Northern Unit Refurbishments and depot allocations.

[Pit_buzzer]

It has no toilet so isn't PRM compatible so must be pared with a unit with a toilet preferably one with walk through access

Prm doesn't require a toilet. If it has one then it must be accessible but as the unit doesn't have one it doesn't apply.

 

[St. Paddy]

It has no toilet so isn't PRM compatible so must be pared with a unit with a toilet preferably one with walk through access

You don’t need a toilet to be PRM compliant. Class 345 and 717 don’t have toilets.

 

[OTRail]

I do wonder though if 209 will be fitted with a toilet to match the rest of the fleet and rely less on the 153s...

 

[superkev]

From the Class153 thread the Dft have granted dispensation for all Northerns 153s to continue till 31st May 2021.
They have to run coupled to compliant unit except on Barton on Humber branch
Numbers on Class153 thread.
K

 

[Wolfie]

It has no toilet so isn't PRM compatible so must be pared with a unit with a toilet preferably one with walk through access.

Having a toilet is nothing to do with PRM compliance albeit that if one is fitted it must be. There are lots of brand new PRM compliant trains that don't have toilets eg classes 345, 710.

 

[superkev]

Having a toilet is nothing to do with PRM compliance albeit that if one is fitted it must be. There are lots of brand new PRM compliant trains that don't have toilets eg classes 345, 710.

150209 was on works earlier in the year for some PRM work and repaint so I suspect it will have gained a toilet when it returns from Crewe. May be wrong.
K

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I do wonder though if 209 will be fitted with a toilet to match the rest of the fleet and rely less on the 153s...

150209 was on works earlier in the year for some PRM work and repaint so I suspect it will have gained a toilet when it returns from Crewe. May be wrong.
K

Indeed that's what the discussion over the last couple of days was about. Until 209 emerges from Crewe we won't know for sure, but if it's not too costly or difficult to fit one that would seem to be the best option on paper.

If for whatever reason a toilet module can't be fitted (or simply isn't), it's a toss-up as to which will cause more problems operationally: one unit without a toilet which could legally work solo but probably won't as it will be an "odd one out" with Northern as everything else has one; or a pair of hybrid 3-car units giving a total micro-fleet of 4 (along with the prototypes).

 

[158757]

150116 now has moquette seat covers leaving just 150125 and 150206 to be changed.

 

[978wta]

150209 was on works earlier in the year for some PRM work and repaint so I suspect it will have gained a toilet when it returns from Crewe. May be wrong.
K

if it were to have a toilet fitted then I’m sure it would have been done prior to any body corrosion repairs and it’s repaint as it would require the full removal of the window, a plate welding in then painting.

 

[3973EXL]

STP

02/01
Realtime Trains - FRGT 0158 Neville Hill T&R.S.M.D to Wolverton Centre Sidings
Realtime Trains - FRGT 1011 Heaton T&R.S.M.D. to Bristol Barton Hill W.R.D.
Heaton now VSTP from NL
Realtime Trains - 5V81 1027 Neville Hill T&R.S.M.D to Bristol Barton Hill W.R.D.
Realtime Trains - FRGT 1404 Newton Heath T.M.D. to Crewe C.S. (L&Nwr Site)

03/01
Realtime Trains - FRGT 1231 Neville Hill T&R.S.M.D to Crewe C.S.

07/01
Realtime Trains - FRGT 0949 Wolverton Centre Sidings to Allerton Depot

 

[SCFC14]

I seem to recall, some time ago, reading an article somewhere on London Overground that said toilets were not required because all journeys are less than 60 minutes. Whilst I cannot find anything online to back this up, if correct, then it would make perfect sense for the entire Northern fleet to be fitted with toilets rather than having a small subfleet for use on the few services less than 60 minutes - and the refurb is the perfect time to do it.
That said, it was also an Arriva commitment to split 24 150/2 sets to create 16 3 car sets and 209 presumably would have been one of them. Whilst it looks to have fallen by the wayside with nothing happening since it was first announced back in 2016, it could still be one idea to be looked at again.

 

[Peter A]

I seem to recall, some time ago, reading an article somewhere on London Overground that said toilets were not required because all journeys are less than 60 minutes. Whilst I cannot find anything online to back this up, if correct, then it would make perfect sense for the entire Northern fleet to be fitted with toilets rather than having a small subfleet for use on the few services less than 60 minutes - and the refurb is the perfect time to do it.
That said, it was also an Arriva commitment to split 24 150/2 sets to create 16 3 car sets and 209 presumably would have been one of them. Whilst it looks to have fallen by the wayside with nothing happening since it was first announced back in 2016, it could still be one idea to be looked at again.

