New 4-tier system for England

[DB]

I think Boris Johnson has taken advantage of the fact the parliament is not sitting at the moment, and won't be until the first week in January.

Yes, it's truly remarkable that this mutant strain suddenly became such a pressing issue two days after parliament had stopped sitting...

 

[Hadders]

It's not the restrictions as such that bother me but the seemingly never ending changes. My area has gone from remaining in T2 in Tuesday's announcement to T3 in the announcement on Thursday to T4 in today's announcement. I simply cannot believe so much information has come to light in such a short period. Also the local authority area where I live happens to have an infectwiion rate lower than many T2 areas at the moment...

I'm gobsmacked at the closing of non-essential retail with less than 24 hours notice at the start of Christmas week. All that is going to do is put even more pressure on supermarkets in what is their busiest week of the year. There are already major concerns about customer numbers in supermarkets and adding in shoppers displaced from non-essential shops, plus those who will come in for a browse (because there's nothing else to do with everything else being closed) is going to make things worse.

It's going to be a difficult week ahead....

 

[DelayRepay]

The Tier 4 rules have been published:

Living safely with respiratory infections, including COVID-19

Guidance for living safely with respiratory infections, including coronavirus (COVID-19).

www.gov.uk

Clearly Christmas is not cancelled, as Christmas Tree Sellers have been designated essential retailers.

You could not make it up.

 

[Ianno87]

It's not the restrictions as such that bother me but the seemingly never ending changes. My area has gone from remaining in T2 in Tuesday's announcement to T3 in the announcement on Thursday to T4 in today's announcement. I simply cannot believe so much information has come to light in such a short period. Also the local authority area where I live happens to have an infectwiion rate lower than many T2 areas at the moment...

I'm gobsmacked at the closing of non-essential retail with less than 24 hours notice at the start of Christmas week. All that is going to do is put even more pressure on supermarkets in what is their busiest week of the year. There are already major concerns about customer numbers in supermarkets and adding in shoppers displaced from non-essential shops, plus those who will come in for a browse (because there's nothing else to do with everything else being closed) is going to make things worse.

It's going to be a difficult week ahead....

All these frequent changes are going to achieve is folks increasingly ignoring them.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 19 Dec 2020 ==

The Tier 4 rules have been published:

Living safely with respiratory infections, including COVID-19

Guidance for living safely with respiratory infections, including coronavirus (COVID-19).

www.gov.uk

Clearly Christmas is not cancelled, as Christmas Tree Sellers have been designated essential retailers.

You could not make it up.

The ****test job I ever had was trying to sell Xmas tress the week before Christmas. Everybody already has them by now is what I learned from it... (I sold about 3 total in 5 days)

 

[Mag_seven]

The Tier 4 rules have been published:

That looks like a straightforward "cut and paste" from the four week lockdown in November.

 

[Merseysider]

Anyone else feel like they've been hit so many times that they are now desensitised to it?

Completely.

There are certain things I’ll be doing this Christmas period regardless of what Boris says.

 

[Hadders]

All these frequent changes are going to achieve is folks increasingly ignoring them.

Agreed. It's getting ridiculous now.

The ****test job I ever had was trying to sell Xmas tress the week before Christmas. Everybody already has them by now is what I learned from it... (I sold about 3 total in 5 days)

To be fair most non-essential Christmas shopping has been done now but it's still quite a busy week.

 

[Domh245]

The ****test job I ever had was trying to sell Xmas tress the week before Christmas. Everybody already has them by now is what I learned from it... (I sold about 3 total in 5 days)

There's probably quite a few people who hadn't planned on needing a tree and suddenly need to get one

 

[C J Snarzell]

One subject area that does concern me this time of year is suicide. Having served in the police for several years, I saw quite a few deaths over Christmas where people have sadly not been able to cope. The famous Christmas Day helpline number that flashed across the bottom of the screen during many of the ITV and BBC programmes proves my point that this is a really difficult time for many people out there in normal circumstances.

The restrictions and today's announcement from Downing Street must surely be like pooring fuel on a fire. Sadly, I have a feeling that there will be a rise in non-Covid fatalities in the next couple of weeks from those who sadly cannot cope any further with Christmas and not being able to see loved ones.

Surely, Boris Johnson has been advised by psychology experts before he has made his decision today? It's all very well listening to Whitty & Valence but they are not experts in human minds and human behaviours.

CJ

 

[DB]

Agreed. It's getting ridiculous now.

And it's becoming blatantly obvious that the agenda is being driven by a small number of people (Johnson and his advisors) - hence the obvious tactics to bypass parliament which have been used here.

 

[Smidster]

I am not a "locktivist" or whatever other insult you want to use but honestly can't argue with the decision. If you are pursuing this strategy then it was the only option and it was always crazy to have Christmas exemptions as pretty the worst possible day for spread.

