New 4-tier system for England

[Merseysider]

Isn't that what they said back in march?

Boris, 19th March: “We can turn the tide on this virus in 12 weeks”

UK, 40 weeks later: still waiting.

The only difference is that we now have tiers for months on end instead of a national lockdown.

 

[43096]

Genuine question - what's in it for Boris, Whitty etc. in prolonging the controlling as long as possible? I would have thought they too would be hoping for something like normality to return.

They'll hope to sell more copies of the books they will no doubt write, and more after-dinner speaking engagements. Don't forget that some people get off on controlling others...

 

[bramling]

There are over 1200 mutations known so far. It's truly remarkable that one of them should suddenly become such an issue as to require emergency legislation two days after parliament has stopped sitting. Especially given that this particular mutation has been known about since September.

Doesn't look at all dodgy, manipulative, or a determined effort to bypass parliament, does it?

There’s clearly something afoot. Whether it’s Brexit or simply that he needed something big to allow him to change the Christmas plan, or even something else, who knows. What they’re saying simply doesn’t make sense - if this new strain has been in circulation since September (I’m sure that’s what Whitty said?) then it’s odd that this has suddenly become such a critical issue at this particular time.

It's not the restrictions as such that bother me but the seemingly never ending changes. My area has gone from remaining in T2 in Tuesday's announcement to T3 in the announcement on Thursday to T4 in today's announcement. I simply cannot believe so much information has come to light in such a short period. Also the local authority area where I live happens to have an infectwiion rate lower than many T2 areas at the moment...

I'm gobsmacked at the closing of non-essential retail with less than 24 hours notice at the start of Christmas week. All that is going to do is put even more pressure on supermarkets in what is their busiest week of the year. There are already major concerns about customer numbers in supermarkets and adding in shoppers displaced from non-essential shops, plus those who will come in for a browse (because there's nothing else to do with everything else being closed) is going to make things worse.

It's going to be a difficult week ahead....

With Christmas now effectively dead in the water, would there be any scope simply for supermarkets to revert to normal opening hours for every day apart from Christmas Day, in order to dampen down some of what will be a mad rush next week?

It’s ridiculous that this area has been in three tiers in the space of less than a week.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

And it's becoming blatantly obvious that the agenda is being driven by a small number of people (Johnson and his advisors) - hence the obvious tactics to bypass parliament which have been used here.

Eric Honecker, Joseph Stalin, Pol Pot would be very impressed with this and no need to use coercion or force

 

[43096]

Surely, Boris Johnson has been advised by psychology experts before he has made his decision today? It's all very well listening to Whitty & Valence but they are not experts in human minds and human behaviours.

CJ

DimWhitty is allegedly Chief Medical Officer, so damn well should be taking into account mental health. All the evidence is that he couldn't give a stuff about anything other than Covid.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Genuine question - what's in it for Boris, Whitty etc. in prolonging the controlling as long as possible? I would have thought they too would be hoping for something like normality to return.

Witty has been Mr Pandemic all his career this is what he trained for

 

[yorkie]

Isn't that what they said back in march?

Pretty much; I remember Boris was on record as saying 12 weeks at one point until the virus was "beaten"; it was widely believed that locking down would make the virus actually disappear. (edit I see @Merseysider said the same thing above)

The guidance isn't clear. It says that outdoor gyms, pools, sports courts and facilities can remain open but also says that you can only exercise outdoors on your own, with your household or support bubble or with one other person.

It'll be interesting to see what the regulations say.

I don't think York will end up in Tier 4 but I am keen to learn the answer to this as one of the things that makes me anxious is the possibility of not being able to play sport again. And even if York doesn't end up in Tier 4, I think that the new rules for Tier 4 will be a strong indicator of what any potential third national lockdown would be like.

Anyway, I found this:

https://twitter.com/OliverDowden/status/1340372641736249351

2/ In Tier 4, outdoor sports venues can remain open and adult physical activity in households/bubbles and groups of 2 can continue - e.g. golf/tennis #grassroots sport outdoors can continue for Under 18s and disabled people.

So that means no football except for U18s and disabled people, which I think is ludicrous. The chances of transmission while playing football outdoors must be miniscule, and yet the benefit of such an activity is immense. It just shows how out of touch the people who make the rules are, and how silly the rules are.

DimWhitty is allegedly Chief Medical Officer, so damn well should be taking into account mental health....

