2020 US Presidential Election

[43096]

I shouldn't be, but I'm still surprised at his complete and total inability to admit ever that he lost at anything.

I don't know if there's enough time - though I guess they could make it - but the correct course of action would be to impeach and remove from office. As well as being an appropriate censure, it would also mean that he would be unable to run again for any elected public office.

After he's impeached - and unable to pardon himself - then they can take him through the legal system.

The faster option is for the VP and cabinet to invoke the 25th amendment and determine him to be unfit for office. In that scenario, Pence becomes president immediately.

 

[Whistler40145]

The faster option is for the VP and cabinet to invoke the 25th amendment and determine him to be unfit for office. In that scenario, Pence becomes president immediately.

That would be a rather short time in office

 

[43096]

That would be a rather short time in office

Indeed. But without it, the next two weeks are highly unpredictable.

 

[dgl]

That would be a rather short time in office

Would be a great way of telling trump that the republicans don't want you any more and that you are indeed a failure, would hurt his ego nicely.

 

[najaB]

The faster option is for the VP and cabinet to invoke the 25th amendment and determine him to be unfit for office. In that scenario, Pence becomes president immediately.

Yes, that would be faster. But it wouldn't be a repudiation, and it wouldn't stop him from running for office again.

 

[Whistler40145]

Would be a great way of telling trump that the republicans don't want you any more and that you are indeed a failure, would hurt his ego nicely.

I have absolutely no idea what goes on inside President Trump's head, is he going around in a dream world that he's won the election or simply that he's a crook and the only person who's attempting fraud is himself?

 

[DelW]

Here's what Trump said (comment by The Guardian at the end):

"the end of the greatest first term in presidential history"???

Even by Trump's standards, this surely must be one of his most deluded statements. Not just one of the few recent presidents to lose after one-term, he's the first since 1932 to lose the presidency, the Senate and the House simultaneously. "The greatest failure in recent presidential history" would be nearer the mark.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Jan 2021 ==

I have absolutely no idea what goes on inside President Trump's head, is he going around in a dream world that he's won the election or simply that he's a crook and the only person who's attempting fraud is himself?

Shades of the last days of Hitler. The defeated leader, raging impotently in his bunker surrounded by his last few acolytes, living in an imaginary world where he can still send out his stormtroopers to refight battles which in reality were lost weeks before.

Being banned from Twitter must really be hurting him too. I wonder if he actually wrote that last post, or if he's been sidelined by his own staff?

 

[Strathclyder]

"the end of the greatest first term in presidential history"???

Even by Trump's standards, this surely must be one of his most deluded statements. Not just one of the few recent presidents to lose after one-term, he's the first since 1932 to lose the presidency, the Senate and the House simultaneously. "The greatest failure in recent presidential history" would be nearer the mark.

Totally in keeping with who he is: a deluded narcissist.

 

[jfollows]

Looking into last night's proceedings a little more:

• Jody Hice, of Georgia, objected to the election results in Georgia but found that no senator had also signed the objection, Kelly Loeffler having indicated previously that she would but withdrew her objection following the recent events.
• Marjorie Taylor Greene, of Georgia, objected to the election results in Michigan but no senator supported the objection.
• Mo Brooks objected to the election results in Nevada, but no senator supported the objection.
• Scott Perry and Josh Hawley objected to the election results in Pennsylvania, and in the Senate 7 votes were to sustain the objection from Ted Cruz (Texas), Josh Hawley (Missouri), Cynthia Lummis (Wyoming), Roger Marshall (Kansas), Rick Scott (Florida), Tommy Tuberville (Alabama) and Cindy Hyde-Smith (Mississippi).
• A Republican (Ron Johnson Tom Tiffany from Wisconsin, I think) objected to the election results in Wisconsin, but no senator supported the objection.

Given that the debate on the Arizona results was already underway when the session was suspended, I think especially poorly of those who continued to insist on a debate on the Pennsylvania result after resumption, which was simply some kind of political posturing. I hope people remember who did what on this night.

 

[najaB]

I wonder if he actually wrote that last post, or if he's been sidelined by his own staff?

I very much doubt it.

 

[dgl]

And as somebody said on another forum, these people were Y'allqaeda

 

[21C101]

The silly fool has played right into his enemies hands with this disgraceful invasion of Congress.

Who does he think he is, Wolfie Smith?

 

[nlogax]

Who does he think he is, Wolfie Smith?

He doesn't think, other than 'me me me'. Full stop.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I have absolutely no idea what goes on inside President Trump's head, is he going around in a dream world that he's won the election or simply that he's a crook and the only person who's attempting fraud is himself?