My criticism would be, yet again, the complete failure to manage expectations when you are at the mercy of nature. By all means say that you hope to be able to make easements but to promise it weeks before you know what the picture is going to be leaves you a hostage to fortune

Ultimately we just need to get through the next 6-8 weeks

 

[DB]

Surely, Boris Johnson has been advised by psychology experts before he has made his decision today? It's all very well listening to Whitty & Valence but they are not experts in human minds and human behaviours.

I think this unfortunately comes back to the current mindset, which is basically that if it's not Covid then it doesn't matter

 

[Skimpot flyer]

So apart from London (which moved into Tier 3 earlier) the areas moved into Tier 3 will have a whole .... 24 hours ... before the rules have changed AGAIN. So the shortest time before restrictions have changed again I think.

Welwyn Hatfield (where Grant Shapps is MP) has gone from Tier 2 on Wednesday to Tier 4 tomorrow, diverted via Tier 3 for 24 hours due to social engineering work

 

[DB]

I am not a "locktivist" or whatever other insult you want to use but honestly can't argue with the decision. If you are pursuing this strategy then it was the only option and it was always crazy to have Christmas exemptions as pretty the worst possible day for spread.

My criticism would be, yet again, the complete failure to manage expectations when you are at the mercy of nature. By all means say that you hope to be able to make easements but to promise it weeks before you know what the picture is going to be leaves you a hostage to fortune

Ultimately we just need to get through the next 6-8 weeks

You don't think it looks just a teeny bit manipulative that this 'mutant' strain suddenly becomes a major issue a couple of days after parliament has stopped sitting?

Next 6-8 weeks? Yeah, of course. 'X weeks to flatten the curve', significant normality by November', etc - how did that work out? Nothing Johnson (and cronies / advisors) say can be believed.

 

[Andyh82]

I think Boris Johnson has taken advantage of the fact the parliament is not sitting at the moment, and won't be until the first week in January.

Why would you expect the new rules not to pass?

A number of Tory backbenchers would vote against but the rest will vote for it and Labour would either agree or abstain

 

[C J Snarzell]

I think this unfortunately comes back to the current mindset, which is basically that if it's not Covid then it doesn't matter

Sadly, yes my friend. It's exactly the same for other illnesses like Cancer which are being relegated to the sidelines at the expense of people's lives because all BJ is focused on is Covid, Covid, Covid!

 

[DB]

Why would you expect the new rules not to pass?

A number of Tory backbenchers would vote against but the rest will vote for it and Labour would either agree or abstain

They might well pass, but the increasing backbench opposition would mean that evidence was demanded and difficult questions (like why has this mutant strain allegedly suddenly become such a problem) would get asked - all of which would be embarassing for Johnson.

It is also a matter of principal - it is not acceptable to use manipulative tactics like this as a means of bypassing parliament.

 

[Crossover]

Why would you expect the new rules not to pass?

A number of Tory backbenchers would vote against but the rest will vote for it and Labour would either agree or abstain

The rebellion last time was larger than the first. And if Labour et al are for the restrictions, why don't they bloody vote for them (or opposite if against) rather than chickening out entirely?!

 

[duncanp]

Completely.

There are certain things I’ll be doing this Christmas period regardless of what Boris says.

Perhaps we should both get on the train from Birmingham to Hereford and say "...Up yours Boris, I'm going to have a pint or three, with none of this "substantial meal" codswallop, and courtesy forbids me from telling you exactly where you can stick your Tier 4 and all of the other regulations...."

Assuming, that is, that Herefordshire isn't put into Tier 4 from Monday morning.

 

[Richard Scott]

I am not a "locktivist" or whatever other childish insult you want to use but honestly can't argue with the decision. If you are pursuing this strategy then it was the only option and it was always crazy to have Christmas exemptions as pretty the worst possible day for spread.

My criticism would be, yet again, the complete failure to manage expectations when you are at the mercy of nature. By all means say that you hope to be able to make easements but to promise it weeks before you know what the picture is going to be leaves you a hostage to fortune

Ultimately we just need to get through the next 6-8 weeks

What, like we've had to struggle through last 6-8 months. Would be just about bearable if knew that was the end. Why does it really matter if the virus spreads? It's already doing some despite restrictions. I'm afraid there are going to be worse things happening than a few more people getting the virus, we really do need a sharp reality check on this virus as the cure is now far worse than the disease.

 

[Jamesrob637]

Perhaps we should both get on the train from Birmingham to Hereford and say "...Up yours Boris, I'm going to have a pint or three, with none of this "substantial meal" codswallop, and courtesy forbids me from telling you exactly where you can stick your Tier 4 and all of the other regulations...."

