How could the Mid-Cheshire Line be improved?

[Isaiah]

My local line is the Mid-Cheshire line. Local station is Hale.

Anyway, I have to say that the management of the Mid-Cheshire line at the moment is an absolute disgrace. Before 18 Jan, services were one train every hour (each way) which is bad enough, but now services run one train every TWO hours. Is this a joke?

If you miss a train by a minute, you have to wait another two hours for the next one. Frankly I find it ridiculous.

The track is also not brilliant and the top speed is quite low. In my view, an overhaul of the management is not only desirable, but completely necessary

What do you all think? Opinions from those who are also Mid-Cheshire Line people would especially be welcomed

 

[zwk500]

What do you mean by 'an overhaul of the management'?

The track is the responsibility of Network Rail, the service level provision is the responsibility of the TOC (Northern?), an entirely separate company. Services are being cut back everywhere because of low passenger numbers due to COVID, and the departure time is published in advance, it would be unfair to people further up or down the line to hold the train because people are late and cause delays in Manchester.

I don't know the line, but is a linespeed improvement going to help? Are stations far enough apart that trains will make use of a greater top speed, and can the curvature of the line support it?

 

[Gloster]

I presume you just missed a train this afternoon.

 

[Gathursty]

The Mid-Cheshire line will remain a trundling backwater branch now it has to dog leg to Stockport. It is not a priority anymore.

 

[py_megapixel]

Train operating companies have been experiencing serious staff shortages due to self-isolation and sometimes the inability to perform crew training.
Budgets are probably more stretched than they've ever been before because nobody's buying tickets.
As a result, frequencies are down almost everywhere.

Also there is no "management of the Mid-Cheshire Line". It's a decision by Northern central management. And the service cuts had to be somewhere.
Mid-Cheshire isn't even the worst affected. Styal station has lost its service entirely, as did Rose Hill for a few months last year.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

The line has always had an hourly stopper, until recently mostly using Pacers.
The Northern franchise should have delivered a second hourly train Greenbank-Manchester, either as a limited stop or allowing the hourly Chester to become limited stop.
With Northern's problems that never happened, and with Covid the service is now further reduced (as on most lines).
The overall line is slow with multiple infrastructure issues, and has 3 single track sections so is susceptible to disruption.
Things might change if the "Castlefield" solution involves diverting TfW's North Wales-Manchester service via Northwich (Option C).
But that's at least 2 years away and the consultation has only just started.
Meanwhile Northern has got rid of the Pacers so the worst you'll get is a 150, and maybe a new 195, possibly even double units.
It's no worse off than many local lines in the North West, but of course things could be improved.
The body most responsible for management is Transport for the North (TfN) which decides service levels and priorities for investment.
Trafford and Cheshire East/West councils all have representation on this body.
Andy Burnham is usually a loud spokesman for rail issues in the NW, and has a lot of influence on what happens.

 

[LOL The Irony]

and maybe a new 195

A 195? You sure?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

A 195? You sure?

No I'm not, but they are all in service now and one would hope they got on the CLC to Chester from time to time!
The service is linked at Chester with Northern's Chester-Victoria-Leeds service which is I believe all-195s.
Is there anything preventing 195s running via Northwich?

 

[zwk500]

Is there anything preventing 195s running via Northwich?

They're prohibited between Hale and Mickle Trafford

 

[sjm77]

They're prohibited between Hale and Mickle Trafford

Is this because of gauge limitations at certain locations? Or simply because the paperwork has not yet been lodged to gain approval?

 

[daodao]

If the service is running reliably in a timely manner according to the published schedule, the management is hardly a disgrace. As so few people are travelling by public transport at present, running more frequent services would be pouring money down the drain.

I hope that on May 17th when the lockdown effectively ends, and which coincides with the usual late spring timetable change, an hourly daytime service will be restored Mon-Fri, with at least a 2 hourly service at other times [obviously excluding overnight].

