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I was looking up Whitelaws Buses based in Lanarkshire, no website. Only timetables on Bus Times.org, and no fare info. In this day and age, there's no excuse for not having a website. Are there any other bus companies with no website?
Autocar in Kent dont, quite a large company as well.
Absolutely ridiculous that they dont have a website - how on earth are they going to provide live tracking data from January??
Always have come across as a bit of a cowboy operator mind you.
There's plenty of bus companies with websites which contain no information of use.
For example, Stotts Buses of Oldham (https://www.stottsbuses.co.uk/) has a rather unprofessional looking website that's clearly been cobbled together using some site builder template. There is a very basic list of services, with no fare information. For timetables you're instructed to go to tfgm.com and enter the route number, and the provided link goes to the wrong place. A pretty pathetic offering.
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Autocar in Kent dont, quite a large company as well.
Absolutely ridiculous that they dont have a website - how on earth are they going to provide live tracking data from January??
Weirdly, they do have an email address registered with Kent Council, at the domain wealdenpsv.co.uk (is that a previous name for the company)?
However, that doesn't resolve to anywhere if I put it into a web browser, which seems to suggest that they own a domain name for for the purpose of email, but don't have a website associated with it!
Also registered with Kent, "Starline" (never heard of them) apparently don't - their registered email address is a free Hotmail one!
Weirdly, they do have an email address registered with Kent Council, at the domain wealdenpsv.co.uk (is that a previous name for the company)?
However, that doesn't resolve to anywhere if I put it into a web browser, which seems to suggest that they own a domain name for for the purpose of email, but don't have a website associated with it!
Also registered with Kent, "Starline" (never heard of them) apparently don't - their registered email address is a free Hotmail one!
why are bus companies so secretive about fares? how hard is it to put a fare table on the same page as the timetable. You just need the singles. They just seem to want to flog you passes and stuff.
C.W. Roffey of Wateringbury trades (or at least traded) as Starline (my information is a few years old), a few coaches and transits, at least one vehicle was liveried for 'Harry Roffey Holidays' (same address) whose website I could not access but apparently
Harry Roffey Holidays provides high quality, value for money day trips and longer breaks across the UK and Europe.
C.W. Roffey of Wateringbury trades (or at least traded) as Starline (my information is a few years old), a few coaches and transits, at least one vehicle was liveried for 'Harry Roffey Holidays' (same address) whose website I could not access but apparently
Where's that quoted from?
Their website throws what appears to be an Apache HTTP server error, at least it does when I try to access it... http://www.harryroffeyholidays.co.uk/
Where's that quoted from?
Their website throws what appears to be an Apache HTTP server error, at least it does when I try to access it... http://www.harryroffeyholidays.co.uk/
I've never heard of this website before but it does appear to be advertising genuine events (Beverley Knight in a musical play tonight, Hello Dolly with Imelda Staunton)
A lot of small operators only run tenders, so they probably think it’s the tendering authority’s place to run a website with timetables, which most will do, to some degree.
I was looking up Whitelaws Buses based in Lanarkshire, no website. Only timetables on Bus Times.org, and no fare info. In this day and age, there's no excuse for not having a website. Are there any other bus companies with no website?
Whitelaws did start to set up a site a few years ago but it was never finished and has now disappeared entirely although it is still listed on www.travelinescotland.com.
why are bus companies so secretive about fares? how hard is it to put a fare table on the same page as the timetable. You just need the singles. They just seem to want to flog you passes and stuff.
It may not be hard to put them up, but I question the value of simply posting a PDF. Given many people who could be described as irregular or non-bus and train users struggle to read a timetable, a faretable (especially given there are usually more points on a faretable than a timetable) is even harder. At least if you know when the bus goes you can ask the driver, whereas it's pretty pointless knowing how much it's going to cost you if you don't know when it's going to pick you up.
Centrebus do produce full faretables for each route on the same page as the timetable. Consider working out, without the aid of a calculator, the price of a Child Point to Point Weekly ticket from Grantham to Bottesford using this faretable: https://www.centrebus.info/media/2250/ft-x6_6-grantham-to-bottesford-27012020.pdf. Just don't post your answer, and how long it took you, in this topic
It may not be hard to put them up, but I question the value of simply posting a PDF. Given many people who could be described as irregular or non-bus and train users struggle to read a timetable, a faretable (especially given there are usually more points on a faretable than a timetable) is even harder. At least if you know when the bus goes you can ask the driver, whereas it's pretty pointless knowing how much it's going to cost you if you don't know when it's going to pick you up.