Something like this, I suspect:

 

[class ep-09]

Impeachment requires a two-thirds majority in each house. However, the process seems unlikely to come from start to finish within the remaining two weeks of Trump’s presidency.

I think it is simple majority in the Congress and 2/3 in the Senate .

That’s why Democrats were able to push impeachment through Congress last spring, but got bogged up in the Senate.

 

[najaB]

I think it is simple majority in the Congress and 2/3 in the Senate

That is correct.

 

[Domh245]

It'll be interesting to see what happens between now and the 20th. If yesterday wasn't grounds for the 25th or successful impeachment, what on earth is

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

Analysis of the police response compared to protests in 2014 about police brutality and murder against people of colour. It’s hard to disagree with what is said.

 

[overthewater]

It was an absolutely disgrace yesterday, I think we all saw this coming. It's NO good saying there was no fraud etc etc and trying to swept it under the carpet. what should have been done in the first place was allow most of the court cases to actually go ahead and present the evidence, however most the case were throw out because of other issues like too early, too late, not the right standing. The Hunter Biden investigation was told there nothing to it, but something is being looked into. Then the fact the main news media keep by pass anything trump says etc They were happy to push stuff out for the last 5 years...

These people believe now there is something being covered up because of all that and more taking place.

Trump may have lost house, senate and the white house all within a 4 years and the first since 1932, lets be clear here in 1932 it was a total blow out. margins of like 400 in the EC, 90 in the House. The best Biden was able to get was match trump performance 4 years ago and get to a tie in the senate. Biden victory in was down to 45k votes, in the EC in the Senate 30'000 votes.

What I'm trying to get here is some people still think that's the end of it, do not ignore the fact alot of people still like Trump or his policy, these warning signs mean as others have said if they can find a Tony Blair well... you better watch out.

Analysis of the police response compared to protests in 2014 about police brutality and murder against people of colour. It’s hard to disagree with what is said.

The police were told to scale it back. I think if it wasn't for the issues last year it would have been more heavy handed.

 

[Peter Sarf]

And adds that he loves them and tells them they're very special...

He really is keeping his cronies on side.

The legal challenges to the election results really needed to be seen to be investigated thoroughly rather than just being thrown out (which is probably all they deserved - but). Need to see them gone through with a fine tooth comb.

Lets hope he doesn't try and stand again although you would hope the events of the last 24 hours have ruled him well out of the republican party and if he did try and stand again it would have to be as an independent.

He also need to answer for the past 24 hours in court.

The republican party really need to stand up to this monster.

Would be a great way of telling trump that the republicans don't want you any more and that you are indeed a failure, would hurt his ego nicely.

Until his money or liberty run out he will continue stoking the fires of unrest.

I have absolutely no idea what goes on inside President Trump's head, is he going around in a dream world that he's won the election or simply that he's a crook and the only person who's attempting fraud is himself?

He is incapable of admitting defeat. The harder he, inevitably, gets pushed the harder he will push back.

"the end of the greatest first term in presidential history"???

Even by Trump's standards, this surely must be one of his most deluded statements. Not just one of the few recent presidents to lose after one-term, he's the first since 1932 to lose the presidency, the Senate and the House simultaneously. "The greatest failure in recent presidential history" would be nearer the mark.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Jan 2021 ==


Shades of the last days of Hitler. The defeated leader, raging impotently in his bunker surrounded by his last few acolytes, living in an imaginary world where he can still send out his stormtroopers to refight battles which in reality were lost weeks before.

Being banned from Twitter must really be hurting him too. I wonder if he actually wrote that last post, or if he's been sidelined by his own staff?

Yes - he is deluded. A lot of parallels with Adolf Hitler. History does repeat itself. He is appealing to the knee jerk brigade who see violence as the ultimate solution. Not least is the worrying fact that this has been allowed to develop over four years. Not enough people wanted to stand up to him in his own party. Or likely not many people could see where it was heading - you only have to look at the history of the rise to power of Adolf Hitler and the Nazi party.

Trump possibly has more money than Adolf Hitler had access to. This is not over yet by a long way. Trump will not stop until himself and his followers are a spent force. And then a legend will persist after.

 

[simonw]

It was an absolutely disgrace yesterday, I think we all saw this coming. It's NO good saying there was no fraud etc etc and trying to swept it under the carpet. what should have been done in the first place was allow most of the court cases to actually go ahead and present the evidence, however most the case were throw out because of other issues like too early, too late, not the right standing. The Hunter Biden investigation was told there nothing to it, but something is being looked into. Then the fact the main news media keep by pass anything trump says etc They were happy to push stuff out for the last 5 years...

