Companies That You Expect to Disappear Soon

[johntea]

Not the first time that a small retailer has found it cheaper to buy product in from a supermarket than by buying wholesale.

Possibly also partly explains why some supermarkets place a limit on the number of certain items that you can buy from them.

Many, many years ago I run a car boot stall selling mainly stationery with a good friend of mine, one of the top sellers was CD markers at 60p each or 2 for £1 - We were buying packs of 4 (might even have been 5/6!) from the local pound shop ...we also had some very Trotters Independent Traders stock at times, such as some A4 twin tower themed paper...weeks after 9/11!

To get back slightly to the theme of the topic, it is quite sad how market traders are suffering with the lack of footfall (plus even before Covid, greedy councils sticking the rent up!), fresh produce is still fairly popular but anything else they now get eaten alive by the likes of eBay!

 

[Mcr Warrior]

...we also had some very Trotters Independent Traders stock at times...

Fire damaged smoke alarms, King Edward VIII coronation mugs, that sort of thing?

 

[oxfordray1]

Fire damaged smoke alarms, King Edward VIII coronation mugs, that sort of thing?

Or wigs for men?

 

[C J Snarzell]

One has to admit the retail landscape is going to look pretty grim post covid. My own Company Argos/Sainsburys still has loads of shops to shut over the next 2 years and some of these will be big shops on Retail Parks. My own local area Barclays has shut all the branches in the smaller towns during covid, HSBC now intend to do likewise, then we have seen all the closures announced of other chain's like Thorntons, Debenhams, John Lewis, etc etc, independents that go without mention, there going to be one hell of a lot of empty retail units that's for sure, especially when you consider many towns had many empty retail units even before covid.

Banks are going through a massive 'cull' at present with many streamlining their branches. The small suburban branches are finished and even town centre ones are now at risk. TSB, Barclays and Yorkshire (soon to be Virgin) have all closed branches at prime locations in my neck of the woods.

I think all of us on here are in agreement at least that the traditional town centre as we know it has now gone and I suspect many council authorities will be looking at ways in the next 10 years to regenerate fallen commercial areas into residential or community environments.

Whether this will be economically viable in light of a long term recession post-Covid remains to be seen. Councils must be losing massive amounts of revenue from business rates by the growing number of vacant premises across our towns & cities.

CJ

 

[Gloster]

I said in an earlier post that the main post office in my local town was at the back of a soft furnishings shop. Last week walking through the town centre I saw that the post office was still open but at the back of an empty shop with a large sign in the window 'Retail opportunity available'.

In Newport, the main town on the Isle of Wight, there is no longer a main post office. About five years ago it moved out of its own building in the High Street to the Co-op near the bus station; the old post office became a Prezzo restaurant, but this has recently closed. The Co-op has recently closed and the post office with it. There are three smaller post offices around the edge of town, but unless you have a lot of time, most people will find them difficult to get to by public transport; you can do it by car, but for most it would be a special journey.

 

[D6130]

We are currently very lucky that in Hebden Bridge - a town of only 5,000 people - we still have a real post office, in a handsome purpose-built 1930s Jacobean-style building. However, we no longer have any banks, the last one - Lloyd's - having closed nearly three years ago. The nearest bank is now in Halifax, eight miles away.

 

[david1212]

....

As for Debenhams, it's a real shame, but the high street is changing and it seems department stores are no longer en vogue. My only worry is what will happen to town centres - what kind of redevelopment will happen. It would be sad to lose the town centre entirely but I can see that some serious redevelopment will need to happen.

I stopped WHSmiths as they were just so expensive for the things I was wanting, but I've noticed they've become more competitive in some areas. Just not in the area of food and drink at airports, train and bus stations!

One issue is people don't want many smart casual clothes. Go back 12+ months and for an evening out, dress down Friday at work etc it would still be jeans, cargos and a top / shirt if not Primark from Matalan, New Look and others with similar pricing including online with free returns. For office wear similar with the emphasis on regular replacement rather than better quality to last. As I've posted on more appropriate threads I see the only commercial use for some of the sites being satellite offices to get staff back together but without the long daily commute.

