Rank a TOC's rolling stock from best to worst

[ScotRail158725]

I don't understand why you guys rate the 385 so low. It's my favourite train that isn't the 318/320 stock because of how quiet, fast and the big tables. The 318/320 are my favourite seeing as I grew up with them and going 90mph in the middle coach of one with the windows open has an amazing sound

385s are beaten by diesels. id always go for a bash on a diesel because they have loud engines. 318s/320s are loud the only real downside is seating window alignments but they beat 385s for being louder, 380s and 334s have much better interiors than the 385s hence why they beat them

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

385s are beaten by diesels. id always go for a bash on a diesel because they have loud engines. 318s/320s are loud the only real downside is seating window alignments but they beat 385s for being louder, 380s and 334s have much better interiors than the 385s hence why they beat them

Surely you understand that most people prefer a quiet train though.

 

[py_megapixel]

I don't think the 156's are falling apart at all. They were the nicest trains on Northern after their previous refurbishment.

There have been many threads over the years about severe corrosion issues on the 156s. They are after all 35 year old rolling stock, so it's to be expected...
of course they're also horribly loud inside, and have awful bright lighting these days, but that's a different issue.

 

[mic505]

What happened to the 319?
Bit early for a 769 I suppose, but they are going to be the same as 319 to a casual passenger.

I don't think anyone likes the 319's lol.

 

[DB]

I don't think anyone likes the 319's lol.

They are basically the electric version of the 150! The fact that they are twice the length and don't have the noisy underfloor engines makes them slightly less unpleasant, but that's the best that can be said about them.

I notice that everyone who has commented on Northern places the 150s right at the bottom!

 

[yorksrob]

There have been many threads over the years about severe corrosion issues on the 156s. They are after all 35 year old rolling stock, so it's to be expected...
of course they're also horribly loud inside, and have awful bright lighting these days, but that's a different issue.

So long as I don't fall through the floor, corrosion issues don't really affect me !

As for noise, my mp3 player cures a lot of ills.

 

[FQ]

I’d have a rather different order:
HST
158
334
380
170
318
320
385
156

Similar to me then:
HST
380
385
334
170
158
318
320
156

And for SWR:
444
158
159
450
707
458
456
455

 

[yorksrob]

They are basically the electric version of the 150! The fact that they are twice the length and don't have the noisy underfloor engines makes them slightly less unpleasant, but that's the best that can be said about them.

I notice that everyone who has commented on Northern places the 150s right at the bottom!

The 319's are blessed with not having the awful 3+2 airline seating that many Northern 150's have, which makes them a considerably less cramped travelling environment.

 

[py_megapixel]

So long as I don't fall through the floor, corrosion issues don't really affect me !

As for noise, my mp3 player cures a lot of ills.

fair enough

 

[mic505]

They are basically the electric version of the 150! The fact that they are twice the length and don't have the noisy underfloor engines makes them slightly less unpleasant, but that's the best that can be said about them.

I notice that everyone who has commented on Northern places the 150s right at the bottom!

Very outdated interior imo. Poor acceleration, unreliable and unsuitable with other TOC's. On the whole they were specificially built and suited for the Thameslink route only.

 

[py_megapixel]

unsuitable for Northern (more 323's to replace them)

And it's for that exact reason that they'll be gone from Northern, we're assured, at some indeterminate point in the future. (What they're waiting on is the software issues on the West Mids 730s to be resolved so that they can displace the 323s on the cross city line and come up north instead)

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Northern

158
170
331
195
156
155
156
333
323
319
150

 

[atomicdanny]

From Personal opinion (although some bias because I like the networkers)

Southeastern

• Class 395
• Class 465/0 /1 &/2 + Class 466
• Class 375 / Class 377 (all except the 375/9)
• Class 465/9
• Class 375/9 (the seats basically)
• 
  
• (insert a huge gap here...)
• 
  
• Class 376

 

[Parallel]

GWR:

