Barnstaple route - cutting costs

[HST43257]

Ok so, Covid has created a need to cut down operating costs. Currently, there’s an hourly service, with 3 trains on Barnstaple - St James - Barnstaple diagrams. In my view, the way to make meaningful economic change is to cut that down to 1 unit, however a 1tp3h service is too awkward and probably too much of a cut. Ideally, there’d be a 1tp2h service, but that isn’t possible with the existing line speeds and stops. With a brief look at the area around the Barnstaple route, it seems that the only large location en route is Barnstaple. Other than that, It’s pretty much just Lapford, Copplestone and Crediton. They can all get a few extra car park spaces for the minimal people A service stopping at these 3 places en route to Exeter St Davids (plus the bit to Central/St James) would take pretty much 1 hour on the dot. This ought to be cut down to about 54 or 55 minutes if at all possible. This would be done by increasing line speeds - hopefully that’s possible. A single train can operate this limited stop shuttle and there need be no more than a single track after the line has diverged from the mainline towards Taunton. Any Okehampton trains can take the line while the Barnstaple unit is up north of Yeoford or anywhere else beyond Cowley Bridge Jn (towards Exeter).

Any thoughts?

 

[JamesRowden]

It sounds like DH43257 has never travelled on the route during the peak pre covid. The service has been operated hourly as 3-4 car formations for a reason.

 

[HST43257]

It sounds like DH43257 has never travelled on the route during the peak pre covid. The service has been operated hourly as 3-4 car formations for a reason.

I may not have, but look post Covid. Are travel levels really going to be so high for another 5 years?

 

[JamesRowden]

I may not have, but look post Covid. Are travel levels really going to be so high for another 5 years?

I think that the vast majority of the people travelling on the service were not travelling to office jobs that they can do at home. The 200 mile journeys that I use it for won't become any less frequent (in fact they will become more frequent because of the holiday that I have saved up).

 

[Romsey]

To save a few minutes journey time on a rural branchline, just how much would that cost in engineering works to raise speed limits?
More sensibly resignalling to CTC centralised tokeless block signallinging and remove the the time consuming NSKT machines at Eggesford. Again that will be a price with six zeros on the end.....

 

[JamesRowden]

Also, making the service 2 hourly would mean having to pay me back 100% of my £70 fare for a missed connection.

 

[geordieblue]

the way to make meaningful economic change is to cut that down to 1 unit

The way to make meaningful economic change is to ignore rural lines with a train every hour and instead slash services in the south east.

 

[Romsey]

Just remember where most of the Conservative seats are in this country which will remain after the next election. Only a political fool would countenance cutting services in the South East area.....
( Oh, hang on..... expect to see the Brighton ML reduced to one stopper and a Thameslink to Bedford in May 2022!)

 

[yorkie]

I may not have, but look post Covid. Are travel levels really going to be so high for another 5 years?

I don't think the Barnstaple line will bee too affected once things get back to normal.

 

[HST43257]

I don't think the Barnstaple line will bee too affected once things get back to normal.

If thats the case, they should still speed up the line and make it a 1tph, 2 train shuttle. The only loop you need is one at about Lapford if my timings are correct.

 

[Class172]

I don't think the Barnstaple line will bee too affected once things get back to normal.

Indeed, usage on the nearby Devon metro service from Exmouth to Paignton had picked up very well before we entered lockdown.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 Jan 2021 ==

If thats the case, they should still speed up the line and make it a 1tph, 2 train shuttle. The only loop you need is one at about Lapford if my timings are correct.

I don’t understand how you could fulfil a 1tph service with just two trains. End to end, even if you just ran to Exeter St David’s and not out to St James’ Park, would not allow time to satisfy such a constraint, hence why the current service operates with three diagrams.

 

[HST43257]

Indeed, usage on the nearby Devon metro service from Exmouth to Paignton had picked up very well before we entered lockdown.

