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Thorntons was a mid range store and these tend to be the ones suffering.
Its the lower end (primark, savers, b&m) or the higher end (hilfilger) that are doing best in the high street.
One of those brands where the price went up while the quality went down. Sad to see them go, but Hotel Chocolat (their main rival) produce stuff that's more affordable, a greater variety and better quality.
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Not totally convinced that Hotel Chocolat is better quality or cheaper but anyway, I think there were a number of issues for Thornton's, Including more competition from the likes of Hotel Chocolat, the Internet, the likes of M&S producing similar stuff, and the supermarkets selling various chocolate including Thornton's own. Time was of course if you wanted Thornton's Chocolate you had to go to a Thornton's shop and there weren't a great deal of alternatives in your average UK town.
A quarter of Thornton’s special toffee was a highlight of my childhood - my grandad finished work early on Fridays and used to be at my mum’s when I got home from school. There was always either a bag of toffee, a chocolate bar or (for reasons nobody ever understood) Munchies.
Not totally convinced that Hotel Chocolat is better quality or cheaper but anyway, I think there were a number of issues for Thornton's, Including more competition from the likes of Hotel Chocolat, the Internet, the likes of M&S producing similar stuff, and the supermarkets selling various chocolate including Thornton's own. Time was of course if you wanted Thornton's Chocolate you had to go to a Thornton's shop and there weren't a great deal of alternatives in your average UK town.
Yes, my point is that there is nothing to distinguish them from any of the other choice and toffees sold at the supermarket.
Won't be long till Ferrero shut the Alfreton factory as the business will dwindle.
They should get their products into WH Smith stores. A win-win for both Thorntons and WHS. WHS have plenty of shelf space and an exclusive deal for the full product range would drive customers into WHS.
They should get their products into WH Smith stores. A win-win for both Thorntons and WHS. WHS have plenty of shelf space and an exclusive deal for the full product range would drive customers into WHS.
I believe they already sell their products in WHSMith. There are also (according to BBC News this morning) around 100 franchised outlets which are not affected. One of the owners of such an outlet was interviewed and said that he is often charged more buying wholesale from Thornton than he has seen for sale to the end customer in supermarkets and shops like Wilkinson.
One of the owners of such an outlet was interviewed and said that he is often charged more buying wholesale from Thornton than he has seen for sale to the end customer in supermarkets and shops like Wilkinson.
Indeed - it’s not just the buying power and economies that supermarkets have also - some products may even be sold as a loss leader to get customers through the door. I remember seeing in Asda’s the year before last a family with three big trolleys just full of plastic tubs of “Celebration” chocolates - nothing else.
We used to have a family convenience store. It was my "Saturday morning" job to go into town and get a couple of trolleys from Kwik Save. I now run a small accountancy practice and virtually all of my clients running small shops, guest houses, B&Bs, takeaways etc., regularly go to Tesco, Morrisons and Asda to buy pretty substantial proportions of their supplies. Our town's wholesaler is a Booker Cash & Carry and most things there are more expensive than the supermarkets - most of my clients only buy catering-size packs or things that can't be sold from supermarket multipacks (i.e. crisps which are different bag size or canned drinks which often have "multipack not to be sold separately" written on them. My biggest client is a village convenience stores and he goes to Tesco or Morrison every 2 or 3 days and spends a few hundred pounds a time, mostly on BOGOFs and "3 for 2" offers etc - but due to covid those offers aren't common at the moment. It's a travesty that small businesses can't buy cheaper than supermarkets sell for - just shows how distorted the market has become. Wholesalers actually make a higher gross profit than retailers which is illogical as wholesalers sell higher volumes so their margins should be less. Where I used to work, we had a wholesaler whose average gross profit was 24-26%, but shops, such as convenience stores are often working on gross profits of only 17-20%.
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Indeed - it’s not just the buying power and economies that supermarkets have also - some products may even be sold as a loss leader to get customers through the door. I remember seeing in Asda’s the year before last a family with three big trolleys just full of plastic tubs of “Celebration” chocolates - nothing else.