Assuming, that is, that Herefordshire isn't put into Tier 4 from Monday morning.

Herefordshire might go up to 2, as might Cornwall. The islands a little less likely to go up.

 

[Watershed]

What's the rules in travelling through tier 4 areas where your destination is in tier 2 (ie Havant on a Southampton - Brighton service)?

No different to travelling through a tier 3 area. Guidance advises against it but law allows it in all circumstances.

Pomponians will surely be more than grated by the presence of a literal island of Tier 1, just five miles across the Solent. I suppose not all that different to the predicament of Monmouthians.

 

[TheSel]

The ****test job I ever had was trying to sell Xmas tress the week before Christmas...

Oh, you poor chap. That the GREAtest job you've ever had? Not much of a legacy, is it.

 

[yorkie]

I am not a "locktivist" or whatever other insult you want to use ...

It's a portmantoe of lockdown activist; to refer to someone as any sort of activist cannot reasonably be referred to as an ''insult'".

Ultimately we just need to get through the next 6-8 weeks

And then what? Another 6-8 weeks?

And what do you think people shouldn't be able to do for the next 6-8 weeks?

One thing that is not clear to me is whether outdoor leisure can take place in Tier 4, e.g. grassroots football. Does anyone know?

 

[Hadders]

Ultimately we just need to get through the next 6-8 weeks

Like being substantially back to normal by Christmas?

I hope I'm wrong but I fear we will have restrictions of some sort in place until at least Easter 2022. If we're not restriction free by summer 2021 (not looking likely with Furlough being extended) then there's no way they're going to relax restrictions during autumn or winter.

 

[3141]

Im not quite with you on this but my view is Witty and others have been banging on about needing tighter restrictions over Xmas and Boris has not wanted to do this so they cook up the virus has mutated and seeded that earlier in the week to get it on the radar then raise the stakes last night and they get the Xmas restrictions they wanted all the time imposed.

So you reckon the mutation is just "cooked up" do you?

I honestly think all these politicians are actually enjoying the power. The devolved government actually have some power over their populations and are also determined to use it.

Politicians do enjoy power, but they also prefer to be liked, and if they do things that people don't like they risk losing power. Unpopular actions add up and the effects happen at the next election. Boris must be dead worried about the electoral implications of all this plus the results of Brexit. Why is it so difficult to believe that these latest measures are intended to try to reduce the spread of the virus?

I am not a "locktivist" or whatever other childish insult you want to use but honestly can't argue with the decision. If you are pursuing this strategy then it was the only option and it was always crazy to have Christmas exemptions as pretty the worst possible day for spread.

My criticism would be, yet again, the complete failure to manage expectations when you are at the mercy of nature. By all means say that you hope to be able to make easements but to promise it weeks before you know what the picture is going to be leaves you a hostage to fortune

Ultimately we just need to get through the next 6-8 weeks

Agree. There are people around here who want to deny the seriousness of the virus and therefore try to invent other reasons why restrictions are put in place.

 

[duncanp]

Why would you expect the new rules not to pass?

A number of Tory backbenchers would vote against but the rest will vote for it and Labour would either agree or abstain

Because many MPs, particularly all the Tories in Tier 4 area, will be getting a right load of earache from their constituents about this.

If my MP was a Tory I would certainly be writing to him telling him that I am never going to vote Tory again whilst Boris Johnson is still leader.

When enough Tory MPs realise that Boris Johnson is becoming an electoral liability, particularly with the local elections coming up in May, then they will either force him to change tactics, or ditch him, rather like they did with Margaret Thatcher 30 years ago.

 

[DB]

So you reckon the mutation is just "cooked up" do you?

https://www.newscientist.com/articl...out-the-new-variant-of-coronavirus-in-the-uk/

To put this in context, however, the coronavirus is constantly mutating and there are lots of variants with one or more mutations. In fact, by July, there were already at least 12,000 “mutants”. ...

It's truly remarkable that one of them should suddenly become such an issue as to require emergency legislation two days after parliament has stopped sitting. Especially given that this particular mutation has been known about since September:

It was first sequenced in the UK in late September.

Doesn't look at all dodgy, manipulative, or a determined effort to bypass parliament, does it?

 

[Yew]

Ultimately we just need to get through the next 6-8 weeks

Isn't that what they said back in march?

 

[Hadders]

One thing that is not clear to me is whether outdoor leisure can take place in Tier 4, e.g. grassroots football. Does anyone know?

The guidance isn't clear. It says that outdoor gyms, pools, sports courts and facilities can remain open but also says that you can only exercise outdoors on your own, with your household or support bubble or with one other person.

It'll be interesting to see what the regulations say.