It seems to me this is more of a case of 'Won't Do' over 'Can't Do' from bus companies. Certainly for the major operators the data must be in electronic format somewhere so rather than websites insisting on only offering information about area, monthly and weekly tickets, surely it can't be beyond impossible to type in from/to and get at least a single fare.
It's even more relevant at this time when they are nearly all insisting you either pay by contactless or when using cash have the correct fare at hand. Despite what some people like to believe there are still many, many people without the facility to pay by a contactless method for multiple reasons and in many cases they also cannot have the correct fare when boarding because there's no way of finding the bloody thing in the first place.
Autocar in Kent dont, quite a large company as well.
Absolutely ridiculous that they dont have a website - how on earth are they going to provide live tracking data from January??
Always have come across as a bit of a cowboy operator mind you.
It may not be hard to put them up, but I question the value of simply posting a PDF. Given many people who could be described as irregular or non-bus and train users struggle to read a timetable, a faretable (especially given there are usually more points on a faretable than a timetable) is even harder. At least if you know when the bus goes you can ask the driver, whereas it's pretty pointless knowing how much it's going to cost you if you don't know when it's going to pick you up.
Centrebus do produce full faretables for each route on the same page as the timetable. Consider working out, without the aid of a calculator, the price of a Child Point to Point Weekly ticket from Grantham to Bottesford using this faretable: https://www.centrebus.info/media/2250/ft-x6_6-grantham-to-bottesford-27012020.pdf. Just don't post your answer, and how long it took you, in this topic
It may not be hard to put them up, but I question the value of simply posting a PDF. Given many people who could be described as irregular or non-bus and train users struggle to read a timetable, a faretable (especially given there are usually more points on a faretable than a timetable) is even harder. At least if you know when the bus goes you can ask the driver, whereas it's pretty pointless knowing how much it's going to cost you if you don't know when it's going to pick you up.
Fares are also arranged in stages, which may not tie in with timing points, which will add to the confusion, possibly causing disputes at the point of sale between driver and passenger.
Whatever is shown on the website needs to be the exact same information that is in the electronic ticket machine; these machines rarely produce information that can be readily put onto a website (typically each fare class has its own faretable, meaning multiple faretables for the same route). It is not just as simple as showing a faretable of single fares. The data is inputted to the ticket machine system primarily for the correct fares to be issued, tather than to produce a customer friendly faretable.
Manually converting the ticket machine faretables into a traditional 'customer friendly' faretable would be a huge administrative job (which bus companies can financially do without), with the added problem that errors would creep in between the data in the ticket machine and the human produced result.
The data feed connected to a journey planner will produce the fare for any given journey, such as on the Stagecoach website.
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Fares were very much simpler then, as was the LCT network I expect. Conducting staff then used the same faretable as the passengers, whereas now the Electronic ticket machine data is the source information.
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All sorts of people will be able to produce websites using the source data, just like the railway system. Provided the data is correct (which if it isn't would be a problem on a company website anyway) why would any operator bother with their own website unless they wished to bias the results towards their own operations in a competitive environment. I suspect that the smaller companies would have less reason or ability to do this.
Smith & Sons of Coupar Angus have a website which makes absolutely no mention of the bus services that they operate, instead leaving that to Angus Council.
Perhaps they're ashamed to admit that they run buses too?
Mere provision of information does not directly correlate with understanding what that information tells you, which is the point I was trying to make. Simply printing a few lists and saying "here's a faretable" doesn't really do anything other than tick a box.
Fares are also arranged in stages, which may not tie in with timing points, which will add to the confusion, possibly causing disputes at the point of sale between driver and passenger.
Whatever is shown on the website needs to be the exact same information that is in the electronic ticket machine; these machines rarely produce information that can be readily put onto a website (typically each fare class has its own faretable, meaning multiple faretables for the same route). It is not just as simple as showing a faretable of single fares. The data is inputted to the ticket machine system primarily for the correct fares to be issued, tather than to produce a customer friendly faretable.
Manually converting the ticket machine faretables into a traditional 'customer friendly' faretable would be a huge administrative job (which bus companies can financially do without), with the added problem that errors would creep in between the data in the ticket machine and the human produced result.
The data feed connected to a journey planner will produce the fare for any given journey, such as on the Stagecoach website.
I didn't have time to find a stop between farestages to confuse the issue further!
Your point does raise the question though: how is fare data input and output? After all, Travelline can generate an (albeit poor) PDF for public consumption from the TransXChange input format that the public can't read without the right program. Equally, one presumes it is possible to convert, say, an Excel spreadsheet into TransXChange format to upload that data to start with? I've probably explained that thought process very badly...