I've not bought anything in WHS for years, the last when I had a gift card to use. Instead I go to Wilko. I'm surprised they have survived but have put that down to high margins rather than volume of sales. Sometime I'll have a look out of interest.

One has to admit the retail landscape is going to look pretty grim post covid. My own Company Argos/Sainsburys still has loads of shops to shut over the next 2 years and some of these will be big shops on Retail Parks. My own local area Barclays has shut all the branches in the smaller towns during covid, HSBC now intend to do likewise, then we have seen all the closures announced of other chain's like Thorntons, Debenhams, John Lewis, etc etc, independents that go without mention, there going to be one hell of a lot of empty retail units that's for sure, especially when you consider many towns had many empty retail units even before covid.

Local to me I don't think the stand-alone Argos has been open since last March. With collection from Sainsburys and Sainsburys Local and home delivery I suspect it is on that list. While only a street away from the main shopping street it is off route so no use for any shop relying on casual passing trade hence realistically either offices or demolish and build housing. I would be surprised if any of the main Sainsburys are on the hit list.

The small local town now only has one bank left out of the ' big four ' + TSB. Another nearby has lost the NatWest. Back 10+ years ago a small shopping area near to where I work had all of the ' big four ' banks. Now down to two.

In Newport, the main town on the Isle of Wight, there is no longer a main post office. About five years ago it moved out of its own building in the High Street to the Co-op near the bus station; the old post office became a Prezzo restaurant, but this has recently closed. The Co-op has recently closed and the post office with it. There are three smaller post offices around the edge of town, but unless you have a lot of time, most people will find them difficult to get to by public transport; you can do it by car, but for most it would be a special journey.

A similar problem near to me. The main Post Office closed, and incidently apart from a couple of short lived lets as a card etc shop then art / prints has remained empty ever since, and went into the rear of a nearly Spar. Back several years ago it was closed for a while due to issues with the building then the Spar closed maybe two years ago. The Post Office remained initially but the building issues surfaced again soon after. Last time I was in the town centre I saw it had opened in the council building. The next nearest is on the fringe of the shopping area and too far for those with mobility issues. Likewise others around the housing areas are a special trip if not en-route. For those with bus passes and plenty of time at least two are close to bus stops with a frequent service.

 

[TechDan2002]

We are currently very lucky that in Hebden Bridge - a town of only 5,000 people - we still have a real post office, in a handsome purpose-built 1930s Jacobean-style building. However, we no longer have any banks, the last one - Lloyd's - having closed nearly three years ago. The nearest bank is now in Halifax, eight miles away.

We still have a dedicated post office in Penryn (population 7,000 ish) that saw a major refurbishment four years ago. Lloyds were the last bank to leave here too in 2016 and we also had a Barclays until 2011. Luckily Falmouth is only 2 miles away and still (for now) has branches of NatWest, HSBC, Santander, Barclays, Lloyds and Halifax. Nearby town Helston 10 miles West had branches for most major banks a few years ago, now only Barclays and Lloyds remain.

 

[superjohn]

Despite the exponential growth of online retail, Sainsbury’s are closing their only Online Fulfilment Centre in East London. It only opened five years ago and it appears the experiment has been deemed a failure. There was considerable initial cost involved in the automation and large refrigerated storage spaces. It must have proved significantly loss making for all of that money to be written off so soon. I recall that around 70% of the orders were actually for London businesses so I imagine that will have dropped of significantly since the pandemic and JS don’t anticipate it will return to the same levels.

I was involved at the early stages and was surprised that Sainsbury’s chose to go with manual picking, that is staff walking around the aisles with trolleys at a brand new, purpose built site. As that can be done in regular stores they might as well have done the picking there, presumably something they have now realised. After all, every online order represents a customer that would otherwise have come to a store. You can’t move for online pickers in all the supermarkets near me so it seems the model is working.