I don’t understand how you could fulfil a 1tph service with just two trains. End to end, even if you just ran to Exeter St David’s and not out to St James’ Park, would not allow time to satisfy such a constraint, hence why the current service operates with three diagrams.

A current midnight service does Barnstaple to St Davids in 56 minutes, calling at Eggesford (2 min stop) and Crediton (1 min stop).

Increase some line speeds and rationalise the route so there’s just 1 passing loop. This would be at Lapford, which would be one of the only stops not to close (or receive a ghost service), alongside Copplestone and Crediton.

Ideally the service would get to Exeter Central, since that’s where the shops are.

 

[Gloster]

If thats the case, they should still speed up the line and make it a 1tph, 2 train shuttle. The only loop you need is one at about Lapford if my timings are correct.

You are suggesting spending a lot of money in an uncertain time (who knows how things are going to develop) to worsen the service (by not running up to the centre of Exeter). How long would the operational savings of one or two units fewer take to pay off the costs of a new loop and line-speed improvements? (There is a crossing at Eggesford which also slows trains. Is this going to be replaced as well?)

 

[HST43257]

You are suggesting spending a lot of money in an uncertain time (who knows how things are going to develop) to worsen the service (by not running up to the centre of Exeter).

I’m certainly not suggesting just running to St Davids. Central is a must, it just means that route upgrades have to be a little more. In the long term, it should be economically beneficial to have less units and less track to maintain, even if a little has to be spent doing such rationalisation.

 

[Gloster]

I’m certainly not suggesting just running to St Davids. Central is a must, it just means that route upgrades have to be a little more. In the long term, it should be economically beneficial to have less units and less track to maintain, even if a little has to be spent doing such rationalisation.

I can’t see how you would have less track to maintain. You still have one loop, but now it has been expensively moved.

 

[Ashley Hill]

There isn't much more to rationalise that hasn't already been done. Many would argue for more reinstatement such as a new junction at Coleford and re-doubling from there to Credition. Plus if you remove something to cut cost in the short term it will cost far more to put it back in the future.
One proposal put forward by North Devon Rail Users Group (who like the OP only appear to want fast trains Barnstaple to Exeter and sod the stations in between) suggested replacing Copplestone and Morchard Road with a new Mid Devon Parkway roughly between the two supposedly cutting a couple of minutes off the journey time.

 

[Cowley]

There isn't much more to rationalise that hasn't already been done. Many would argue for more reinstatement such as a new junction at Coleford and re-doubling from there to Credition. Plus if you remove something to cut cost in the short term it will cost far more to put it back in the future.
One proposal put forward by North Devon Rail Users Group (who like the OP only appear to want fast trains Barnstaple to Exeter and sod the stations in between) suggested replacing Copplestone and Morchard Road with a new Mid Devon Parkway roughly between the two supposedly cutting a couple of minutes off the journey time.

Yep. It needs to be left on the trajectory that it was on for now in the hopes that things will bounce back somewhat.
The line is a remarkable success story compared to where it was in the early 90s and the news has been pretty much all good over the last few years. It now feels like a route that has the right people fighting its corner and that’s because they understand how to get the best out of it.

 

[Neptune]

Very obvious the op has never travelled on the route. When I’m in the area on hols I often catch the 0843 from Barnstaple and at every stop it fills up with either shoppers and/or college students.

Saving using 1 (yes ONE) unit diagram by making expensive modifications to the route and cutting out stops (and potentially revenue) is not the way to go.

 

[21C101]

Has a member of the WR Bristol Closure Unit dubbed "a merry band of nihilists" by Fiennes found a time machine?

For a start any such rationalisation would preclude serving Exeter Central which would kill usage stone dead.

Secondly it would kill any prospect of joining the Waterloo - Exeter to Exeter - Barnstaple services together (although improved infrastructure is needed for that; as a minimum line speed improvements to knock 5 minutes off the Eggesford to Barnstaple Journey time (to extend the Barnstaple Layover to 20 minutes), and ideally turning Eggesford loop into a dynamic loop and reinstating Coleford Junction so giving double track from there to Crediton), the latter of which may happen anyway for Okehampton reasons, fortunately not just yet, which means the Okehampton (Down) line track is getting upgraded as part of the Okehampton works.

