Companies That You Expect to Disappear Soon

[FQTV]

Generally-speaking, retail analysts maintain their positive outlook for WHSmith, anticipating early and strong rebounds in their newly expanded US businesses, and an anticipation that the core of their travel business more widely will improve fairly rapidly given that it's heavily-skewed towards leisure passengers.

Changes to the high street estate, which are constant and ongoing, are likely to be particularly affected by a large-scale programme of rent renegotiations and renewals.

As I think that I've mentioned here before, one of the strengths of WHSmith in recent years has been its absolute ruthlessness with cost control. As an example, staff numbers per sqft of retail space are almost unbelievably low, and therefore so is the staffing overhead. It's also a product-led business, with an undercurrent of essential/useful/convenience drivers, rather than a business driven by its own brand and purely discretionary and/or destination purchasing.

So notwithstanding other externalities, as long as their costs are lower than their revenues and liabilities, then they're likely to be fine - even if the carpet is unfashionable or the shelves are scratched in their East Lower Randomplace branch, or even if they're paying prime, prime rents and laying Amtico by the acre in their West Upper Someplace branch. The basic necessity is to constantly keep tight control across the board.

 

[Peter Sarf]

I can see reasons why WH Smith can survive. I seldom go in nowadays and I was puzzling why. Some of it is I have realised how expensive they are. I do think they still have essential products that will sell. But I wonder if there enough essential business left to support the rest of the floor space ?.

I think Woolworths suffered that way with more space than they needed (i.e. could pay for) and they seemed to end up as a very large sweet shop. I had stopped going into Woolworths years before they imploded. I reckon I go into Wilko more often nowadays (before Covid-19) than I used to go into Woolworths. That is even though there is, strangely, not a branch of Wilko in Croydon.

 

[Bald Rick]

As I said on this very thread a mere 2,557 posts ago, WHS will be fine. Yes there will be closures on their high street estate - but that’s not where they make their money. They make their money selling bottles of water for £2 Etc at airports, stations and service stations and there’s loads of people happy to do that.

I also said in the same post that Debenhams was ‘dead in the water’, an opinion which was widely contested at the time.

 

[Peter Sarf]

As I said on this very thread a mere 2,557 posts ago, WHS will be fine. Yes there will be closures on their high street estate - but that’s not where they make their money. They make their money selling bottles of water for £2 Etc at airports, stations and service stations and there’s loads of people happy to do that.

I also said in the same post that Debenhams was ‘dead in the water’, an opinion which was widely contested at the time.

I recall the Debenhams 'dead in the water' opinion.

What your saying is that, if WHS is sensible, they will cut back on the loss making stores / floor area ?. I suppose they could be majoring on the refreshments side of things.

 

[C J Snarzell]

I recall the Debenhams 'dead in the water' opinion.

What your saying is that, if WHS is sensible, they will cut back on the loss making stores / floor area ?. I suppose they could be majoring on the refreshments side of things.

I can see WHS turning into say a 'Martin the Newsagent' - streamlined small outlets that you will find in train stations and airports. I think their days as a large town centre store are over.

CJ

 

[Peter Sarf]

I can see WHS turning into say a 'Martin the Newsagent' - streamlined small outlets that you will find in train stations and airports. I think their days as a large town centre store are over.

CJ

What I fear is the demise of the stationery, maps and books. WH Smith will be just a sweet shop and currently I find the odd chocolate bar or drink I want cheaper elsewhere. The newsagent part depends on how much the internet takes over as a source of news.

On the subject of newsagents. I used to get my Modern Railways from a newsagents back in the 1970s but they messed it up a few times - delivering Model Railways iirc instead (another Ian Allen publication). So I get Modern Railways by post direct from the publishers instead.

On the subject of internet I have less and less time to read Modern Railways. Maybe this forum is pulling me in !. I keep reminding myself that the articles in Modern Railways are edited and concise. No time spent wading through many posts that don't fit into a complete picture. You have to read a thread from the start which can be impossible if you are not in at the beginning of what becomes a long thread. However this forum, for example, does provide a way of asking questions and getting answers. Plus it is more up to date. So maybe Modern Railways is an endangered species ?.