 

[37424]

Despite the exponential growth of online retail, Sainsbury’s are closing their only Online Fulfilment Centre in East London. It only opened five years ago and it appears the experiment has been deemed a failure. There was considerable initial cost involved in the automation and large refrigerated storage spaces. It must have proved significantly loss making for all of that money to be written off so soon. I recall that around 70% of the orders were actually for London businesses so I imagine that will have dropped of significantly since the pandemic and JS don’t anticipate it will return to the same levels.

I was involved at the early stages and was surprised that Sainsbury’s chose to go with manual picking, that is staff walking around the aisles with trolleys at a brand new, purpose built site. As that can be done in regular stores they might as well have done the picking there, presumably something they have now realised. After all, every online order represents a customer that would otherwise have come to a store. You can’t move for online pickers in all the supermarkets near me so it seems the model is working.

Yes Sainsburys have decided to run Home Delivery from the stores, but Argos working under a different Business model will loose Home Delivery from the stores for local fulfillment centres instead, which some might see as a slightly strange decision.

Local to me I don't think the stand-alone Argos has been open since last March. With collection from Sainsburys and Sainsburys Local and home delivery I suspect it is on that list. While only a street away from the main shopping street it is off route so no use for any shop relying on casual passing trade hence realistically either offices or demolish and build housing. I would be surprised if any of the main Sainsburys are on the hit list.

The small local town now only has one bank left out of the ' big four ' + TSB. Another nearby has lost the NatWest. Back 10+ years ago a small shopping area near to where I work had all of the ' big four ' banks. Now down to two.

If your local Stand Alone Store wasn't reopen by September then it wont re-open at all. If you consider West Yorks for instance where there were over a dozen stand alone stores it will likely go down to about 3 in the next 2 years, likely 1 in Bradford and 2 in Leeds, while Huddersfield, Wakefield, Halifax likely wont have any just an Instore. Not aware of an Sainsburys shutting other than the London Fulfilment centre and they are opening some new Sainsburys Local's

My local town lost Nat West and Lloyds a while back, Lloyds became part of an enlarged Wetherspoons. no surprise there, Barclays shut recently, HSBC intends to go in July, that leaves Yorkshire which surprisingly doesn't appear to be on the Virgin Money closure list, and the Halifax.

But you look at the future of small towns now, and they are just going to be reduced to a few convenience and bargin shops, charity shops, sandwich shops and takeaways, coffee shops, pubs, estate agents, and a Bank and Post Office if your lucky.

 

[SuspectUsual]

Yes Sainsburys have decided to run Home Delivery from the stores, but Argos working under a different Business model will loose Home Delivery from the stores for local fulfillment centres instead, which some might see as a slightly strange decision.

Im not sure why that’s so strange to be honest.

Argos have a much bigger range, higher average item value, higher average item cube, none of it short life, so stockholding and the amount of cash tied up in stock is a massive issue for them. Concentrating stock in a smaller number of locations means they can - as perverse as it may sound - offer better availability and reduced stockholding. There are also the obvious savings from closed stores. From a customer perspective, people don’t browse products in Argos, to all intents and purposes it’s a pseudo-Amazon so “dark” stores and click and collect / home delivery is logical, and Sainsbury’s stores with space carved out for an Argos c&c is perfect.

For Sainsbury’s it’s the other way round. They have the store estate, they have the supply chain infrastructure, and can sweat the asset a bit more by picking home delivery orders from the main store. They can also use cross-trained staff to work both conventional shelf filling and delivery picking. It also helps massively in reducing markdown and waste on fresh, which costs millions each week across the estate.

The only downside to picking online orders from a trading store is that you tend to get a higher substitution rate where items were available at the point of order but not by the time the order was picked, because no stock system can have visibility of what’s in a customer’s basket at any point in time. There’s also more damage in a store and more theft. In a fulfilment centre stock accuracy is much better, and the customer facing ordering system is integrated into the warehouse management system so there’s a constantly updating view of what’s physically there, what of that is assigned to previous orders and what’s therefore left for new orders.

 

[DavidGrain]

I went past a stand alone Argos a few weeks ago and it was collections only with a table across the doorway and outside queuing behind barriers on the pavement. The Argos in my local Sainsbury's has had the ordering terminals displaying a caption 'This screen is poorly' for months.

