Rank a TOC's rolling stock from best to worst

[43096]

Have to admit I’m a little surprised by the EMR 158s feeling less claustrophobic than the FGW HSTs - at least the MK3s had a few tables to break up the monotony.

I wonder if that's to do with the ridiculously tinted windows on the FGW HSTs and the WorstGroup colours vomited all over the place?

 

[py_megapixel]

* the seats are perfectly good, far better than Pendolino or IEP. Just not as good as an IC70.

I couldn't disagree more.
An IC70 has no support for your head (so you can't lean back), it's angled oddly oddly causing you to slouch, and on some of them it feels like you're sinking into it in a horrible sort of way. Granted, most of this experience comes from the ones in a 158, the Mk3s might be better.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Have to admit I’m a little surprised by the EMR 158s feeling less claustrophobic than the FGW HSTs - at least the MK3s had a few tables to break up the
monotony.

Possibly the bright colours? I prefer the "small headrest" IC3000 that ATW used, though, it does make a difference to the claustrophobia issue and they are no less comfortable.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 Jan 2021 ==

I couldn't disagree more.
An IC70 has no support for your head (so you can't lean back), it's angled oddly oddly causing you to slouch, and on some of them it feels like you're sinking into it in a horrible sort of way. Granted, most of this experience comes from the ones in a 158, the Mk3s might be better.

Class 158 seats aren't IC70s.

 

[py_megapixel]

Class 158 seats aren't IC70s.

My mistake - though they do look rather similar.

Whatever they are, I don't like them. (I like the ironing boards even less FWIW)

 

[43055]

The ex-LNER ones are very, very nice, better seats than IC70s for a start. (I think the seats are the same as the XC ones).

They are indeed the same in both classes (XC & EC) - seats by Primarius.

Personally I quite like the older seats that the EMT sets had but I do like the seats on the XC sets.

Have to admit I’m a little surprised by the EMR 158s feeling less claustrophobic than the FGW HSTs - at least the MK3s had a few tables to break up the monotony.

I wonder if that's to do with the ridiculously tinted windows on the FGW HSTs and the WorstGroup colours vomited all over the place?

The way the every seat is basically airline with little legroom and about 1 table a coach. The tinted windows don't help that much whereas on a EMR 158 there are more tables and legroom. For GWR I would prefer the standard class in a 800 to a HST but first class was way better on a HST.

 

[Halish Railway]

Here’s my Northern list:

1. 170s
2. 195/331s
3. 158s
4. 333s
5. 323s
6. 156s
7. 153/155s
8. 150s (With Chapman seats)
9. 319s
10. 150s (With Ashbourne seats)

 

[bramling]

Don't understand the hatred I've seen so far of the 455/456 on SWR. I think they have to be one of the best refurbs of an existing stock I've ever seen, sensible well-designed layout for metro stock with the longitudinal seating sections. Makes them feel much newer than they are.

Compared to Southern 455s, or getting stuck with modern stock not designed for Metro (eg 377), I'd definitely take the SWR 455/456.

Funny you say that, as I prefer the Southern 455s, which seems to be a minority view!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 Jan 2021 ==

There's something I really like about the SWR 455/456s, I've never been quite able to put my finger on it. I wouldn't want to travel to Weymouth in one over a 444, but they just have a real charm to them.
They're not something I grew up with, I don't think I've travelled more than a dozen times on them.
Something about them feels very real and raw, you can feel the train doing all the work... it's hard to articulate. Nothing fancy going on, just outer suburban trains doing what they were designed to do, and doing it well.
Their seating layout is great for the routes they work also, I wish we would see similar layouts on metro trains instead of 3+2.

This will probably sound mad, however the SWR 455s have a label in the gangway door window on the cab front, IIRC the standard overhead live wires warning or something like that. When one of these trains is approaching the platform, for a moment and from a distance this always reminds me of the two whites on the blind one occasionally used to see on the front of something like a 4-Cig.