It's more that the suppliers subsidise the supermarkets to stock and promote their products. There are two main ways in which that happens. Firstly, "retro discounts" where the supplier pays a retrospective discount back to the supermarket if certain levels of sales are made and secondly by supermarkets charging suppliers for promotional space etc., i.e. the supplier effectively "rents" the aisle ends or "eye-line" prime shelf space or extra widths of their products on the shelf.
Supermarkets got off Scot free in the monopolies investigation because they had supplier invoices showing that, say, a tin of beans cost them 20p and they sold it for 25p, so a gross profit of 5p, or 20% which was reasonable and normal. But what didn't get put into the investigation was that the supplier may well have given a further 5p per tin as "retro discount" for selling x number of thousand tins of their beans that week. In reality, that pushes the gross profit to a whopping 10p or 40%, but the accounts don't show it as the retro discounts are shown separately. Same with advertising/promotional contributions - they don't appear in the gross profit calculations either.
You may think that when a supermarket sells a multipack of crisps for £1 compared to the usual £1.70, that it's the supermarket who stands the 70p loss. It isn't. It's the supplier. The supermarket still makes the same profit as if they were sold at £1.70, the difference is absorbed/paid by the supplier. I see that a lot as my convenience store client is part of one of the chains - I know when they're selling a certain brand of soft drinks, or crisp multipacks or whatever on promotion - I see the "credits notes" appear on their weekly supplier statements to pay them the sales values they lost due to the promotions (it's all done via their electronic tills). The shop's gross profit isn't affected at all - they make the same when the 12 pack of Cola is one offer as when it's not!
You may think that when a supermarket sells a multipack of crisps for £1 compared to the usual £1.70, that it's the supermarket who stands the 70p loss. It isn't. It's the supplier. The supermarket still makes the same profit as if they were sold at £1.70, the difference is absorbed/paid by the supplier.
That’s just factually incorrect. Yes, there is promotional support from suppliers, and it can take the form of either a reduced cost price during a “promotional buy-in” period and/or volume based retros, but in 99% of cases the retailer’s margin is reduced.
Indeed - it’s not just the buying power and economies that supermarkets have also - some products may even be sold as a loss leader to get customers through the door. I remember seeing in Asda’s the year before last a family with three big trolleys just full of plastic tubs of “Celebration” chocolates - nothing else.
A former employer of mine used to go to Tesco and buy every member of staff a tub of chocolates at Christmas, an Easter egg at Easter, and boxes of chocolates for other special events through the year. There was 250 people in my office!
Independent bookshops like my own, even pre-internet, saw WHSmith and supermarkets selling a small selection of books (but all 'bestsellers') at a lower price than we could buy wholesale. Thornton's rum truffles were a Christmas present from my mother-in-law for over thirty years before she died, but the quality declined substantially over that time. Now when I see Thornton's chocolates in the supermarket, I just think 'low quality chocolate at medium price points' would only be tempted by a 'clearance' type price, like after Christmas and Easter, and certainly wouldn't bulk buy.
WH Smith and the major supermarkets only selling "bestsellers" (such as books + CDs) has always puzzled me.
How do such items get to become "top 50" bestsellers in the first place if you can't buy them from the likes of Tesco/Sainsbury before they've made the top 50?
WH Smith and the major supermarkets only selling "bestsellers" (such as books + CDs) has always puzzled me.
How do such items get to become "top 50" bestsellers in the first place if you can't buy them from the likes of Tesco/Sainsbury before they've made the top 50?
Speaking from my own experience of WHS and Waterstones - alot of the top 50 books seemed to be based on marketing and commercial research.
For example, on Sunday (14th) ITV screened the first of two feature length Roy Grace dramas starring John Simm. Author Peter James has been writing the Grace stories since 2005 and one is never far from a store's book display.
I would lay odds, that the Roy Grace books are rebranded and added to chart displays (again) in the coming weeks to reflect the media interest in the programme.
Same for example if Piers Morgan publishes anything soon in light of his departure from GMB over his Meghan Markle remarks - again it will be displayed on the top 50 lists.
I don't necessarily think it has anything to do with XX copies being sold but I could of course be wrong.