There is probably no need to resuscitate the peak extras that terminate at Stockport, which are presumably wasteful of rolling stock. My last experience of attempting to use the 1718 from Stockport ended in me waiting another 34 minutes and claiming Delay Repay because of the cancellation.

 

[richw]

So the issue here is an advertised train ran on time and a passenger missed it by not being at a station on time. This isn’t a train management issue but a passengers time management issue. The frequency is as required based on covid passenger levels

 

[zwk500]

Is this because of gauge limitations at certain locations? Or simply because the paperwork has not yet been lodged to gain approval?

I don't know, I'm afraid. I'm not familiar enough with the service pattern to be able to take a guess

 

[LOL The Irony]

No I'm not, but they are all in service now and one would hope they got on the CLC to Chester from time to time!

A test run to Chester & back was done last Autumn but I haven't heard anything since.

They're prohibited between Hale and Mickle Trafford

So I'm guessing this was established during the test run?

Is this because of gauge limitations at certain locations? Or simply because the paperwork has not yet been lodged to gain approval?

They had issues with tight turns which was supposedly fixed before launch, so it may be that rearing its head again. Considering it's the alternate route to Chester from Manchester, they'd probably want all their trains to be able to use it. But I'll stop all in depth talk about 195's as an already existing or new thread would better cover this issue.

 

[zwk500]

A test run to Chester & back was done last Autumn but I haven't heard anything since.

So I'm guessing this was established during the test run?

They had issues with tight turns which was supposedly fixed before launch, so it may be that rearing its head again. Considering it's the alternate route to Chester from Manchester, they'd probably want all their trains to be able to use it.

They're clear via Warrington BQ so I guess it isn't a priority.

But I'll stop all in depth talk about 195's as an already existing or new thread would better cover this issue.

Agreed.

The other thing to bear in mind about the Mid-Cheshire line is that it's a useful route for freight to avoid the busier bits of the WCML and Crewe-Manchester lines. Ramp up the passenger service and you'd restrict that traffic.

 

[Metrolink]

Styal station has lost its service entirely

I don’t understand, this line is vital to get from Shrewsbury, Crewe, Wilmslow etc to Mcr Airport without a 30 minute detour. Styal isn’t used too much but the line being completedly dropped of a passenger service? Am I missing something here?

 

[Ianno87]

I don’t understand, this line is vital to get from Shrewsbury, Crewe, Wilmslow etc to Mcr Airport without a 30 minute detour. Styal isn’t used too much but the line being completedly dropped of a passenger service? Am I missing something here?

The fact that demand for air travel has basically collapsed entirely?

 

[Isaiah]

What do you mean by 'an overhaul of the management'?

That they begin to run that line a bit better

The track is the responsibility of Network Rail, the service level provision is the responsibility of the TOC (Northern?), an entirely separate company.

I am aware

Services are being cut back everywhere because of low passenger numbers due to COVID

I know, however the 1 hour wait between trains pre-covid is just as bad

 

[Bald Rick]

But that's at least 2 years away and the consultation has only just started.

May next year, if you believe the consultation (and there’s no reason not to).

I hope that on May 17th when the lockdown effectively ends, and which coincides with the usual late spring timetable change, an hourly daytime service will be restored Mon-Fri

The trains are all still in the timetable, but cancelled off until the end of March. They will be back whenever it is deemed necessary to restore services as lockdown is eased off. That could be as soon as April, I guess.

 

[Isaiah]

I presume you just missed a train this afternoon.

No, haha, I am actually very punctual. I know what time they come so I am always there on time. However I just find the wait between trains to be irritating, as it limits my flexibility during the day - I have to be at each station at very specific times, and if I am not, I have to wait for two hours (one hour pre-covid)

 

[Metrolink]

The fact that demand for air travel has basically collapsed entirely?

Yes, but Manchester Airport is not solely for the purpose of flights. It serves Wythenshawe, Altrincham and the surrounding areas from the south.

 

[Ianno87]

Yes, but Manchester Airport is not solely for the purpose of flights. It serves Wythenshawe, Altrincham and the surrounding areas from the south.