 

[Railperf]

Greater Anglia
755 - amazing acceleration + great design
745 - better acceleration + great designs. both flirts are major steps forward with accessibility
360 - best travelling environment apart from the flirts. considerably higher acceleration from the 321 makes it great whenever there's disruption
321 - I do quite like the renatus units because apart from the eyesore lighting the interior has been improved a lot. sounds quite nice
317 - as the 321 but prm upgrades weren't as good in my opinion
379 - never ridden on these. seem like a bit of a failure with all the coupler issues. great overall reliability however
and the absolute trash heap failures, the 720
the software is a failure, every single day on my commute back I hear drivers constantly complaining about these. interiors are cheap rubbish, overall design is rubbish, a step backward is reliability and basically no improvement with acceleration over the 360s

Sorry... the 379s are way better than the 317's and 321's in all areas - performance, reliability and passenger comfort. On par acceleration to the 360s - it is a shame these were not used to their full 100mph performance potential. In my humble opinion they shoukd have been used on the 90/100mph. GEML. 321s would have been better on the 80/90mph WAML.

 

[306024]

Sorry... the 379s are way better than the 317's and 321's in all areas - performance, reliability and passenger comfort. On par acceleration to the 360s - it is a shame these were not used to their full 100mph performance potential. In my humble opinion they shoukd have been used on the 90/100mph. GEML. 321s would have been better on the 80/90mph WAML.

Indeed they are, but as @greaterangrier has never been on one that makes them difficult to rank.

321s wouldn’t get very far on the WAML without huge investment in DOO fixed equipment at many stations, so that’s never an option, never mind the big increase in driver training that would be needed.

 

[BogiePicker]

TPE

185 double set - they look so sleek when coupled together, as well. Nice environment when empty in middle carriage. Found it quite well insulated, noise-wise, when an engine was accidentally cut off.
802 - feels quite solid and high-level, especially with lighting of seat reservations.
Mk 5 - love the 68. It is not far behind the 802.
185 single set - in agreement with previous post


Not tried 397 yet. Missed connection by thirty seconds!

 

[Halish Railway]

TPE

185 double set - they look so sleek when coupled together, as well. Nice environment when empty in middle carriage. Found it quite well insulated, noise-wise, when an engine was accidentally cut off.

It’s very common for a 185 to run with an engine isolated in order to save fuel. Realistically 2/3 engines running is more than enough as a result of having the same engine as a Voyager/Adelante.

 

[Jamesrob637]

For Northern my favourite/the best is (COVID times notwithstanding)

Any service booked 6-car

For TPE my favourite/the best is (COVID times notwithstanding)

Any service booked 6-car



For Northern my least favourite/the worst is (COVID times notwithstanding)

Any service booked 2-car. I'd rather have 4 older carriages than a 2-car 195 even though it doesn't exactly represent twice the capacity. These are slowly dwindling but nonetheless do still exist - 2021 should combat this issue with the 769s and more cascaded Sprinters.

For TPE my least favourite/the worst is (COVID times notwithstanding)

Any service booked 3-car. Fortunately these are in the minority now.

 

[spotify95]

On a 7 car you can fill first class both weekday and weekend but it probably depends on if there is a breakfast service on.

Here is my EMR list:
HST - Not been on the LNER sets but the ex EMT sets were very nice.
222 - Nice units just needs some seat covers replacing.
158 - Decent units. Plenty of room between the seats and they don't feel as claustrophobic as other trains with the same seats (GWR HST's)
153 - Cracking little units. Got me to work and back many times and was always warm in the winter.
156 - I would say they were on par with the 153's but the ex GA 156's bring it down as they don't look that well looked after internally. Even some bay's of 4 don't have tables which I find a bit strange.

and XC:
HST - Can't fault them
220/221 - I do like them but I think it is time they needed a good refresh like with Virgin/Avanti 221's
170 - Somehow everyone else want's to use the same service as me when I get a 170 to Burton from Birmingham. Probably also could go with a bit of a refresh on the seats.

More often than not, especially early morning (e.g. 0712 from WEL to LEI) the 4 cars of standard (pre COVID) would fill up much quicker than the 3 cars of 1st. HSTs had 5 standard cars and 3 first cars. In my opinion, Coach F should have half of its 1st removed in a 222.