However, I'm aware that in less than a dozen messages we've veered off topic already. Perhaps a mod would be kind enough to get their electronic scissors out and move the relevant posts to a new thread, as this is doubtless worth a thread of its own.
Smith & Sons of Coupar Angus have a website which makes absolutely no mention of the bus services that they operate, instead leaving that to Angus Council.
Perhaps they're ashamed to admit that they run buses too?
They're not - they have a tab called "Scheduled bus services" which contains a photo of what to me looks like an Optare Versa - there's simply no actual information there!
I think you will find the number of people with a device that can download and view PDF files but without a calculator on that same device is in fact zero (even if the device doesn't have one, you can type a calculation into the Google search box and it does it).
It may not be hard to put them up, but I question the value of simply posting a PDF. Given many people who could be described as irregular or non-bus and train users struggle to read a timetable, a faretable (especially given there are usually more points on a faretable than a timetable) is even harder. At least if you know when the bus goes you can ask the driver, whereas it's pretty pointless knowing how much it's going to cost you if you don't know when it's going to pick you up.
I was travelling uncompanied by bus at the age of 11 and had no problem reading time and fare tables without any prior instruction. Are there really that many people with such a low reading age?
I was travelling uncompanied by bus at the age of 11 and had no problem reading time and fare tables without any prior instruction. Are there really that many people with such a low reading age?
I was travelling uncompanied by bus at the age of 11 and had no problem reading time and fare tables without any prior instruction. Are there really that many people with such a low reading age?
Unfortunately it's not reading age as such; it's much more a grasp of the concept and, I suspect, isn't something that's taught anymore. Plus the 24 hour clock is still something that people struggle with. Railways and airlines have similar issues.
I was travelling uncompanied by bus at the age of 11 and had no problem reading time and fare tables without any prior instruction. Are there really that many people with such a low reading age?
Unfortunately it's not reading age as such; it's much more a grasp of the concept and, I suspect, isn't something that's taught anymore. Plus the 24 hour clock is still something that people struggle with. Railways and airlines have similar issues.
@PeterC, I suspect you and I are of similar ages. When i was growing up there was a fare table next to the first seat on the right of an RT or RM and I would study it for lack of anything else to do to find whether walking to the next stop would, on occasion, save me a penny to enhance my pocket money. When I started teaching ('70s) timetables were on the CSE syllabus as something that was useful to know. With the revision of syllabuses, useful concepts like direct and indirect tax, utilities meters and timetables were replaced by a load of 'modern' stuff like topology, sets and symmetry (some of it was actually useful, much wasn't). Plus, many pupils now, especially those of people who devised these syllabuses, did not need to understand timetables, they just needed to phone a parent to say 'can you pick me up?' Plus, of course, with the push to pay 'contactless' it really doesn't matter what the fare is because you can (probably) pay it just by swiping.
I was looking up Whitelaws Buses based in Lanarkshire, no website. Only timetables on Bus Times.org, and no fare info. In this day and age, there's no excuse for not having a website. Are there any other bus companies with no website?
@PeterC, I suspect you and I are of similar ages. When i was growing up there was a fare table next to the first seat on the right of an RT or RM and I would study it for lack of anything else to do to find whether walking to the next stop would, on occasion, save me a penny to enhance my pocket money. When I started teaching ('70s) timetables were on the CSE syllabus as something that was useful to know. With the revision of syllabuses, useful concepts like direct and indirect tax, utilities meters and timetables were replaced by a load of 'modern' stuff like topology, sets and symmetry (some of it was actually useful, much wasn't). Plus, many pupils now, especially those of people who devised these syllabuses, did not need to understand timetables, they just needed to phone a parent to say 'can you pick me up?' Plus, of course, with the push to play 'contactless' it really doesn't matter what the fare is because you can (probably) pay it just by swiping.
Couldn't agree more. We could always call it 'Traveline'!
You’re correct on people paying by contactless - having set a little service run up earlier this year I find then majority of our passengers don’t really care what the fare is, they just present their card and that’s it job done. Possibly there’s an element of us ‘saving’ the service gets us a bit of leniency but even so, barely anyone actually asks what the fare is.
Bear Buses of Feltham, Middlesex. No twitter, website or even email. I’ve also heard stuff about them banning enthusiasts from uploading videos of their buses to youtube. Seems like they don’t want any online presence at all
We are aware of an issue with emails from the Forum to Microsoft-based email accounts (hotmail/outlook/live.com email addresses). This is being looked into currently, thanks for your patience meanwhile.