 

[37424]

Im not sure why that’s so strange to be honest.

Argos have a much bigger range, higher average item value, higher average item cube, none of it short life, so stockholding and the amount of cash tied up in stock is a massive issue for them. Concentrating stock in a smaller number of locations means they can - as perverse as it may sound - offer better availability and reduced stockholding. There are also the obvious savings from closed stores. From a customer perspective, people don’t browse products in Argos, to all intents and purposes it’s a pseudo-Amazon so “dark” stores and click and collect / home delivery is logical, and Sainsbury’s stores with space carved out for an Argos c&c is perfect.

For Sainsbury’s it’s the other way round. They have the store estate, they have the supply chain infrastructure, and can sweat the asset a bit more by picking home delivery orders from the main store. They can also use cross-trained staff to work both conventional shelf filling and delivery picking. It also helps massively in reducing markdown and waste on fresh, which costs millions each week across the estate.

The only downside to picking online orders from a trading store is that you tend to get a higher substitution rate where items were available at the point of order but not by the time the order was picked, because no stock system can have visibility of what’s in a customer’s basket at any point in time. There’s also more damage in a store and more theft. In a fulfilment centre stock accuracy is much better, and the customer facing ordering system is integrated into the warehouse management system so there’s a constantly updating view of what’s physically there, what of that is assigned to previous orders and what’s therefore left for new orders.

I think the better availability remains to be seen the In stores carry very little stock compared to the bigger Argos shops, and while we can get stock to the Instores very quickly under the existing system there are still plenty of customers who want what's in stock there and then that's why they come to Argos and they will loose that market. Many of the stores that reopened after the first lockdown did good business still ok the closure plan is looking ahead a few years but I think essentially Sainsburys will destroy Argos, they think they are going to compete with Amazon but in the end they wont.

I would think that in the end that Sainsburys home delivery will need to move to a Dark Hub model as well so why not do it now, although they can probably use the Argos Dark Hubs when they kill Argos off in about 5 years time.

I went past a stand alone Argos a few weeks ago and it was collections only with a table across the doorway and outside queuing behind barriers on the pavement. The Argos in my local Sainsbury's has had the ordering terminals displaying a caption 'This screen is poorly' for months.

Well the stand alone store can only open for click and collect at the doorway under current covid rules so what do you expect?

 

[RuralRambler]

Im not sure why that’s so strange to be honest.

Argos have a much bigger range, higher average item value, higher average item cube, none of it short life, so stockholding and the amount of cash tied up in stock is a massive issue for them. Concentrating stock in a smaller number of locations means they can - as perverse as it may sound - offer better availability and reduced stockholding. There are also the obvious savings from closed stores. From a customer perspective, people don’t browse products in Argos, to all intents and purposes it’s a pseudo-Amazon so “dark” stores and click and collect / home delivery is logical, and Sainsbury’s stores with space carved out for an Argos c&c is perfect.

Trouble is that Argos will lose the "I want it now" customer, i.e. the walk-ins who don't want to wait, even a day, and those who aren't sat at home all day waiting for deliveries. Argos has always been more convenient for workers who can nip in during their lunch-hour or commute and who don't want to play the "while you were out card" game of synchronising a delivery for when they're home. It was always the Argos USP against Amazon but now they've given that up with fewer and less accessible stores, and smaller in-store product range.

I used to buy a lot of things from our town centre Argos store, but since it closed and they put a counter into the out of town Sainsbury, I don't think I've been in at all this past year for anything. My "go to" is now Amazon, so much so, I don't even remember to compare prices etc on the Argos website.

 

[route101]

Speaking of Sainsburys our local town centre one closed, there is still a massive one on the outskirts, most of the shops now on outskirts and harder to get to without car. I have noticed Sainsburys have hardly been advertising for staff yet Morrisons have all the time. Though Morrisons laid off temps at Xmas.

Some of the Big Tesco's now have a dedicated Bulk buy section.