Class 387 - I think they look great and are nice modern units for commuting services
HST - Refurbished well and fairly well suited to current duties between Cardiff - Penzance
---
Class 158 - Always one of my favourite classes and GWR's have comfortable seats, but the refurbishment has made them feel a bit dingy. Aircon not very reliable in summer
Class 80x - Not bad but I find them a bit rattley and the seats uncomfortable. An average offering for intercity services
Class 143 - GWR's examples are quite good, clean and well looked after, however the legroom is poor and some of the facilities are now somewhat outdated
Class 150 - Refurbished well so not bad, better than most others of the same class operated by other TOCs but they are still noisy and not that enjoyable to travel on
---
Class 165 - Noisy, uncomfortable seating, cramped but now have a reliable air cooling system and at least most are clean.
Class 166 - Run down and in need of a refurbishment. Broken fixtures and fittings. Cramped, uncomfortable seating. Noisy. Unreliable air con. At least the carpets were replaced as they were on the grim side before.

Overall, GWR have generally really improved their stock over the last 10 years. It's good that the majority of the stock (other than the Turbos and some of the pacers) is new or has been refurbished/refreshed. It's made a difference from a passenger's point of view.


Transport for Wales:

Class 158 - Good quality refurbishment under ATW and another one under TfW.
Class 175 - Very comfortable seating and excellent leg room. A lot better since being refurbished
Premier Service with MKIII coaches - Similar to the 158s but felt a bit more dated
---
Class 143 - The same as GWR's 143s but more run down.
Class 170 - Comfortable enough units but in need of an internal refurbishment.
Class 142 - A bit dingy and dirty but otherwise adequate for the services they operated in most cases.
Class 769 - Haven't travelled on one yet but they look similar to the 150s but with more carriages so I'm putting them here for now.
Class 150 - Need a refurbishment to be honest, they feel quite run down. Noisy engines and often smell of fumes and cover long distance services sometimes.
Class 153 - Limited capacity when operating on their own but also have poor legroom. The refurbished ones are slightly better but I would avoid them if I could if coupled to a non-153 unit.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I don't think anyone likes the 319's lol.

I do.
4-car beats 3-car any day, and also a noisy 2-car 150.

 

[mic505]

I do.
4-car beats 3-car any day, and also a noisy 2-car 150.

If a 319 turns up. Reliability has been poor, since they arrived to Northern in 2015. Won't beat a 3-car 323 in terms of acceleration and capacity, though.

 

[mspljd1990]

Might as well give my reasons for Northern's fleet.

Class 158 - An absolute icon of regional railways. Smooth, comfortable, looks good and that roar! Versatile too, can work any route.
Class 170 - A great addition to Northern. Smooth, clean and for a train that's nearly 20 years old, still feels modern. Shame they're only used for local stoppers.
Class 333 - As far as local commuter trains go they are perfect. Very sleek, quiet, and with good seating and legroom.
Class 323 - See above, but I'd say more outdated.
Class 156 - Like the 158, a staple of regional rail for decades and still reliable, but becoming a bit dated.
Class 195/331 - Good upgrade on the 321 but a bit bland looking, and not the most comfortable of interiors.
Class 153/155 - Never really minded them, preferable on local services in and around Leeds to 142s/144s/150s but very outdated now, and always unclean inside.
Class 150 - I've said many things about them on here, but rest assured, they should have gone before 142s/144s.

 

[NoMorePacers]

Northern

158 - Good interiors, sound nice, versatile and go-anywhere units.
156 - Ditto 158s although get docked points for their slower speed.
170 - Nice interiors, comfortable although their reliability is rather poor (for all the noise made about CAF's reliability these really aren't much better, on the face of it at least) and they shouldn't be running Harrogate Loop stopping services (I disagree with the notion that they only work local stoppers though - Sheffield-Hull is hardly all-shacks).
153/155 - I must be the only member of this forum to like these, although they're rather careworn and more sluggish than the others.
323 - Decent EMUs, seats are adequate for the services they work, make a nice noise.
195/331 - Very quick, interior is rather nice (seats are tolerable) but poor quality and rather shaky ride (doing one at top speed was about as bumpy as a Pacer at top speed).
333 - OK. Nothing else to say about them other than that.
319 - Slow, unreliable, poor condition overall.
150 - Dreadful. Absolutely dreadful. Bring back Pacers over these lumps (although they can keep 150s west of the Pennines for all I care ).