 

[Mills444]

On the subject of internet I have less and less time to read Modern Railways. Maybe this forum is pulling me in !. I keep reminding myself that the articles in Modern Railways are edited and concise. No time spent wading through many posts that don't fit into a complete picture. You have to read a thread from the start which can be impossible if you are not in at the beginning of what becomes a long thread. However this forum, for example, does provide a way of asking questions and getting answers. Plus it is more up to date. So maybe Modern Railways is an endangered species ?.

I think that is also perspective of the wider magazine market, everything in them if you care about it you will probably know before you buy the magazine with the rise of forums such as this as well as subject-specific websites/ new sites which are both generally free and updated daily or more. Additionally, I think the fact that forms give a place to talk about your hobby with others without having to arrange to meet up in person is certainly an advantage that magazines will never be able to replicate.

 

[Peter Sarf]

I think that is also perspective of the wider magazine market, everything in them if you care about it you will probably know before you buy the magazine with the rise of forums such as this as well as subject-specific websites/ new sites which are both generally free and updated daily or more. Additionally, I think the fact that forms give a place to talk about your hobby with others without having to arrange to meet up in person is certainly an advantage that magazines will never be able to replicate.

I agree. The only thing missing from forums is an edited version of each thread containing the final facts minus all the to-ing and fro-ing of getting there. I always felt the chance to do that was for the first post to be kept up-to-date with the final answers/facts. Not entirely appropriate for many threads of course.

Also a disadvantage of Forums is when they cease. Happened suddenly with a car forum I used to frequent. A lot of useful facts were lost. In the good old days you had the info in your possession, for example stacks of magazines. Another example is music - I prefer to have it in my possession (CDs or Vinyl) rather than just having the right to download it.

 

[jon0844]

As I said on this very thread a mere 2,557 posts ago, WHS will be fine. Yes there will be closures on their high street estate - but that’s not where they make their money. They make their money selling bottles of water for £2 Etc at airports, stations and service stations and there’s loads of people happy to do that.

I also said in the same post that Debenhams was ‘dead in the water’, an opinion which was widely contested at the time.

Absolutely, but with travel having been curtailed so much for so long - it must have hit them hard and the recovery might be quite gradual.

And they're distributing less newspapers and magazines than they did, so while they might survive on the travel locations and distribution, I doubt many high street stores will be sustainable.

When I had to get some double sided sticky tape, WH Smith didn't have any and I had to press a button to ask for assistance (no staff on shop floor anymore) so I just went to Sainsbury's. If you can't even get simple things, and you'd be mad to go there for snacks or drinks, then what is the point of the high street stores?

I accept some are better run than others, and the ones that have been refurbished are better designed, but mine is the same 1980s design and layout and the empty shelving means they're not even stocking the store to the level the area allows for. At best, they could split the store in half and save rent, but the design of the unit in a corner probably makes that impossible. There's no post office, so I suspect it won't last another year. Depends on the lease I suppose.

 

[DavidGrain]

In my local town WHS did not get the Post Office franchise which went to a soft furnishings store. I was waiting in the queue when I heard 'Next Please' called out. I looked around but could not see where to go. The lady behind me directed me to go behind a pile of duvets where I found a third post office counter.

My only visit to the WHS store in many years was two weeks before Christmas to purchase a jiffy bag large enough to take an A4 binder. No a very regular occurence for me.

 

[philjo]

I have been using WHS recently to get one of the magazines that our local Morrisons no longer stocks. Previously I thin I hadn’t used our local branch for 2-3 years. Though with the current one way system in WHS you have to go past all of the books to return down the magazines aisle. So I did also make an unplanned purchase last week of a book that was 75%off !

 

[telstarbox]

Mrs T and I had the challenge of spending £50 in WHS! after a relative gave us a voucher for Christmas. Being fairly "digital" people we struggled a bit (don't need inkjet cartridges or accounts ledgers) but now have enough birthday cards and discounted chocolate for the next year

To be fair to them the book selection is OK especially for school age children. Wilko / Poundland do most of the stationery better or cheaper though.
I'm surprised at the number of Post Offices still around. Our local one is inside the WHS (and seems busy enough) but there are another four within 10-15 mins walk in corner shops. Are they all surviving on the microbusinesses selling stuff on eBay and Etsy?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Feb 2021 ==

Someone will have to decide what kind of town centres we want. Many councils appear to think that a new shopping centre is just what their town needs to help regenerate it, those most familiar to me being Bradford and Rochdale, but there will be others. As a result many shops moved into the new centres, leaving stores elsewhere in the central area empty. There must be a limit to the number of cafes, Building Societies and Estate Agents which a town can absorb. More homes would be part of the solution but then you have to sort residents' parking and planning regulations.