I might have rated the 222s higher if the following were fixed:
1) Metallic windows in carriages. Yes, the windows of 222s have metal film/RF screening, making phone signals nonexistent and putting excessive pressure on the WiFi. The 43s and Mk3s do not have this problem, I don't use the WiFi on a Mk3 because I can get up to 70Mbps on 4G. The latter is impossible on a 222 due to the RF screening, and 0.1Mbps WiFi is completely useless.
2) Interior revamp, the interiors on the 222s aren't looking their best, with rips/tears/wear on the seats and windows that are filling up with condensation. At least the seats are 2+2 though.
3) interior lighting. Small lamps in the overhead luggage racks that have different color temperatures as the bulbs are replaced. Harsh looking light (possibly CFL?). Inefficient halogen lamps above the central walkway. The fluorescent tubes and LED lamps (in the vestibule ends) in the Blue EMT Mk3s are much better.

As things stand, the 43s and Mk3s are much better than a 222 due to the above points (especially the Faraday Cage Windows).

 

[Phillipimo]

Merseyrail

507
508

or maybe

508
507

I can't decide!

 

[fgwrich]

More often than not, especially early morning (e.g. 0712 from WEL to LEI) the 4 cars of standard (pre COVID) would fill up much quicker than the 3 cars of 1st. HSTs had 5 standard cars and 3 first cars. In my opinion, Coach F should have half of its 1st removed in a 222.

I might have rated the 222s higher if the following were fixed:
1) Metallic windows in carriages. Yes, the windows of 222s have metal film/RF screening, making phone signals nonexistent and putting excessive pressure on the WiFi. The 43s and Mk3s do not have this problem, I don't use the WiFi on a Mk3 because I can get up to 70Mbps on 4G. The latter is impossible on a 222 due to the RF screening, and 0.1Mbps WiFi is completely useless.
2) Interior revamp, the interiors on the 222s aren't looking their best, with rips/tears/wear on the seats and windows that are filling up with condensation. At least the seats are 2+2 though.
3) interior lighting. Small lamps in the overhead luggage racks that have different color temperatures as the bulbs are replaced. Harsh looking light (possibly CFL?). Inefficient halogen lamps above the central walkway. The fluorescent tubes and LED lamps (in the vestibule ends) in the Blue EMT Mk3s are much better.

As things stand, the 43s and Mk3s are much better than a 222 due to the above points (especially the Faraday Cage Windows).

There's something else I can't stand about the 222s, and it is a Bombardier thing as the 220 & 221s suffer from the same thing. The stupid table leg design with the raised base that catches your feet. It's a small thing, but if your sat at a table and catch it when you get up it is rather annoying! (That and they're usually lose, which rattles on some units).

 

[py_megapixel]

There's something else I can't stand about the 222s, and it is a Bombardier thing as the 220 & 221s suffer from the same thing. The stupid table leg design with the raised base that catches your feet. It's a small thing, but if your sat at a table and catch it when you get up it is rather annoying! (That and they're usually lose, which rattles on some units).

I have a minor gripe with the 22x fleet as well. The CrossCountry ones at least have this sort of cream-coloured enamelled coating on the seat backs and the fold down tray-tables. This chips off really easily, exposing the surface beneath, which is a much darker colour, and give the impression that the seats are rusting.

Also, something in their design has a resonant frequency which exactly matches the engine at one specific point in the acceleration, so every time the train accelerates, there is this buzzing vibration sound for a couple of seconds a certain amount of time after the engine revvs up. A very minor thing I know, but it gets on my nerves.

 

[Bletchleyite]

22x were the UK's first go at a high-power underfloor-engined InterCity DEMU. It's understandable that there are shortcomings, and the 80x is a considerably improved version of the same sort of thing. (The least said about 180s the better).

 

[mememachine175]

Northern for me -
158s - solid, overall nice trains. Still feel modern for their age. Best BREL DMU I think.
170s - nice modern era DMU's, shame about acceleration though.
323s - Comfy, speedy and reliable, great motors, still look and feel modern. I can't complain.
319s - I like the seats and the motor sounds, but the reliability is a ? mark though. Mind you what did they expect when they have had no mechanical work or enhancements done on them (at least not that I know of)
156s - A bit noisy, but I don't mind them too much.
150s - Noisy, slow but have better seats than the Civity so goes above it
195/331 - look cheap & old fashioned to me, not very well styled at all very basic for a new train.
153s - are everything that is wrong with our railway and shows an era of underinvestment, compromise, grime and sluggishness.


What is so unreliable on a 319 as I've heard many people slating the relaibility without actually saying what goes wrong on them.


TfW
158's once again best BREL DMU, need I say more?
MK4
170 once refurbed
175's once Refurbed
769
150
153

and the elephant in the room...
142/143

175s are TfWs best units. There is literally nothing better, even if they do have the odd fire.

