2020 US Presidential Election

[Bald Rick]

Perhaps Trump V2 will be like Hitler’s V2 - expensive, bloody noisy, inaccurate but still destructive, and ultimately futile. But only a worry for a few months.

 

[hst43102]

I imagine the Democrats would probably benefit from that approach, as it would only split the conservative vote.

I think Trump has benefitted the Democrats much more than they realise. Unless Biden really messes up I think he has a clear shot at 2024.

 

[Hardcastle]

The worrying thing till 20/1 is what he might get up to finish his tenure theres a warship sat outside some possible warzone waiting to fire a very egoistic dangerous man.

 

[Gloster]

I think Trump has benefitted the Democrats much more than they realise. Unless Biden really messes up I think he has a clear shot at 2024.

I doubt that Biden will go for a second term. By the time of the election he will only be a fortnight short of his eighty-second birthday. Even against Trump, such an age is likely to be a liability, and against someone younger it could be a serious vote-loser. Harris could be well placed if she has acquitted herself well as VP except for one problem: her gender.

 

[brad465]

Apart from anything else, he'll be the same as Biden is now at the time of the next election, and I can't see him looking any more healthy, or bringing on a running-mate you could picture him handing over power to.

I'm amazed that given his age combined with his constant anger and stress at not getting his way, that Trump hasn't had a heart attack yet.

 

[superjohn]

I think Trump has benefitted the Democrats much more than they realise. Unless Biden really messes up I think he has a clear shot at 2024.

A half decent first term would allow him to gracefully retire and leave the way clear for Kamala Harris to make history. Yes, it would be a tall order but the Republicans will not be remotely healed by that point and she will never have a better chance.

 

[hst43102]

I doubt that Biden will go for a second term. By the time of the election he will only be a fortnight short of his eighty-second birthday. Even against Trump, such an age is likely to be a liability, and against someone younger it could be a serious vote-loser. Harris could be well placed if she has acquitted herself well as VP except for one problem: her gender.

I think only time will tell. One thing is for sure - the Democrats will probably have a landslide victory in 2024 unless the Republicans can choose a very strong and convincing leader who not only wins back the Trumpists but also voters in purple states. Harris could be well placed but we'll have to see whether she makes a good VP, don't forget that her presidential campaign was a disaster. I think the next few years will make or break America's democratic system.

 

[takno]

I'm amazed that given his age combined with his constant anger and stress at not getting his way, that Trump hasn't had a heart attack yet.

I don't think he's even got one of those

 

[DelW]

I think there's a strong possibility he will set up his own party - "Greater America" or something similar - and run for President in 2024 under that ticket. You would like to think he won't get anywhere, but who knows!

I should think that's quite likely, not least because of the opportunity that will give him to raise money from the faithful. With his own party, he can control its accounts and use them for his own purposes. Plus he can sell them the same old tat all over again but with the new party branding on it.
Highly unlikely the new party would get anywhere, but if he's making money and keeping the Trump ego in the public eye and in the media, he won't worry about that.

 

[birchesgreen]

Creating his own party will ensure a Democrat win in 2024. So he should go for it!

 

[dgl]

And now it turns out that a US Capitol police office has now died because of injuries sustained during the attack on the Capitol.
Party of law and order? Hell no.

Of course dt it condemning the attack but he's about as believable as well himself!

US Capitol riot: Police officer dies amid pressure on Trump over inciting violence

Top Democrats call for the president to be removed as he commits to an "orderly" transition of power.

www.bbc.co.uk

A US Capitol police officer has died from injuries sustained in the attack on Congress by a pro-Trump mob as top Democrats have called for the president to be removed for "inciting" the riot.
House Speaker Nancy Pelosi urged Vice-President Mike Pence to invoke the 25th amendment to the Constitution to declare the president unfit for office.
Alternatively, she vowed to initiate the process to impeach the president.
Under pressure, Donald Trump finally condemned the "heinous attack".
Wednesday's violence came hours after Mr Trump encouraged his supporters to fight against the election results as Congress was certifying President-elect Joe Biden's victory in the November vote.
Five people have died in relation to the riot, including Brian Sicknick, an officer at the US Capitol Police (USCP) who was "injured while physically engaging with protesters", the police said.

 

[Whistler40145]

I don't think he's even got one of those

Donald Trump hasn't got a heart, just a swinging demolition ball

 

[island]

From Trump presidency and Capitol siege: What is the 25th Amendment? - BBC News

So the 25th also requires a 2/3 majority, and in both chambers, if Trump is able to string enough words together to produce an objection in writing and the resulting votes can't be stalled until inauguration day. If the 25th comes into force then Trump would still be President, Pence would only be Acting, which probably means impeachment could go forward in parallel.