These people believe now there is something being covered up because of all that and more taking place.

Trump may have lost house, senate and the white house all within a 4 years and the first since 1932, lets be clear here in 1932 it was a total blow out. margins of like 400 in the EC, 90 in the House. The best Biden was able to get was match trump performance 4 years ago and get to a tie in the senate. Biden victory in was down to 45k votes, in the EC in the Senate 30'000 votes.

What I'm trying to get here is some people still think that's the end of it, do not ignore the fact alot of people still like Trump or his policy, these warning signs mean as others have said if they can find a Tony Blair well... you better watch out.




The police were told to scale it back. I think if it wasn't for the issues last year it would have been more heavy handed.

The cases were thrown out, in the main, because there was no evidence out before the courts. Some were thrown out because the appellant had no standing but even in those there was no evidence.

 

[WelshBluebird]

It was an absolutely disgrace yesterday, I think we all saw this coming. It's NO good saying there was no fraud etc etc and trying to swept it under the carpet. what should have been done in the first place was allow most of the court cases to actually go ahead and present the evidence, however most the case were throw out because of other issues like too early, too late, not the right standing. The Hunter Biden investigation was told there nothing to it, but something is being looked into. Then the fact the main news media keep by pass anything trump says etc They were happy to push stuff out for the last 5 years...

These people believe now there is something being covered up because of all that and more taking place.

There is a process to follow. You can't just have an investigation for no reason other than because some idiots believe something has happened when there is literally zero evidence to suggest it has. If I claim I have been assaulted but there is literally no evidence, that case will not go to court. Why should this be any different? For a case there has to be actual real evidence.

 

[edwin_m]

It'll be interesting to see what happens between now and the 20th. If yesterday wasn't grounds for the 25th or successful impeachment, what on earth is

They would need to sign a letter to the speakers of the Houses of Representatives and the Senate declaring the president is unfit to govern or incapable "of discharging the powers and duties of his office". At this point, Vice-President Mike Pence would automatically take over.
The president is given the chance to offer a written response, and if he contests the finding, then it falls on Congress to decide. Any vote in the Senate and House of Representatives ordering the president's removal requires a two-thirds majority.
Until the issue is resolved, the vice-president would act as president

From Trump presidency and Capitol siege: What is the 25th Amendment? - BBC News

So the 25th also requires a 2/3 majority, and in both chambers, if Trump is able to string enough words together to produce an objection in writing and the resulting votes can't be stalled until inauguration day. If the 25th comes into force then Trump would still be President, Pence would only be Acting, which probably means impeachment could go forward in parallel.

 

[najaB]

What should have been done in the first place was allow most of the court cases to actually go ahead and present the evidence, however most the case were throw out because of other issues like too early, too late, not the right standing.

But if they didn't have standing to bring the case in the first place or if the correct process hadn't been followed, any judgement or decision would have been void anyway. Trump's legal team deliberately brought cases that would be dismissed summarily precisely because they knew they had no evidence to support the claims they were making in public (claims which they never made in court, by the way).

What's the saying: If the law's on your side, pound on the law. If the facts are on your side, pound of the facts. If you've got neither on your side, pound on the table.

The Hunter Biden investigation was told there nothing to it, but something is being looked into.

There is nothing to the Hunter Biden allegations that were being pushed (laptops, etc.) He is being separately investigated over unpaid taxes, the two have nothing whatsoever to do with each other.

 

[43096]

From Trump presidency and Capitol siege: What is the 25th Amendment? - BBC News

So the 25th also requires a 2/3 majority, and in both chambers, if Trump is able to string enough words together to produce an objection in writing and the resulting votes can't be stalled until inauguration day. If the 25th comes into force then Trump would still be President, Pence would only be Acting, which probably means impeachment could go forward in parallel.

It does, but that is if the President objects to the cabinet and VP’s decision. Were that to happen the Democrats in Congress would just string the process out until after 20th so that Biden was then President. Crucially, Pence would remain (acting) President while the process was followed.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

Analysis of the police response compared to protests in 2014 about police brutality and murder against people of colour. It’s hard to disagree with what is said.

Actually I'd say it's very easy to disagree with some of what is said there. Her description of the police actions in Baltimore in 2014 - well, that's her personal experience - and it does sound like an awful experience - so I can't disagree with that part of what she says.