 

[route101]

Scotrail

318
320
385
380
334
HST
156
158
170

I have never been on the HST or the 158/170 though but this is just my opinion based on the units I grew up with

How have you avoided the Scotrail 170s?

Used to be flagship on Glasgow to Edinburgh.

My list:

HST
158
156
170
380
385
318
334
32-

 

[CardiffKid]

TFW

158
175 (175 will move up a tier once the referb is completed)
Mark 4
170
769
150
153
142/143

 

[221101 Voyager]

Northern for me -
158s - solid, overall nice trains. Still feel modern for their age. Best BREL DMU I think.
170s - nice modern era DMU's, shame about acceleration though.
323s - Comfy, speedy and reliable, great motors, still look and feel modern. I can't complain.
319s - I like the seats and the motor sounds, but the reliability is a ? mark though. Mind you what did they expect when they have had no mechanical work or enhancements done on them (at least not that I know of)
156s - A bit noisy, but I don't mind them too much.
150s - Noisy, slow but have better seats than the Civity so goes above it
195/331 - look cheap & old fashioned to me, not very well styled at all very basic for a new train.
153s - are everything that is wrong with our railway and shows an era of underinvestment, compromise, grime and sluggishness.

If a 319 turns up. Reliability has been poor, since they arrived to Northern in 2015. Won't beat a 3-car 323 in terms of acceleration and capacity, though.

What is so unreliable on a 319 as I've heard many people slating the relaibility without actually saying what goes wrong on them.


TfW
158's once again best BREL DMU, need I say more?
MK4
170 once refurbed
175's once Refurbed
769
150
153

and the elephant in the room...
142/143

 

[Bletchleyite]

I disagree that the 323 deserves to be anywhere other than on top, however. Despite being almost 30 years old now, a basic interior refurb has made it so that they still look, feel and sound modern, are reliable, and well-liked by passengers and staff. I once got chatting to a conductor on Northern who told me she'd rather work a 323 than either a 319 or a brand new 331! The only thing that lets them down is that the seats could do with more padding (and possibly reducing to 2+2 rather than 3+2) but I'm willing to give them a pass on that as the nature of their routes is such that most journeys are short.

I seem to recall a certain well-known guard (now driver) who posted on uk.railway said that Central Trains did actually want to reseat their 323s to 2+2 (in particular the ones that were then used on Liverpool-Birmingham services), but that WMPTE wouldn't let them.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 26 Dec 2020 ==

The 319's are blessed with not having the awful 3+2 airline seating that many Northern 150's have, which makes them a considerably less cramped travelling environment.

It's a shame Northern didn't get any of the "nice" 319s, i.e. the /4s (2+2 original Ashbourne seating) or /2s (2+2 Chapman seating) - both of those layouts are massively nicer than the original. I believe LNR got all the /2s?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 26 Dec 2020 ==

Anyway, one from me...

LNR (WMT):

350/4 (pre-refurb due to the posh 1st)
350/3 (as I prefer the green interior to the grey, and the new grey moquette is wearing badly)
350/1 and post-refurb /4
319/2 (Brighton Express 2+2 layout)
319/4 (Ashbourne 2+2 layout)
350/2
319/0 or /3 (I forget, but the 3+2 seated ones)
230

 

[yorksrob]

It's a shame Northern didn't get any of the "nice" 319s, i.e. the /4s (2+2 original Ashbourne seating) or /2s (2+2 Chapman seating) - both of those layouts are massively nicer than the original. I believe LNR got all the /2s?

Considering how much Northern must have spent on refurbishment, I'm surprised that the seating in the 3+2 150's has remained virtually untouched, whereas the far superior 158's and 156's were stripped out !

