay for the barrier staff!!

Heard a rumour once the move to do G21/B05 was to buy a saver in each direction Rugby-Five Ways (or similar shack) and have a months season for however much that came to..

 

[WestCoast]

1138? The crew would have changed at Preston anyway, a Glasgow/Preston crew would have worked Glasgow-Preston, with another crew taking over at Preston.

London only sign as far as Lancaster.

Yes, 1138, not brilliant with times :roll:. The auto announcements were switched on at Preston and a TM with a cockney accent (the only reason I thought Euston crew ) came round checking after Preston and then Wigan. I went to Warrington Bank Quay not Wigan as I said in the opening, I go on to Liverpool so I can use either, hence the mix up. I just decide on the train
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London crews tend to be the best in my experience, and Glasgow, with Brum crews being the worst.

Yes the Scottish crews seem very keen along with Euston crews!

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Peston crews are the best I jnow, not too keen on Euston or Wolves staff.

 

[WestCoast]

Peston crews are the best I jnow, not too keen on Euston or Wolves staff.

Most of Virgin Trains onboard staff are friendly and chatty which unfortunately cannot always be said for other TOCs..

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Most of Virgin Trains onboard staff are friendly and chatty which unfortunately cannot always be said for other TOCs..

I'll go with that, just some are really friendly, have a laugh with you, some are OK, and some are just pretty poor, Leeds guards on Northern and EC Newcastle guards always see money above staff.

 

[Geezertronic]

London crews tend to be the best in my experience, and Glasgow, with Brum crews being the worst.

I catch the 0741 BHI-EUS regularly that comes ECS from Oxley and very rarely do I not get my ticket checked.

 

[scotsman]

I've always found Virgin staff to be the the friendliest of any TOC I've travelled with. Must be something to do with the culture of the company. They're the only TOC that I've known to allow standing passengers seats in 1st Class (yeah, I don't travel off ScotRail very often). Is it because the Chief Exec is a basher? Or are a lot of the management still railwaymen and not businessmen?

 

[bengolding]

I catch the 0741 BHI-EUS regularly that comes ECS from Oxley and very rarely do I not get my ticket checked.

I would expect a ticket check on the 07:41 as it only stops at Coventry and then non-stop to Euston! What are the loadings like on that train bearing in mind it starts from BHI? I occasionally get the 07:30 from New St which runs non-stop to Euston in 68-71 mins depending on a clear run, and First isn't as busy as it used to be but Standard is always full, despite the train starting from Wolves.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I've always found Virgin staff to be the the friendliest of any TOC I've travelled with. Must be something to do with the culture of the company. They're the only TOC that I've known to allow standing passengers seats in 1st Class (yeah, I don't travel off ScotRail very often). Is it because the Chief Exec is a basher? Or are a lot of the management still railwaymen and not businessmen?

Declassifying coach G is still the norm on many popular Anglo-Scotish services from Euston and Glasgow, as was the case on my 11:30 service a few Wednesdays ago and the 16:40 back the next day. Only during the evening peak is there no declassifying due to the increased numbers of First Class customers.

The key problem with overcrowding at the moment seems to be on the hourly Scotland-Birmingham Voyagers. Some of the popular services really need to be a double Super Voyager as a single Pendolino is wholly insufficient, as was demonstrated by the chronic overcorwding on the Edinburgh Pendolinos over the summer.

 

[MCR247]

The chronic overcrowding was because of the Edinburgh festival

 

[scotsman]

Declassifying coach G is still the norm on many popular Anglo-Scotish services from Euston and Glasgow, as was the case on my 11:30 service a few Wednesdays ago and the 16:40 back the next day. Only during the evening peak is there no declassifying due to the increased numbers of First Class customers.

This was back in the days of Vrigin running Class 220s

 

[mickey]

Well gate those too

If a station has four exits and you put in four barriers, that means you have to pay at least four members of staff to man them (as keeping barriers closed with no staff is against the rules*, not least because of disability access and because there's always some tickets that don't work properly), and to do this at every station would soon eat away at any extra revenue you get.

*These rules apply at every TOC except Merseyrail which, as usual, thinks it can make up its own. Conway Park barriers are staffed only in the peaks. At other times able-bodied people can push open the manual gate themselves (regardless of whether they actually have a ticket!) but people in wheelchairs or with prams must either rely on other passengers to help them or wait for the ticket seller to notice them and wander slowly out of his booth to open it.

I don't see why Virgin can't follow East Midlands Trains by allowing their First Class hosts to check ticket holders do indeed have First Class tickets before offering a service.

When Virgin ran XC they did indeed do this, and (I think!) they still do on Voyagers. I'm not sure why they don't on Pendolinos, though leaving termini the TM usually does a quick check in 1st, before any meal orders are taken or drinks are given out (except coffee, of course, which is served within seconds of departure).

As for the automated announcements, I've heard them many times and they do annoy me. It's usually because the TM is feeling lazy. However, at least they are able to turn them off, unlike at some companies, so I suppose I should be grateful.