But the problem is, she (perhaps, correctly) identifies that the police response yesterday in the capitol was very different and then (incorrectly) automatically assumes that the difference is entirely due to racism. That logic doesn't follow. There are many possible reasons why the police response yesterday was apparently so mild. Different police department in a different state following its own procedures (remember, in the US, states have a lot of autonomy in their policing)? Police having learned lessons from previous mistakes, including the BLM protests? Police being completely unprepared and outnumbered (maybe due to incompetence by someone, maybe due to that particular force just not being set up for this kind of situation)? Maybe there was an element of racism. Maybe there wasn't. You just can't know what the reason was without more investigation, and it's not right to just assume it.

She also makes claims about whites acting like black voters don't count - this is not consistent with the reality that some blacks do support Trump and voted for him, and at least one very prominent Proud Boys organiser is hispanic. Again this speaks to the speaker in that video drawing conclusions without evidence.

And finally of course - we now know that police did in fact shoot one of the demonstrators yesterday and that demonstrator subsequently died.

 

[edwin_m]

For whatever reason, the police behaved with relative restraint here, and the seat of government was invaded. It would be possible, but I believe totally wrong, to draw the conclusion that the much tougher line taken with the BLM protestors was the correct one.

 

[berneyarms]

It was an absolutely disgrace yesterday, I think we all saw this coming. It's NO good saying there was no fraud etc etc and trying to swept it under the carpet. what should have been done in the first place was allow most of the court cases to actually go ahead and present the evidence, however most the case were throw out because of other issues like too early, too late, not the right standing. The Hunter Biden investigation was told there nothing to it, but something is being looked into. Then the fact the main news media keep by pass anything trump says etc They were happy to push stuff out for the last 5 years...

These people believe now there is something being covered up because of all that and more taking place.

Trump may have lost house, senate and the white house all within a 4 years and the first since 1932, lets be clear here in 1932 it was a total blow out. margins of like 400 in the EC, 90 in the House. The best Biden was able to get was match trump performance 4 years ago and get to a tie in the senate. Biden victory in was down to 45k votes, in the EC in the Senate 30'000 votes.

What I'm trying to get here is some people still think that's the end of it, do not ignore the fact alot of people still like Trump or his policy, these warning signs mean as others have said if they can find a Tony Blair well... you better watch out.

The police were told to scale it back. I think if it wasn't for the issues last year it would have been more heavy handed.

Let's not kid ourselves about the reasons for yesterday.

The US population have been fed a constant stream of lies and conspiracy theories from Donald Trump, "radio shockjocks" and other media outlets, which started back during Obama's presidency (if not earlier), and frankly that has just mushroomed out of control on social media. A sizeable number of people believe the nonsense (such as QANON etc.) without question. That's a real problem for any society to deal with.

Yesterday, quite frankly what we saw from Trump was sedition.

I think you're being a tad disserving to most people's intelligence in your assertion that people think yesterday would be the end of this - I think that most people realise that there is a real problem.

While there is a certain element of US population that is not going to change their view, there is a clear need to focus on those elements of US society that do feel ignored and left behind.

Biden has a hell of a job ahead of him, but dampening down the constant noise and nonsensical rhetoric from the White House has to be a starting point.

 

[Typhoon]

Mick Mulvaney has resigned from the Trump administration (special envoy to Northern Ireland and former Chief of Staff at the White House.

"I can't stay here, not after yesterday," Mulvaney said in an appearance on CNBC. "You can't look at that yesterday and say I want to be a part of that in any way shape or form."

(https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/poli...p-administration-i-cant-stay-here/ar-BB1cyoS3.

When Trump insiders flee the sinking ship, the message must be clear to mainstream Republicans, who support their party and their country, that the Trump MAGA 'dream' is over; that it is time to move on - swiftly - with some established, trusted figures to distance themselves with the current 'President'; that the infantile threats of Eric (below) should be treated with contempt and the party leadership support those who supported the vote not the violence. OK, they may lose the votes of the Proud Boys but I cannot see them getting the votes of the suburban women and the golf cart retirees they missed this time if they don't stand up to lawlessness. And our Prime Minister should make it clear to Trump that he is not welcome here (privately, of course).

Eric Trump -

"I will personally work to defeat every single Republican Senator / Congressman who doesn't stand up against this fraud - they will be primaried in their next election and they will lose," tweeted the son of the 45th president of the United States.

. https://edition.cnn.com/2021/01/06/politics/eric-trump-republicans-2022/index.html. Mind you, he is not exactly famed for his industry.

 

[najaB]

The US population have been fed a constant stream of lies and conspiracy theories from Donald Trump, "radio shockjocks" and other media outlets, which started back during Obama's presidency (if not earlier), and frankly that has just mushroomed out of control on social media.

It goes back at least as far as Bush - "truthiness" - if not further.