Unfortunately many of the people who are calling for lockdowns who are from medical backgrounds seem to consider the main priority to be keeping elderly people alive as possible and disregarding mental health and just about any other factor.

 

[Darandio]

There’s clearly something afoot. Whether it’s Brexit or simply that he needed something big to allow him to change the Christmas plan, or even something else, who knows. What they’re saying simply doesn’t make sense - if this new strain has been in circulation since September (I’m sure that’s what Whitty said?) then it’s odd that this has suddenly become such a critical issue at this particular time.

Yes, September. This is all far too convenient.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Why would you expect the new rules not to pass?

A number of Tory backbenchers would vote against but the rest will vote for it and Labour would either agree or abstain

parliament not sitting and they don't have to consult just said they would best endeavours to do so when possible

 

[alistairlees]

For anyone concerned about train ticket refunds:
- all walk up tickets are refundable in full without a fee, wherever you bought them from
- advance tickets bought up to today, and for travel to or from tier 4 areas, or over the reduced xmas break, can have a 12 month credit / travel voucher, depending where you bought them from, with no fee applied. It might turn out broader than this.

 

[brad465]

Yes, September. This is all far too convenient.

Yes it's either a Brexit distraction and/or a desperate attempt to keep people onside because support is waning. As for continuing the whole approach I think it's a mixture of enjoying the tyrannical running of things and having gone so far with this strategy and an inability to admit they got it wrong (that last point I think is common in other countries).

 

[Kite159]

For anyone concerned about train ticket refunds:
- all walk up tickets are refundable in full without a fee, wherever you bought them from
- advance tickets bought up to today, and for travel to or from tier 4 areas, or over the reduced xmas break, can have a 12 month credit / travel voucher, depending where you bought them from, with no fee applied. It might turn out broader than this.

That's good.

Especially for "walk up" tickets as I would imagine a few have been sold solely to get a seat reservation on those TOCs who require everybody to have a reservation

 

[Ianno87]

Meanwhile at St Pancras, half the world seems to have turned up to get out of London before midnight...

https://twitter.com/HarrietClugston/status/1340383304143540227?s=20

Last train out of Saigon. Queue at St Pancras as we wait to board the Leeds bound train.

 

[bramling]

Yes it's either a Brexit distraction and/or a desperate attempt to keep people onside because support is waning. As for continuing the whole approach I think it's a mixture of enjoying the tyrannical running of things and having gone so far with this strategy and an inability to admit they got it wrong (that last point I think is common in other countries).

I don’t think BJ has once given any intimation or having been wrong at any stage through this. Even Sturgeon has done that at times.

His communications are dire. The way they keep referring to “rules” is a terrible way of attempting to secure mass buy-in. If he’d just come out today and said “I’m sorry” for this Christmas fiasco then that would have made some impact. Instead we just got the usual blustering bumbling performance, where he struggled to take simply questions - the one about shielding in particular had him completely brain-faded.

I dread to think what’s going to happen with the supermarkets now.

 

[43096]

Unfortunately many of the people who are calling for lockdowns who are from medical backgrounds seem to consider the main priority to be keeping elderly people alive as possible and disregarding mental health and just about any other factor.

I suspect if you asked those elderly people what they think and they'd probably rather take a risk and enjoy their lives seeing family, friends and going out and doing the things that make them want to get up in the morning. Just keeping them locked up like everyone else isn't doing them any good, either.

The behaviour of the government and its advisers is frankly beyond unconscionable.

 

[_toommm_]

I just had this message from a friend:


My sister works in Waitrose in Sussex and she said they had to close the doors because the stockpilers were stampeding

How predictable.

Tell her good luck for Monday to Thursday with the Xmas orders. The amount of turkeys ordered by customers is ridiculous, and I expect we’ll have a lot left from people who’ve ordered and now can’t use them due to Christmas being ruined.

 

[Bayum]

Be interesting to see how they enforce movement to and from Tier4 areas... Especially on trains and other public transport.

 

[Ianno87]

I don’t think BJ has once given any intimation or having been wrong at any stage through this. Even Sturgeon has done that at times.

His communications are dire. The way they keep referring to “rules” is a terrible way of attempting to secure mass buy-in. If he’d just come out today and said “I’m sorry” for this Christmas fiasco then that would have made some impact. Instead we just got the usual blustering bumbling performance, where he struggled to take simply questions - the one about shielding in particular had him completely brain-faded.