 

[43096]

22x were the UK's first go at a high-power underfloor-engined InterCity DEMU. It's understandable that there are shortcomings, and the 80x is a considerably improved version of the same sort of thing. (The least said about 180s the better).

180s have the better interior of the three types, though, which is what the passenger notices.

 

[py_megapixel]

175s are TfWs best units. There is literally nothing better, even if they do have the odd fire.

I think the 158s are actually significantly nicer. The 175 wins out in the door mechanism and I think it looks nicer too, but the 158s have more comfortable seats, better layout and just feel a lot more "premium" plus they don't feel so much like they've been left to rot inside in the same way...

I think many passengers could be fairly easily convinced that a TfW 158 is newer than a TfW 175, even though it obviously isn't

 

[fgwrich]

180s have the better interior of the three types, though, which is what the passenger notices.

I fully agree with that. The only oddity I find with the 180 fleet was the idea of the placement of the FC Vehicle. Something the Pendolino / Voyager fleet had right, then you would have had a nice barrier between FC and Standard with the onboard shop counter.

 

[Energy]

(The least said about 180s the better).

180s would be good had they not been made by Alstom, then they might not catch fire.

 

[sd0733]

I think many passengers could be fairly easily convinced that a TfW 158 is newer than a TfW 175, even though it obviously isn't

To be fair following the ATW refurb the actual interior of the 158s is more modern than the 175s as at the time pretty much everything the passenger saw to all intents and purposes was brand new.

For the current TfW fleet i would say:
TfW refurb 158 (unless its a hot day! The ability to walk through the units wins out over a 175 although it does make the cabs a bit cramped)
TfW refurb 175
ATW interior 158
ATW Interior 175
TFW refurb 153
Ex-EMT 153
ATW interior 150
ATW interior 143
Ex-Anglia 153

 

[Logan Carroll]

Scotrail - Argyle/North Clyde stock
318
320
334

 

[Parallel]

To be fair following the ATW refurb the actual interior of the 158s is more modern than the 175s as at the time pretty much everything the passenger saw to all intents and purposes was brand new.

I think both the TfW 158s and the 175s are excellent trains for regional services. The TfW refurbished 175s have brought the units up to a high standard. The TfW 158s have been good from a passenger point of view ever since Arriva did the refurb. The 175s have great leg room, the most comfortable seats on the network in my opinion, a good mixture of table and airline seats.

 

[sd0733]

I think both the TfW 158s and the 175s are excellent trains for regional services. The TfW refurbished 175s have brought the units up to a high standard. The TfW 158s have been good from a passenger point of view ever since Arriva did the refurb. The 175s have great leg room, the most comfortable seats on the network in my opinion, a good mixture of table and airline seats.

They definitely do look to a high standard, it makes a big difference with the additional power points/usbs on the fleet to bring them up to date, a few passengers even thought the refurb 153s are new!
The only faults with the 175s (apart from the fact they are far too small in normal times) are the wobbling tables at certain speeds and the extremely scratched and scuffed vestibules which for some reason doesnt seem to see much if any attention at refurbisment

 

[Bletchleyite]

180s would be good had they not been made by Alstom, then they might not catch fire.

Yeah, they were good for the passenger (apart from a couple of things e.g. small luggage racks, loose wobbly seats and a decidedly jumpy ride) but of very, very poor quality under the solebar.

 

[bramling]

Merseyrail

507
508

or maybe

508
507

I can't decide!

The compressor sounds nicer on the 508s! (ISTR 508s have two compared to one on a 507, presumably a legacy of their 4-car days?)

 

[Bletchleyite]

The compressor sounds nicer on the 508s! (ISTR 508s have two compared to one on a 507, presumably a legacy of their 4-car days?)

The other difference the 508s used to have was on the doors and more subtle - 508s had blanked-over passenger door controls, and also a blanked-over panel at about chest height on the door itself where the old manual handles went on the original PEP design, 507s had neither. However, when the crew panels were fitted at the passenger doors, they appear to have removed half the blanked-over panels from the 508s to fit to the 507s, and fitted the panel on there.

 

[GEC465]

With LNER I put
IET
IC225

GWR:
IET
Night Riviera
Networker Turbos
387s
158
HST
150