Flats above shops can work in a town centre and don't necessarily need lots of parking if the public transport is good enough - "car free" schemes are increasingly common, especially if there's a car club in the area.

 

[jon0844]

Post Offices are now the only way a lot of people with online-only banks can pay money in, and I don't know if the banks contribute towards the cost of keeping them open?

 

[SuspectUsual]

Post Offices are now the only way a lot of people with online-only banks can pay money in, and I don't know if the banks contribute towards the cost of keeping them open?

I bank with HSBC, who obviously have their own branch network, albeit none within 10 miles of where I live, and to make matters worse even they aren’t open on Saturdays at the moment. But I can pay in cash at the post office, and cheques over the £750 limit for their app. Last time I did this the post office bloke smiled and said “that’s a few pence you’ve contributed to the local economy”

 

[Darandio]

And there are still over half a million people who receive benefits via their post office card account. The contract with the DWP to provide this service does end in November although there have been murmurings there may have to be a short extension given the current situation. It's entirely possible a review will take place regarding certain branches once all of these people have been moved over to bank accounts.

 

[C J Snarzell]

I used to bank with the Yorkshire Bank up until recently - they too will soon disappear from the High Street to become part of the Virgin Money group.

Anyway going back to what I was originally going to say - the Yorkshire and other banks are directing their customers to do their banking at the Post Office.

Most UK banks are closing their smaller suburban outlets and streamlining their businesses. Therefore, the Post Office is a vital necessity for customers paying in cash and cheques which cannot be done online.

CJ

 

[Westcountryman]

The Yorkshire and other banks are directing their customers to do their banking at the Post Office.

Not too bad as long as the smaller Post Offices run the service. We still have a traditional large Post Office, abd in normal times the queues are huge. It seems to be mainly people posting parcels, possibly Ebay sales.

 

[Dai Corner]

Not too bad as long as the smaller Post Offices run the service. We still have a traditional large Post Office, abd in normal times the queues are huge. It seems to be mainly people posting parcels, possibly Ebay sales.

The City Centre Post Office in the medium sized city of Nèwport has gone from the original grand Victorian premises to a 60s building underneath a night club, a unit in a shopping centre and is now at the back of a convenience store. WH Smith didn't get the franchise.

 

[Typhoon]

I used to bank with the Yorkshire Bank up until recently - they too will soon disappear from the High Street to become part of the Virgin Money group.

Anyway going back to what I was originally going to say - the Yorkshire and other banks are directing their customers to do their banking at the Post Office.

Most UK banks are closing their smaller suburban outlets and streamlining their businesses. Therefore, the Post Office is a vital necessity for customers paying in cash and cheques which cannot be done online.

CJ

Clydesdale and Yorkshire Banking Group bought out Virgin Money in 2018 (through a share allocation).

Clydesdale and Yorkshire Bank Group (CYBG) bought Virgin Money last year to create the UK's sixth largest bank.

It plans to change the name to the better-known Virgin Money brand, with its branches due to be renamed by October 2021.

I'm not sure about 'better-known Virgin Money brand', I suspect that means 'better-known Virgin brand(s)'. Bit of an insult really, I would have thought 'Yorkshire Bank' was pretty well known in the north of England and 'Clydesdale Bank' similarly in Scotland. Question: Clydesdale Bank prints banknotes, will the note still have 'Clydesdale Bank' on them when the name disappears on the High Street? I'm not sure that I would accept a banknote labelled 'Virgin Money' (especially if it had been in circulation for a few years) as I associate the brand with Beardy and Northern Rock (and corporate greed).

I understood that most of the branches were going to stay open but rebranded as 'Virgin Money' with most closures only happening because there was another branch nearby. My concern would be that I associate Virgin Money more with being a mortgages, investments and savings bank (although current rates are pretty dire), most of these activities you can't do at the Post Office.