I dread to think what’s going to happen with the supermarkets now.

Politicians need to learn - it *is* OK to say sorry if you got something wrong and acknowledge it.

 

[Richard Scott]

Agree. There are people around here who want to deny the seriousness of the virus and therefore try to invent other reasons why restrictions are put in place.

That's because for almost everyone it isn't. For a teenager the flu is statistically more dangerous. For a small percentage of population it's potentially dangerous or is dangerous and we're talking less than 1%. If you think wrecking loads of people's businesses, putting many out of work, denying people cancer or other urgent treatment is fine then carry on but I don't.

 

[bramling]

Meanwhile at St Pancras, half the world seems to have turned up to get out of London before midnight...

https://twitter.com/HarrietClugston/status/1340383304143540227?s=20

It does seem to be the case that some of the things BJ does just make matters worse by creating artificially crowded situations.

 

[Ianno87]

Tell her good luck for Monday to Thursday with the Xmas orders. The amount of turkeys ordered by customers is ridiculous, and I expect we’ll have a lot left from people who’ve ordered and now can’t use them due to Christmas being ruined.

Hopefully some can at least go to homeless shelters or foodbanks.

 

[trainophile]

For anyone concerned about train ticket refunds:
- all walk up tickets are refundable in full without a fee, wherever you bought them from
- advance tickets bought up to today, and for travel to or from tier 4 areas, or over the reduced xmas break, can have a 12 month credit / travel voucher, depending where you bought them from, with no fee applied. It might turn out broader than this.

By that token it would appear that travel to/from tier 2 and 3 areas can still go ahead without any restrictions?

 

[Darandio]

Politicians need to learn - it *is* OK to say sorry if you got something wrong and acknowledge it.

Agreed. If they did then they would get an increase in respect from me, i'm sure i'm not alone there. As it stands they receive nil.

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

Be interesting to see how they enforce movement to and from Tier4 areas... Especially on trains and other public transport.

Presumably exactly how Police Scotland have enforced the no travel in/out of level 3/4 areas. No active road blocks or questioning but may find law-breakers through routine duties.

 

[_toommm_]

Hopefully some can at least go to homeless shelters or foodbanks.

Waitrose is a business is really good at donating to charities - we have a few charities collect excess food every night. I’m sure there’ll be homeless charities who’ll bite the hand off any excess turkeys.

 

[Darandio]

So you reckon the mutation is just "cooked up" do you?

Not cooked up, it manifested itself all on it's own back in September. We just decided to wait three months before claiming it's very dangerous, just in time for Christmas. Very convenient.

 

[SuspectUsual]

Somebody should really stop allowing Johnson to answer questions at these announcements. He’s a liability.

One of the first questions he just floundered and started the “uff uff uff” thing, and when a women told him she’d lost two close relatives he didn’t offer his sympathies- even the WhitBot managed that.

 

[Bikeman78]

It will probably be the DFT who will have to decide to allow refunds, even into the shape of credit notes/RTVs.

No doubt they will only go down the lines of "you can change it for free" which for some is as much use as a chocolate teapot

No doubt they will take months to decide, like they did with railcards.

 

[bramling]

I suspect if you asked those elderly people what they think and they'd probably rather take a risk and enjoy their lives seeing family, friends and going out and doing the things that make them want to get up in the morning. Just keeping them locked up like everyone else isn't doing them any good, either.

The behaviour of the government and its advisers is frankly beyond unconscionable.

It’s like one of my work colleagues who is clinically extremely vulnerable due to his medical history. Until the last month or so he has been very pro restriction, but even he has mellowed to the point of being past caring now. He’s gone from being slightly overweight in March to now being properly obese, and now has other health complications arising from that. Even Whitty seemed to acknowledge this today.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 19 Dec 2020 ==

Somebody should really stop allowing Johnson to answer questions at these announcements. He’s a liability.

No it’s just that his answers require a degree of literacy that the British population don’t have. That’s how Stanley would see it, anyway.

 

[SuspectUsual]

Waitrose is a business is really good at donating to charities - we have a few charities collect excess food every night. I’m sure there’ll be homeless charities who’ll bite the hand off any excess turkeys.

We (Coop) have had arrangements with FareShare for short life / excess stock from our warehouses for about 5 years now, and the majority of stores have local arrangements with charities or schools