The theoretical order of events is

• Pence plus 8 cabinet members sign a declaration that Trump is unable to discharge the duties of his office and send it to the President pro tem of the Senate and the Speaker of the HOR (I will refer to these two recipients as “the Speakers” going forward for brevity)
• This suspends Trump’s powers and makes Pence acting president
• Trump can send the Speakers a declaration that no inability exists, and he gets his powers back, unless...
• Pence plus 8 cabinet members send a further declaration to the Speakers within 4 days
• At that point Trump is suspended again for 21 days
• A two thirds votes in both houses of Congress during the 21 days would make the suspension permanent, but of course his term in office will be expired by then.

 

[berneyarms]

If you want to be ignorant, to the warning signs then I just dont know.

People will not see Trump v2 coming,.

In your posts you keep suggesting people here aren't capable of understanding the schism in the politics and society in the USA.

I beg to differ. We are intelligent enough to understand what is going on.

 

[nlogax]

Am highly doubtful that there'll be either an impeachment or a 25th Amendment ousting. While there's plenty of Democratic appetite for the former there's just no time, and Pence doesn't want any part of the latter - plus those that could have supported it instead just seem to be quitting the cabinet. There's just going to be a lot of gritting of teeth to get through the next twelve days.

 

[jfollows]

Am highly doubtful that there'll be either an impeachment or a 25th Amendment ousting. While there's plenty of Democratic appetite for the former there's just no time, and Pence doesn't want any part of the latter - plus those that could have supported it instead just seem to be quitting the cabinet. There's just going to be a lot of gritting of teeth to get through the next twelve days.

I agree with you. Trying to get rid of Trump now doesn't really achieve very much but puts him back in the public eye, which is what he wants. Better to try and ignore him as much as possible now. His actions on Wednesday have pretty much ensured that he's not going to be able to stand again for President, or anything much else, so his opponents - amongst whom I count myself - should be happy that he's almost yesterday's man. That's not to say that he can't do something bad in the next couple of weeks, or that he could stand again, but I think he's now become the motivator and mobiliser of significant anti-Trump vote who will come out in force again if need be to oppose him in future.

 

[najaB]

I should think that's quite likely, not least because of the opportunity that will give him to raise money from the faithful. With his own party, he can control its accounts and use them for his own purposes.

Without the protection of being the sitting president, misusing political party money will result in a short trip to a small room with no handle on the inside of the door.

Trying to get rid of Trump now doesn't really achieve very much but puts him back in the public eye, which is what he wants.

It's not just about getting rid of him, it's about showing that his actions have some consequence. While the time available is quite short, impeachment would ensure that he could never again run for elected office even if he wanted to.

 

[overthewater]

In your posts you keep suggesting people here aren't capable of understanding the schism in the politics and society in the USA.

I beg to differ. We are intelligent enough to understand what is going on.

Your reply to my reply was a reply to someone saying I was a trump hardliner support, all I said was trying to impeach the guy would result in more riots and it would be better if he just sit there with no one listening to him for the next 11 days now. The fact you had to go right out of your way to "We are intelligent enough" is weird, I never question nor did anyone else question the intelligent people on here, however trying to explain the different views points is different kettle of fish.
I would preferer for people to come back with better response to post than "you a patriot" I get trump etc etc, I hate Boris I know were stuck with him until 2024, I dont want him to go,. I know what could be coming round the Conner.

 

[DelW]

Without the protection of being the sitting president, misusing political party money will result in a short trip to a small room with no handle on the inside of the door.

I suspect that it all depends how it's structured. Private Eye has had some interesting articles about the way Farage's latest party has its finances organised. (Unfortunately I can't quote details as they've gone into the recycling.)

 

[jfollows]

It's not just about getting rid of him, it's about showing that his actions have some consequence. While the time available is quite short, impeachment would ensure that he could never again run for elected office even if he wanted to.

Whilst I don't disagree with your sentiment or your objectives, I feel that the processes would be more about self-promotion by Trump's opponents than they would be about punishing Trump. I think that the consequences of his actions can be meted out in a more considered and long-lasting way, after reflection, instead of trying to do something now and quickly. But, that's my perspective, I don't disagree with yours either, it's just the method rather than the outcome I think should be different.

More important, I think is to think about addressing the huge numbers of people in the USA who believe that the election was fraudulent in some way, and I think that a campaign to remove Trump now would simply reinforce the views of people who think this. A more measured approach could also reconcile some of these people in the longer term, hard though that might be.