 

[prod_pep]

My attempt at Northern's fleet:

Class 323 - As good as a commuter EMU gets. Superb acceleration, interiors which are comfortable, modern and toasty warm in the winter. Seats are fine for shorter-distance trips and streets ahead of Ashbourne.
Class 331 - The only fault I have with these is the ride quality. Otherwise, they have excellent interiors and outstanding acceleration. I rather like the 331s overall.
Class 158 - Still my favourite class of DMU, although Northern's aren't the best internally. Despite this, they are leagues ahead of the other Sprinters.
Class 195 - See 331, with the drawback of being diesel and a lot less nimble. However, these are such a step forward from the awful Pacer and Sprinter classes they replaced in Liverpool I can't help but like them.
Class 170 - Internally excellent but they don't quite match the 158 in other aspects. I wouldn't mind seeing them on local routes a bit more.
Class 156 - The first of the classes I dislike. They haven't aged particularly well and aren't too pleasant internally, even after refurbishment for me. Much better than a 150, mind.
Class 155 - Similar to the 156 but even less appealing inside and very cramped. As a tall person I struggle with poor legroom. Not an overly bad train but lacking.
Class 153 - Same as the 155 but with a carriage fewer, adding to the space issues. I don't really rate these.
Class 319 - Oh dear. Abysmal acceleration, woeful reliability and grim interiors are three major blights. The day these terrible units finally go will be one of celebration.
Class 150 - Take a 319, remove two carriages and add diesel engines and associated sluggishness. One of the worst classes of train on Britain's railways and Northern's are the worst of the lot. They've got to go.

Omitted
Class 333 - The only Northern class I have never ridden but admittedly from photos they do look nice internally.

 

[py_megapixel]

Avanti West Coast
221
390

 

[ChristopherJ]

Southern:
Class 387 - perfect 2+2 layout, tables and AC chargers.
Class 377 - 2+2 seating in outer cars only!
Class 171 - nice seats but rumbly underfloor engines.
Class 313 - Coastway chav chariots.
Class 455 - Satan's own Metro train.

Thameslink:
Class 700 - horrible concrete seats.
Class 700 - no legroom or elbow room.
Class 700 - walkthrough cars like a freezer in winter.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Class 333 - The only Northern class I have never ridden but admittedly from photos they do look nice internally.

They have a very Germanic feel to them - very big and wide, a high, curved ceiling and an impeccably good ride. Excellent kit. Shame CAF couldn't do quite as well with the newer kit! (I believe Siemens did the running gear).

 

[py_megapixel]

They have a very Germanic feel to them - very big and wide, a high, curved ceiling and an impeccably good ride. Excellent kit. Shame CAF couldn't do quite as well with the newer kit! (I believe Siemens did the running gear).

There's also something rather DB-ish about the PIS screens which don't scroll smoothly and instead update all the text on the display at once. I know it's a very minor detail though...

 

[CeeJ]

From Personal opinion (although some bias because I like the networkers)

Southeastern

• Class 395
• Class 465/0 /1 &/2 + Class 466
• Class 375 / Class 377 (all except the 375/9)
• Class 465/9
• Class 375/9 (the seats basically)
• 
  
• (insert a huge gap here...)
• 
  
• Class 376

Agree with all, except...

I'd move 465/9 above the rest of the 465/466. The free First Class upgrade on metro routes!

 

[fgwrich]

They have a very Germanic feel to them - very big and wide, a high, curved ceiling and an impeccably good ride. Excellent kit. Shame CAF couldn't do quite as well with the newer kit! (I believe Siemens did the running gear).

Slightly diverting the thread for a moment, it's one reason why I really do like the HEX 332s and am sorry to see them go. The CAF Bodyshell of that era (also seen up to the late 2010s with the NI Railways C3K / C4K Fleet) is incredibly spacious and almost cathedral like. Frankly, I would consider it as one of the greatest modern EMU / DMU fleets going. Miles ahead of the rather dingy, and somewhat claustrophobic feeling body offered by the *STAR Fleet from Adtranz & Bombardier. Siemens did indeed provide the running gear for the 332 & 333 Fleets, while the NIR Fleet has MAN (A similar engine to the 769) main engine and a smaller Cummings Aux engine under the C3K, C4K is the same MTU + ZF set up as a 172. It's just a shame to see the newer CAF Stock is miles behind in quality terms. What happened to them?!