 

[superjohn]

For Sainsbury’s it’s the other way round. They have the store estate, they have the supply chain infrastructure, and can sweat the asset a bit more by picking home delivery orders from the main store. They can also use cross-trained staff to work both conventional shelf filling and delivery picking. It also helps massively in reducing markdown and waste on fresh, which costs millions each week across the estate.

I worked in stock control at the online centre and it was certainly challenging. Being online only, we had no ‘reduced to clear‘ option on short life stock. The volume of such stock we would generate was underestimated at the start. We ended up shipping higher value stuff (meat, fish, ready meals) to nearby stores for them to knock out at reduced prices. Lower value stuff (produce, bread) was donated to foodbank charities. Either way, the waste cost was substantial.

The other big problem was what we called the ‘cash and carry effect’. Due to our customer base being mostly businesses, random lines would get hammered with unpredictable bulk orders. Many bars, restaurants and hotels etc found regular deliveries from us were preferable to using conventional wholesalers and their orders varied wildly from day to day. The stock control department ended up with a dedicated van and driver to ship the excess fresh stock out to other stores and pick up stock of lines that had been wiped out by unexpected bulk orders.

Tesco have some highly automated online centres. They still have human pickers but they simply sit at picking stations surrounded by delivery crates. Cases of stock come to them on conveyor belts and they take what is required for each order. This eliminates the travelling between products that can be an efficiency killer when picking in any setting. This is why I was surprised at the choices made by Sainsbury’s for their own OFC.

 

[DB]

Does this maybe explain why so many discount bookshops quickly end up floor-to-ceiling with remaindered (speculatively printed) "bestseller" titles? (More than likely these will be some ghost written (minor) "celebrity" autobiographies published in time for the Christmas market)

There are some categories of books which seem to be published solely for vast numbers of them to be sold off at substantial discount in The Works and similar - e.g. biographies of "celebrities", self-help books, diet books, etc - either the publishers vastly overestimate the potential to sell them at normal price (unlikely) or this is part of the business plan.

 

[37424]

Speaking of Sainsburys our local town centre one closed, there is still a massive one on the outskirts, most of the shops now on outskirts and harder to get to without car. I have noticed Sainsburys have hardly been advertising for staff yet Morrisons have all the time. Though Morrisons laid off temps at Xmas.

Some of the Big Tesco's now have a dedicated Bulk buy section.

To be fair some staff have redeployed to Sainsburys from closed Argos stores, and that is the plan for future closures so the opportunity for new staff maybe reduced, of course some Argos staff may not want to go to Sainsburys anyway.

 

[route101]

To be fair some staff have redeployed to Sainsburys from closed Argos stores, and that is the plan for future closures so the opportunity for new staff maybe reduced, of course some Argos staff may not want to go to Sainsburys anyway.

I noticed a Argos member of staff stacking the shelves in Sainsburys so getting use out of them.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 18 Mar 2021 ==

 

[johntea]

More John Lewis store closures...

Aberdeen
Ashford (At Home)
Basingstoke (At Home)
Chester (At Home)
Peterborough
Sheffield
Tunbridge Wells (At Home)
York

Makes you wonder if they'll eventually have to go the same way as Sainsburys / Argos and just offer some sort of John Lewis click and collect service in the Waitrose stores (I believe they already do to an extent)

 

[richw]

I have noticed Sainsburys have hardly been advertising for staff yet Morrisons have all the time.

Sainsbury’s have a huge redundancy process going on and a internal recruitment ban unless essential as a result. A friend has been employed by Sainsbury’s recently and was told his contract is temporary but will have option to go permanent if the role isn’t filled by a redundancy from another department

 

[peters]

Makes you wonder if they'll eventually have to go the same way as Sainsburys / Argos and just offer some sort of John Lewis click and collect service in the Waitrose stores (I believe they already do to an extent)

John Lewis do have a collection in Waitrose option but surprisingly selecting that option doesn't mean they can't disappear between being dispatched and arriving in store. They also have a collection arrangement with Booths supermarkets, who have quite a big presence in Lancashire and Cumbria where Waitrose don't have much of a presence. As Booths and Waitrose are similar with the exception of Booths tending to focus on northern produce, perhaps it was mutually beneficial i.e. Booths help John Lewis in exchange for Waitrose not invading their territory.