I had cause to travel from north of London to Eggesford last summer, out via Salisbory and back via the GW route.

The busiest train on the whole journey was the Barnstaple service both ways (and this was offpeak). I was astonished on my return journey to find Eggesford being used as a Parkway station with the tiny station car park being quite chaotic with all the dropping off and picking up going on.

From memory, nine people got on the Exeter train and seven people got off it. This was more people who got off and on the Jubilee Line train I was on at Waterloo on my outward journey at the height of the peak.

It was noticable that the Waterloo to Exeter service only really got busynfrom Axminster onwards and the two Exeter Stations were the only ones I could describe as at all busy on the whole journey.

When the ridership figures come out I suspect the south wests rail user figures will have held up better than many places.

A move to people working mainly at home will also increase traffic at places like Eggesford and Barnstaple as people take advantage and move out further, commuting to London one or two days a week.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 Jan 2021 ==

Very obvious the op has never travelled on the route. When I’m in the area on hols I often catch the 0843 from Barnstaple and at every stop it fills up with either shoppers and/or college students.

Saving using 1 (yes ONE) unit diagram by making expensive modifications to the route and cutting out stops (and potentially revenue) is not the way to go.

Also making the whole thing horribly unreliable by having tight turnrounds at both ends instead of the current half hour of so layover at Exmouth Jct.

 

[30907]

Purely practically, Crediton has to stay because of Okehampton, which NR is currently spending money on.
Lapford gets fewer trains than the others (bar Chapelton) so I presume has fewer passengers which means that putting a loop and new platform there is particularly inefficient.

If you need to save money, operate 2-hourly to Barnstaple and 2-hourly to Okehampton using the existing 3 sets. Not that I am suggesting it!
And if you want to spend, then yes, increase the linespeed!

 

[JonathanH]

If you need to save money, operate 2-hourly to Barnstaple and 2-hourly to Okehampton using the existing 3 sets. Not that I am suggesting it!
And if you want to spend, then yes, increase the linespeed!

Just have Barnstaple passengers change at Crediton into an Okehampton service if you need to operate services to both Okehampton and Barnstaple and save units.
Exeter to Okehampton and Crediton to Barnstaple, both possible for one unit operating every other hour, although of course, it wouldn't be possible to make the connections work in both directions.

I'm not quite sure why the OP is picking out the Barnstaple line as a target for service cuts.

 

[21C101]

Just have Barnstaple passengers change at Crediton into an Okehampton service if you need to operate services to both Okehampton and Barnstaple and save units.
Exeter to Okehampton and Crediton to Barnstaple, both possible for one unit operating every other hour, although of course, it wouldn't be possible to make the connections work in both directions.

I'm not quite sure why the OP is picking out the Barnstaple line as a target for service cuts.

Having to change at both Crediton (and Exeter to get to London) would be a splendid way to ensure the Okehampton reopening failed miserably).

 

[geordieblue]

Just remember where most of the Conservative seats are in this country which will remain after the next election. Only a political fool would countenance cutting services in the South East area.....
( Oh, hang on..... expect to see the Brighton ML reduced to one stopper and a Thameslink to Bedford in May 2022!)

But the SE is solid Tory territory; it's 'outer Britain' where the Conservatives need to consolidate, and a halving of service will be noticed more in Barnstaple (1tph) than in St Albans (10tph).

 

[The Planner]

If thats the case, they should still speed up the line and make it a 1tph, 2 train shuttle. The only loop you need is one at about Lapford if my timings are correct.