If the rumour about some 156's coming to replace the 153's is true, then perhaps 9 156's will replace 9 150/2's to be spliced into other units to create 18 3 car 150's which would replace the 18 153's which are presently used to create three car trains

 

[warwickshire]

Wonder if most likely they will be the ex Anglia 156s to east Midlands railways especially as they themselves have been renumbered to 1569 series. Hence themselves , most likely being temporary renumbered to reflect this.
Sounds very workable though.

 

[St. Paddy]

STP

02/01
Realtime Trains - FRGT 0158 Neville Hill T&R.S.M.D to Wolverton Centre Sidings
Realtime Trains - FRGT 1011 Heaton T&R.S.M.D. to Bristol Barton Hill W.R.D.
Heaton now VSTP from NL
Realtime Trains - 5V81 1027 Neville Hill T&R.S.M.D to Bristol Barton Hill W.R.D.
Realtime Trains - FRGT 1404 Newton Heath T.M.D. to Crewe C.S. (L&Nwr Site)

03/01
Realtime Trains - FRGT 1231 Neville Hill T&R.S.M.D to Crewe C.S.

07/01
Realtime Trains - FRGT 0949 Wolverton Centre Sidings to Allerton Depot

The 0158 NL to Wolverton ran, interesting that it went via Crewe. I wonder if it attached something else en route

 

[3973EXL]

The 0158 NL to Wolverton ran, interesting that it went via Crewe. I wonder if it attached something else en route

It's basically the 0259 Newton Heath starting Neville Hill and when required to return, 0808 Wolverton - NH amended to terminate NL.
All run via Crewe.

 

[St. Paddy]

It's basically the 0259 Newton Heath starting Neville Hill and when required to return, 0808 Wolverton - NH amended to terminate NL.
All run via Crewe.

Thanks for that, just seemed an awful long way round

 

[3973EXL]

5V81 departed NL

1404 NH - Crewe Caped

 

[swt_passenger]

I seem to recall, some time ago, reading an article somewhere on London Overground that said toilets were not required because all journeys are less than 60 minutes. Whilst I cannot find anything online to back this up, if correct, then it would make perfect sense for the entire Northern fleet to be fitted with toilets rather than having a small subfleet for use on the few services less than 60 minutes - and the refurb is the perfect time to do it.

There is no general “60 minute rule” of course. It’s only a typical figure for the types of service such stock operates on, but it isn’t supported by any legislation or standards.

 

[superkev]

5V81 departed NL

I'm guessing it may be 158861 as the other unrefurbished 158791 is out on Leeds Knottingly.
Perhaps 791 will goto Crewe tomorrow.
Kev

 

[Peter A]

I'm guessing it may be 158861 as the other unrefurbished 158791 is out on Leeds Knottingly.
Perhaps 791 will goto Crewe tomorrow.
Kev

According to RTT 158861 is out and about around Hull today

 

[superkev]

According to RTT 158861 is out and about around Hull today

Interesting. I wonder what went to Bristol today.
K

 

[Gordonman]

150203 5Z79 NL - Wolverton
158853 5V81 NL - Barton Hill
5Z25 NH - Crewe LNWR Cancelled

 

[4REP]

The only trains now with abelio livery in service should be the 153s after 158861/791

 

[NorthernSpirit]

Indeed that's what the discussion over the last couple of days was about. Until 209 emerges from Crewe we won't know for sure, but if it's not too costly or difficult to fit one that would seem to be the best option on paper.

If for whatever reason a toilet module can't be fitted (or simply isn't), it's a toss-up as to which will cause more problems operationally: one unit without a toilet which could legally work solo but probably won't as it will be an "odd one out" with Northern as everything else has one; or a pair of hybrid 3-car units giving a total micro-fleet of 4 (along with the prototypes).

Northern should send 150209 onto the Barton - Cleethorpes circuit to free up the 153 that's gets used, and the bog problem becomes less so. Out of sight, out of mind.

 

[Neptune]

Northern should send 150209 onto the Barton - Cleethorpes circuit to free up the 153 that's gets used, and the bog problem becomes less so. Out of sight, out of mind.

That route is to eventually transfer to EMR so can’t see them wanting a micro fleet of 1.

 

[3973EXL]

5N42 NL - Crewe waiting to depart.

Dep 1212

 

[simon7929]

158791?

 

[cl19]

Definitely an old liveried unit passing Derby webcam

 

[jonesy3001]

Could be 791 since 861 is on Sheffield to Doncaster.

 

[L+Y]

Definitely an old liveried unit passing Derby webcam

Have any Serco/Abellio liveried units made it into service in 2021?