 

[GusB]

More John Lewis store closures...

Aberdeen
Ashford (At Home)
Basingstoke (At Home)
Chester (At Home)
Peterborough
Sheffield
Tunbridge Wells (At Home)
York

Makes you wonder if they'll eventually have to go the same way as Sainsburys / Argos and just offer some sort of John Lewis click and collect service in the Waitrose stores (I believe they already do to an extent)

A friend of mine tweeted this morning that he'd heard rumours about the Aberdeen store closing. It's an awfully big building to fill (some may argue it's an awful building!) and it would see the disappearance of what I believe is the only department store left in the city.

 

[D6130]

Eurostar.....unfortunately. However, I sincerely hope that another organisation (possibly a joint Anglo-French OLR?) will be able to take over the trains, stations and staff and run an international service via the Channel Tunnel post-Covid.

 

[SuspectUsual]

As Booths and Waitrose are similar with the exception of Booths tending to focus on northern produce, perhaps it was mutually beneficial i.e. Booths help John Lewis in exchange for Waitrose not invading their territory.

I hope not, because that’s illegal

 

[peters]

I hope not, because that’s illegal

I perhaps worded that badly but hypothetically say the options for John Lewis/Waitrose were:
Option A - Open a small number of Waitrose stores in Lancashire/Cumbria, which could offer click & collect for John Lewis
Option B - Find an existing retailer in Lancashire/Cumbria which could offer click & collect for John Lewis, which potentially offers more John Lewis Click & Collect locations than A but doesn't expand Waitrose's presence
Option C - Combine the two but only use another retailer for Click & Collect in towns where there is no Waitrose presence.

Surely Booths are legally allowed to say we can come to an arrangement but you have to offer Click & Collect all our stores as Click & Collect options, we're not letting you use our stores for Click & Collect in towns where you don't have a presence and not for towns where you do have a presence. That may then mean for the relationship to work for both parties B is the only option. Booths potentially get the advantage of John Lewis customers shopping in their stores, when they might otherwise shop elsewhere, while John Lewis get the advantage of being able to do Click & Collect in Lancashire and Cumbria, which simplifies deliveries.

Eurostar.....unfortunately. However, I sincerely hope that another organisation (possibly a joint Anglo-French OLR?) will be able to take over the trains, stations and staff and run an international service via the Channel Tunnel post-Covid.

Despite the barriers created by Brexit I very much doubt we'll end up with a Channel Tunnel with no passenger trains running through it. Who runs the trains long term might be a different question.

 

[route101]

Sainsbury’s have a huge redundancy process going on and a internal recruitment ban unless essential as a result. A friend has been employed by Sainsbury’s recently and was told his contract is temporary but will have option to go permanent if the role isn’t filled by a redundancy from another department

One of the Sainsburys near me closed. Not all of the staff were able to transfer to other stores I heard. Morrisons let go of there Xmas Temps and recently hired temps, surprised there wasn't a greater fuss.

 

[Red Onion]

A friend of mine tweeted this morning that he'd heard rumours about the Aberdeen store closing. It's an awfully big building to fill (some may argue it's an awful building!) and it would see the disappearance of what I believe is the only department store left in the city.

It is a huge building and I really can’t see what will go in. It’s a huge blow to the Bon Accord centre who’ve lost a fair few stores of late. I wonder if the click and collect unit will remain or if it too will go. It’s a shame, I used it a fair few times for stuff.

I don’t think the building is listed and I can see it going for demolition and potential conversion to student flats.

 

[Kite159]

Bad news for any staff who will loss their jobs.

 

[Butts]

A friend of mine tweeted this morning that he'd heard rumours about the Aberdeen store closing. It's an awfully big building to fill (some may argue it's an awful building!) and it would see the disappearance of what I believe is the only department store left in the city.

Nowhere is safe now !!!

That was demonstrated when they closed a newish Birmingham Store much to the chagrin of Andy Street (The former boss of JL) and now Mayor of The West Midlands a few years ago before any pandemic.