What sort of stopping pattern are you looking at for that? as it is now with request stops? What you need to look at is if the line speed increases are actually drivable. Many of the stations are reasonably close together, not much more than 3 - 4 miles apart. There are also a LOT of user worked crossings and a couple of ABCL and AOCL for good measure, how many of those need to be dealt with to increase the line speed?
The rationalisation of track will likely not save you much money either, if you speed up the line speed up past 65 for many sections you may jump a track category, that requires more inspection, higher spec components etc, more cost.

 

[30907]

Just have Barnstaple passengers change at Crediton into an Okehampton service if you need to operate services to both Okehampton and Barnstaple and save units.
Exeter to Okehampton and Crediton to Barnstaple, both possible for one unit operating every other hour, although of course, it wouldn't be possible to make the connections work in both directions.

I'm not quite sure why the OP is picking out the Barnstaple line as a target for service cuts.

Barnstaple-Central-Okehampton and back might be doable with 2 units 2 hourly, with the two units crossing between St Davids and Cowley Br. But that's a very inflexible pattern which couldn't easily increase to hourly again.
Leave well alone for now!

 

[JamesRowden]

Barnstaple-Central-Okehampton and back might be doable with 2 units 2 hourly, with the two units crossing between St Davids and Cowley Br. But that's a very inflexible pattern which couldn't easily increase to hourly again.
Leave well alone for now!

Each train would need to be formed of 2 units to meet the peak Barnstaple-Exeter demand (produced by an hourly service). So would achieve nothing.

 

[HST43257]

What sort of stopping pattern are you looking at for that? as it is now with request stops? What you need to look at is if the line speed increases are actually drivable. Many of the stations are reasonably close together, not much more than 3 - 4 miles apart. There are also a LOT of user worked crossings and a couple of ABCL and AOCL for good measure, how many of those need to be dealt with to increase the line speed?
The rationalisation of track will likely not save you much money either, if you speed up the line speed up past 65 for many sections you may jump a track category, that requires more inspection, higher spec components etc, more cost.

I reckon you could get up to max. 60mph and get the time up to 54 mins from Barnstaple to Exmouth Jn (terminating at Exeter Central to save a minute).

After another look, I think I’d have an hourly service with calls at Umberleigh, Eggesford, Copplestone (1tp2h), Yeoford (1tp2h), and Crediton. They’d all hopefully be able to have extra car park spaces to replace the demand from everywhere else and to encourage a park and ride approach.

You could maybe have a couple of services a day to everywhere else in the peak times if the closing process proves too complicated.

A dynamic loop is probably best, somewhere around Lapford.

 

[bramling]

A current midnight service does Barnstaple to St Davids in 56 minutes, calling at Eggesford (2 min stop) and Crediton (1 min stop).

Increase some line speeds and rationalise the route so there’s just 1 passing loop. This would be at Lapford, which would be one of the only stops not to close (or receive a ghost service), alongside Copplestone and Crediton.

Ideally the service would get to Exeter Central, since that’s where the shops are.

Why would you want to put a loop at Lapford which is one of the least used stations on the line?

The busiest intermediate stations are Crediton, Yeoford, Copplestone and Umberleigh. Then there’s the fact that many people wish to travel to Exeter Central.

Whilst the current setup isn’t perfect, it does largely cater for what people actually want.

 

[JonathanH]

They’d all hopefully be able to have extra car park spaces to replace the demand from everywhere else and to encourage

Are we really wanting to encourage (car) park and ride over walk and ride where the latter is the current position?

 

[HST43257]

Why would you want to put a loop at Lapford which is one of the least used stations on the line?

The busiest intermediate stations are Crediton, Yeoford, Copplestone and Umberleigh. Then there’s the fact that many people wish to travel to Exeter Central.

Whilst the current setup isn’t perfect, it does largely cater for what people actually want.

I’ve revised the Lapford station part - I was being a bit dim, only looking at settlement size on a map.

Ive now seen that the highest station usage figures per year are approximately:

Crediton: 60K
Umberleigh and Eggesford (not combined): 30K
Yeoford and Copplestone (not combined): 15K