Even pre-Covid, trains ran Airport-Wilmslow very lightly loaded. I'm guessing that with Lockdowns they are basically carrying nobody.

 

[yorksrob]

It could do with being half hourly IMO.

Even if one of them only goes as far as Stockport for onward connections.

 

[zwk500]

That they begin to run that line a bit better

I am aware

Who does what, and to what level? Better stations, faster linespeed, newer trains, more frequent service? If you actually say what you'd like, people could engage in constructive discussion.

I know, however the 1 hour wait between trains pre-covid is just as bad

1tph is a fairly standard service, there's plenty of mid-sized towns who don't have anything like that to a major city like Manchester. How frequent should it be: every 30, 20 mins? are there enough people wanting to travel at these different times to make the service worthwhile?

 

[py_megapixel]

I don’t understand, this line is vital to get from Shrewsbury, Crewe, Wilmslow etc to Mcr Airport without a 30 minute detour. Styal isn’t used too much but the line being completedly dropped of a passenger service? Am I missing something here?

Styal station. The line is still open (but only for freight on the Airport-Wilmslow section at the moment)

 

[Isaiah]

It could do with being half hourly IMO.

Even if one of them only goes as far as Stockport for onward connections.

Amen mate

 

[LOL The Irony]

Yes, but Manchester Airport is not solely for the purpose of flights. It serves... Altrincham

I'd argue Hale, Altrincham & Navigation Road do a better job of serving Altrincham than the airport does. Hell, I'd go as far as to say Knutsford & Stockport do a better job than the airport in transportation terms.

 

[Isaiah]

Who does what, and to what level? Better stations, faster linespeed, newer trains, more frequent service? If you actually say what you'd like, people could engage in constructive discussion.

1tph is a fairly standard service, there's plenty of mid-sized towns who don't have anything like that to a major city like Manchester. How frequent should it be: every 30, 20 mins? are there enough people wanting to travel at these different times to make the service worthwhile?

At least every 30 minutes, although every 20 certainly wouldn't be a bad thing

In fact, I think they should have a different service beginning at Manchester Airport, coming onto the Mid-Cheshire Line near Gatley and continuing to perhaps Crewe or Warrington Bank Quay

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 24 Feb 2021 ==

I'd argue Hale, Altrincham & Navigation Road do a better job of serving Altrincham than the airport does. Hell, I'd go as far as to say Knutsford & Stockport do better job than the airport in transportation terms.

On the rare one occasion where I missed my train from Picc to Hale, I had to get the train to the Airport instead

 

[HST43257]

The Mid Cheshire Line can have a second tph from Manchester to Northwich, with that going to Crewe (as suggested many times before).

We can ignore the North Wales to Manchester. A 2tph Leeds to Llandudno (extension and doubling of Leeds to Chester) covers that.

I’m not fussed about the Piccadilly connection, even though the locals on that route may feel differently. Manchester is Manchester to me. Victoria or Piccadilly or Oxford Road? Don’t honestly care that much. Manchester has the most extensive tram network in the country.

 

[py_megapixel]

It could do with being half hourly IMO.

Even if one of them only goes as far as Stockport for onward connections.

At least every 30 minutes, although every 20 certainly wouldn't be a bad thing

In fact, I think they should have a different service beginning at Manchester Airport, coming onto the Mid-Cheshire Line near Gatley and continuing to perhaps Crewe or Warrington Bank Quay

That was the original plan. Unfortunately it's been indefinitely prolonged because of the various issues at Northern and I'd be surprised if Covid hasn't finished the entire idea off

I'd say there's a reasonable chance of you getting your hourly service back, but a near-zero chance of the proposed frequency doubling this side of HS2 opening. There are some much busier lines than yourss which don't have a 20 minute service yet so I'm almost certain that won't happen in the forseeable future, and if I was in charge of the planning I'd certainly be prioritising a recast to give Heaton Chapel & Levenshulme a proper clockface service over sending an extra train down the Mid Cheshire.