Remember that the definition of “bestselling” is sales from the publisher to the retailer, not the retailer to the customer. So to some degree it’s a bit of a self fulfilling prophesy, at least at first. Obviously continued best seller status becomes dependent on reorders, ie the initial order actually selling
Remember that the definition of “bestselling” is sales from the publisher to the retailer, not the retailer to the customer. So to some degree it’s a bit of a self fulfilling prophesy, at least at first. Obviously continued best seller status becomes dependent on reorders, ie the initial order actually selling
Quite! How can the first edition of a book be supplied to me as a bookseller around publication date with a cover PRINTED to include the claim that this is a 'no. 1 bestseller' or similar bull, when you know that production of the book will almost always have been completed at least three weeks earlier? It's a variation on things (not just books) being 'award winning'. So long as you're not claiming a SPECIFIC award like the Booker or Oscar or whatever, you can get away with murder. A more modern phenomenon is to say a book was on the list for the Booker award, which, in the case of the longlist, means absolutely b all!
Does this maybe explain why so many discount bookshops quickly end up floor-to-ceiling with remaindered (speculatively printed) "bestseller" titles? (More than likely these will be some ghost written (minor) "celebrity" autobiographies published in time for the Christmas market)
It's a variation on things (not just books) being 'award winning'. So long as you're not claiming a SPECIFIC award like the Booker or Oscar or whatever, you can get away with murder.
It can even include a specific award if the awarding body is a vehicle set up by the producer of the award winning product purely for the purpose of giving their product a fancy sounding but worthless award. Computer software springs to mind but I haven't any examples to hand to reference.
I can't say I'm sad to see the back of Thorntons shops. I was never particularly impressed by them, and my local Thorntons cafe had THE worst staff. I don't mind the chocolate but it's more something I'd pick up at the supermarket. Hotel Chocolat on the other hand; overpriced but I've always seen them as a more premium offering.
As for Debenhams, it's a real shame, but the high street is changing and it seems department stores are no longer en vogue. My only worry is what will happen to town centres - what kind of redevelopment will happen. It would be sad to lose the town centre entirely but I can see that some serious redevelopment will need to happen.
I stopped WHSmiths as they were just so expensive for the things I was wanting, but I've noticed they've become more competitive in some areas. Just not in the area of food and drink at airports, train and bus stations!
It can even include a specific award if the awarding body is a vehicle set up by the producer of the award winning product purely for the purpose of giving their product a fancy sounding but worthless award. Computer software springs to mind but I haven't any examples to hand to reference.
Yes there is a whole industry of spurious awards, companies pay to attend, and the bosses get to dress up and have some nice dinners and sooner or later the companies will win something. Whether this returns after covid is a question of course.
Just prior to Christmas, doing my shopping, I witnessed an obvious small trader newsagent or similar stocking up at the supermarket. Three trollies full of booze, all on special offer, plus a staff discount card was used of 20% in said supermarket.
I previously used to buy stock for a small social club. My strategy was to go to Costco first, since they offered the cheapest prices, followed by Bookers who had better range and availability, but higher price.
I said in an earlier post that the main post office in my local town was at the back of a soft furnishings shop. Last week walking through the town centre I saw that the post office was still open but at the back of an empty shop with a large sign in the window 'Retail opportunity available'.
Just prior to Christmas, doing my shopping, I witnessed an obvious small trader newsagent or similar stocking up at the supermarket. Three trollies full of booze, all on special offer, plus a staff discount card was used of 20% in said supermarket.
I previously used to buy stock for a small social club. My strategy was to go to Costco first, since they offered the cheapest prices, followed by Bookers who had better range and availability, but higher price.
One has to admit the retail landscape is going to look pretty grim post covid. My own Company Argos/Sainsburys still has loads of shops to shut over the next 2 years and some of these will be big shops on Retail Parks. My own local area Barclays has shut all the branches in the smaller towns during covid, HSBC now intend to do likewise, then we have seen all the closures announced of other chain's like Thorntons, Debenhams, John Lewis, etc etc, independents that go without mention, there going to be one hell of a lot of empty retail units that's for sure, especially when you consider many towns had many empty retail units even before covid.
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