 

[Peter Sarf]

I think there is a big difference: In the US, there's a longstanding tradition and culture of democracy that has been steadily built up over 200 years. I'd argue that culture is precisely why Trump was never going to get his way in terms of staying in power once he'd lost the 2020 election, even though things looked pretty scary for a time afterwards. Judges - even ones that Trump had personally appointed - were, on the whole, never going to accept electoral challenges that obviously had no evidence behind them. Numerous Trump-supporting Republicans in various states from Pennsylvania to Georgia to Arizona made it clear that they were going to respect the votes that they had just supervised counting, no matter what Trump demanded. And the US military leaders have made it amply clear that their loyalty is to the constitution, not to Trump.

On the other hand, in Weimar Germany, there was no such tradition. Democracy had essentially been just imported to Germany after WW1 - up until then, Germany was ruled by what amounted to a fairly authoritarian dictatorship. That would have made it relatively easy for Hitler to dismantle democracy. (I'd argue that's also precisely why people like Putin in Russia and Chavez/Maduro in Venezuela have found it so easy to destroy democracy in their respective countries).

For that reason I wouldn't worry too much about the parallel - although I would certainly be concerned about the possibility of Trump winning another election - he's definitely caused a lot of damage to democracy in the US, and another term would allow him to do a lot more damage.

Your right. There would have to be a lot more unpicking of democracy for Trump or TrumpV2 to get anywhere in the USA. I fear what damage could happen on the way though. I also fear the message it sends to fledgling democracies around the world.

Another significant difference is that Hitler was 34 at the time of the Beer Hall Putsch. Trump is 40 years older. He won’t be back. Trump v2.0 might.

That is very true. Main thing for now is to avoid Trump becoming a martyr.

I don't think he's even got one of those

- would make a lot of sense if he really has no heart.

Am highly doubtful that there'll be either an impeachment or a 25th Amendment ousting. While there's plenty of Democratic appetite for the former there's just no time, and Pence doesn't want any part of the latter - plus those that could have supported it instead just seem to be quitting the cabinet. There's just going to be a lot of gritting of teeth to get through the next twelve days.

I am tempted to say leave him to carry on digging his hole. He will not be seen to be punished but then he also will not have been seen to be gagged by his loyal supporters.

-----------------

Overall I would say democracy cannot be to complacent about Trump. But how to deal with him is difficult. He has money and power but no common sense. The first/main losers are going to be the Republican party.

Have you also seen the threats Trumps family have been making to republicans who dare to stand up to him ?. I have heard a bit but is it true ?.

 

[dgl]

Hopefully trump soo won't have the money, people like him like to hand around those with cash, people without less so. Money has given him friends lack of money will take them away.

 

[SuspectUsual]

Invoking the 25th amendment would give Trump a reason not to attend Biden’s inauguration, wouldn’t it?

 

[Peter Sarf]

Invoking the 25th amendment would give Trump a reason not to attend Biden’s inauguration, wouldn’t it?

Oh gosh, horrible thought. Biden's inauguration will be Trumps last chance to cause a scene.

It should have been me. Your all fake. I won and you stole it from me. (keep on digging !).

 

[island]

He’s already booked to fly to Scotland the day before.

 

[najaB]

I suspect that it all depends how it's structured. Private Eye has had some interesting articles about the way Farage's latest party has its finances organised. (Unfortunately I can't quote details as they've gone into the recycling.)

US political finance law is considerably more complex than here in the UK. He's already facing an investigation by SDNY over financial misdealing with his inauguration fund - and that is one of the areas that has very little regulation. If he was to misuse contributions to an actual party it *would* be prosecuted.

 

[DelW]

Oh gosh, horrible thought. Biden's inauguration will be Trumps last chance to cause a scene.

It should have been me. Your all fake. I won and you stole it from me. (keep on digging !).

I doubt if his ego would ever have let him attend someone else's inauguration, especially now he's been dumped after one term (whether or not he believes that).

He’s already booked to fly to Scotland the day before.

Time for a welcoming party with pitchforks (they're long enough to allow social distancing). Maybe the baby Trump balloon can be sent north in time

 

[nlogax]

He’s already booked to fly to Scotland the day before.

Although there's a lot of talk from Sturgeon about him not being allowed to do it, if he lands while he's still US president I'm unsure what she or the Scottish authorities can do. They're certainly not going to escort AF1 off the coast with a squadron of Typhoons, that's for sure.

 

[43096]

It seems one of those who died is an early 2021 candidate for a Darwin Award...

One of the people who died storming the Capitol died from a taser, which was his own, which he managed to accidentally taser himself.

 

[Whistler40145]

He’s already booked to fly to Scotland the day before.

And Nichola Sturgeon has already said he's not welcome and can forget about visiting Scotland