Incidentally, I have no problem with holding savings with the Yorkshire Building Society even though I live in the sayerff. If I take the stereo type of a Yorkshire man and a southerner, I know which one I would rather look after my money!

Quote from: www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/saving/article-7104613/Clydesdale-Yorkshire-Banks-merger-Virgin-money-cuts-savings-safety-net.html

 

[LowLevel]

Thorntons: Chocolate maker to close all shops putting 600 jobs at risk

The chain blames High Street conditions for its decision to shut 61 shops, putting 603 jobs at risk.

www.bbc.co.uk

Chocolate maker Thorntons has said none of its stores will reopen after coronavirus lockdowns are lifted.
The decision to close its 61 shops will put more than 600 jobs at risk.
The company said it had been badly hit by the pandemic, which forced its stores to shut their doors during the crucial Christmas and Easter holidays.
"The obstacles we have faced and will continue to face on the High Street are too severe," said Thorntons retail director Adam Goddard.
"Despite our best efforts we have taken the difficult decision to permanently close our retail store estate."

Thorntons to disappear from the High Street and close all of it's retail outlets.

 

[route101]

Thorntons: Chocolate maker to close all shops putting 600 jobs at risk

The chain blames High Street conditions for its decision to shut 61 shops, putting 603 jobs at risk.

www.bbc.co.uk

Thorntons to disappear from the High Street and close all of it's retail outlets.

Cant remember the last time I went into or bought anything Thornton's. Shame to see a well known brand go.

 

[Iskra]

I can see a few brands choosing to not bother re-opening. Rents and bills will still be through the roof, while footfall will be well down.

 

[3rd rail land]

Cant remember the last time I went into or bought anything Thornton's. Shame to see a well known brand go.

I don't understand how any chocolate shop could survive, even in regular times. I've never seen a busy chocolate shop, even in areas of high footfall. Selling online and via places like supermarkets is definitely the way to go in my opinion.

 

[Mojo]

I don't understand how any chocolate shop could survive, even in regular times. I've never seen a busy chocolate shop, even in areas of high footfall. Selling online and via places like supermarkets is definitely the way to go in my opinion.

I don't even think these expensive chocolates taste very nice. Give me two bars of Dairy Milk for the price of that rubbish Belgian stuff.

 

[Peter C]

I've only ever seen one Thorntons shop, and it never seemed to be particularly full. It was in a shopping centre and really quite a small outlet in comparison to some of the other shops there. Shame to hear that they're closing all their shops, even still.

-Peter

 

[trebor79]

I don't understand how any chocolate shop could survive, even in regular times. I've never seen a busy chocolate shop, even in areas of high footfall. Selling online and via places like supermarkets is definitely the way to go in my opinion.

Hotel Chocolat always seems pretty busy.
The rot at Thorntons set in 20 years ago when they stopped selling loose toffee. The prepacked stuff was never as nice as the loose. Personally, I think they are making a mistake here, there's no end of choccies to buy in the supermarket, and I think they'll struggle. Like of Hotel Chocolat and independants will gain.

 

[richw]

Cant remember the last time I went into or bought anything Thornton's. Shame to see a well known brand go.

I buy their stuff for special but fairly cheap nice presents from a supermarket but never visited either local shop

 

[Jamesrob637]

Thorntons used to do a small gift now and then through O2 Priority.

But the last time I went there and actually paid for something... God only knows.

Still, not good for those who have lost their jobs.

 

[Butts]

There used to be a Thorntons Clearance Shop in Falkirk but it shut up shop (along with most of the rest of the Town) years ago.

Had a few good bargains at the time.

 

[DorkingMain]

Cant remember the last time I went into or bought anything Thornton's. Shame to see a well known brand go.

One of those brands where the price went up while the quality went down. Sad to see them go, but Hotel Chocolat (their main rival) produce stuff that's more affordable, a greater variety and better quality.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 15 Mar 2021 ==

Hotel Chocolat always seems pretty busy.
The rot at Thorntons set in 20 years ago when they stopped selling loose toffee. The prepacked stuff was never as nice as the loose. Personally, I think they are making a mistake here, there's no end of choccies to buy in the supermarket, and I think they'll struggle. Like of Hotel Chocolat and independants will gain.

I believe the plan is only for them to end their dedicated retail outlets. They'll still offer wholesale to supermarkets + online.