Shortage of drivers on GWR

[Class 170101]

Paddington to Cheltenham wiped out later today (Saturday). Long way from Plymouth.

Its a shuttle, but its very ad-hoc supplemented with some road transport.

To be honest this is sensible providing the journey between Gloucester and Cheltenham (and beyond) can be made easily by other operators.

 

[ComUtoR]

If a driver phones in to say he's got to self-isolate for ten days as a contact has tested positive but *he's asymptomatic do GWR arrange for him to be tested so he can return if the result is negative?

You can only get a free NHS test if at least one of the following applies:

• you have a high temperature
• you have a new, continuous cough
• you’ve lost your sense of smell or taste or it’s changed
• you’ve been asked to get a test by a local council
• you’re taking part in a government pilot project
• you’ve been asked to get a test to confirm a positive result

You can also get a test for someone you live with if they have symptoms.

Order COVID-19 rapid lateral flow tests

You can no longer order free PCR tests from the NHS.

www.gov.uk

Also if your app tells you to isolate you have to isolate for the entire period. Even if you then test negative.

*or she

 

[Dai Corner]

You can only get a free NHS test if at least one of the following applies:

• you have a high temperature
• you have a new, continuous cough
• you’ve lost your sense of smell or taste or it’s changed
• you’ve been asked to get a test by a local council
• you’re taking part in a government pilot project
• you’ve been asked to get a test to confirm a positive result

You can also get a test for someone you live with if they have symptoms.

Order COVID-19 rapid lateral flow tests

You can no longer order free PCR tests from the NHS.

www.gov.uk

Also if your app tells you to isolate you have to isolate for the entire period. Even if you then test negative.

*or she

Ah. Ok. I'm in Wales and here you can end your self-isolation if you get a negative test result apparently

Guidance for people with symptoms of a respiratory infection, including COVID-19 | GOV.WALES

What to do if you have symptoms of a respiratory infection

gov.wales

Ending self-isolation for those who have received a negative test result​

If you have had a negative test, then you may end your self-isolation when you are notified of the negative result even if you still have symptoms.

 

[irish_rail]

Ah. Ok. I'm in Wales and here you can end your self-isolation if you get a negative test result apparently

Guidance for people with symptoms of a respiratory infection, including COVID-19 | GOV.WALES

What to do if you have symptoms of a respiratory infection

gov.wales

I think that only applies to if you have symptoms of covid NOT if you are notified that you have been in contact with an infected person. There is a difference.

 

[ComUtoR]

Ah. Ok. I'm in Wales and here you can end your self-isolation if you get a negative test result apparently

Guidance for people with symptoms of a respiratory infection, including COVID-19 | GOV.WALES

What to do if you have symptoms of a respiratory infection

gov.wales

I think you are reading the guide wrong. This paragraph is taken from the guide.

Ending self-isolation if you have been contacted by Test, Trace, Protect (TTP) to confirm you have been in close contact with someone who has been tested positive for COVID-19​

You must self-isolate for 10 days. Even if you have a test and the result of that test is negative, you must still self-isolate for the full 10 days as advised. This is because you are a close contact of someone who has COVID-19 and the virus can take up to 10 days to show in your system.

From the way I read it the guide clearly states :

Who this guide is for​

This advice is intended for:

• people who have received a positive test result for COVID-19
• people with symptoms of COVID-19 who are waiting for a test result, or who have not been tested and do not require hospital treatment, who must remain at home for the appropriate self-isolation period (further details below)
• people living in households with someone who shows symptoms that may be caused by COVID-19 or who has received a positive test result for COVID-19
• people of all ages incluing children.

So if you have symptoms and are isolating because you have symptoms but then test negative, you can then end your isolation. If you are in contact with someone displaying symptomes you have to SELF isolate. The self isolation process is different from being told specifically to isolate because the app has told you to. The person who is displaying symptoms is the key here. They will need to prove a negative test to allow others around them to stop isolating.

My TOC has a whole bundle of testing kits and are regularly testing staff members for various reasons. Being tested whilst asymptomatic isn't an effective way to detect if you have the virus or not. This is why people should only get tested when they show symptoms. We use ours to put people into "bubbles" so the risks or infection are mitigated against and isolations can be kept to a minimum.

 

[father_jack]

To be honest this is sensible providing the journey between Gloucester and Cheltenham (and beyond) can be made easily by other operators.

The poor old Golden Valley is always the bridesmaid. There have been trains caped all week. What other operators could you suggest for Kemble, Stroud and Stonehouse ?

 

[Class 170101]

The poor old Golden Valley is always the bridesmaid. There have been trains caped all week. What other operators could you suggest for Kemble, Stroud and Stonehouse ?

No the shuttle runs between Gloucester and Swindon only!

 

[Horizon22]

The poor old Golden Valley is always the bridesmaid. There have been trains caped all week. What other operators could you suggest for Kemble, Stroud and Stonehouse ?

Referring to the section between Gloucester - Cheltenham ONLY was the commentators aim I believe. The shuttle is all stops Swindon <-> Gloucester, albeit still a low frequency. Earlier on in GWR's Covid timetable there wasn't a through service from Paddington at all 7 days a week.

 

[deep south]

Could they not be more flexible with annual leave and allow it to be carried over. I appreciate there might be issues next year but it might help a little. Anything is better than nothing.

Accountants don't like this, as it creates a financial accrual on the books, and has an impact on the profit/loss account.

 

[Sleepy]

GWR have cancelled all the Sleeper services next week !

 

[father_jack]

GWR have cancelled all the Sleeper services next week !

Cancelled until 4/1/21. Customer hosts isolating due to alleged mess room transmissions.

 

[Welshman]

Either that (or Manchester, both depots have drivers working to Holyhead) or it's being done as a night turn with a few hours break in Holyhead. I've not seen the timings to work out if that's possible. Avanti are always going to need taxis to some degree though, Polmadie is their only maintenance depot within walking distance of a traincrew depot.

Thank you.

 

[43096]

Accountants don't like this, as it creates a financial accrual on the books, and has an impact on the profit/loss account.

So what? There's plenty of other reasons for payroll accruals, yet they get done. In many businesses staff are salaried anyway so the cost is the same each month regardless of what leave they take, which makes it more of an operational management issue than anything else.

 

[Mag_seven]

The poor old Golden Valley is always the bridesmaid. There have been trains caped all week. What other operators could you suggest for Kemble, Stroud and Stonehouse ?

Plenty of Stagecoach service buses in evidence between Swindon and Cheltenham today. I wonder why staff shortages seem to be such a big thing in the railway industry compared to other transport sectors?

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

So what? There's plenty of other reasons for payroll accruals, yet they get done. In many businesses staff are salaried anyway so the cost is the same each month regardless of what leave they take, which makes it more of an operational management issue than anything else.

I guess to the pedant it could affect an operators compliance with the terms of their Emergency Measures Agreements?

 

[irish_rail]

Plenty of Stagecoach service buses in evidence between Swindon and Cheltenham today. I wonder why staff shortages seem to be such a big thing in the railway industry compared to other transport sectors?

Too be fair until now the railway (certainly the Western region) hasn't struggled with crew shortages. But now there are several outbreaks and the south is being far harder hit than the North and inevitably it is now affecting the traincrew depots at TOCs like GWR in the same way depots at places like Liverpool and Manchester where adversely affected in the first covid wave.

 

[PHILIPE]

Plenty of Stagecoach service buses in evidence between Swindon and Cheltenham today. I wonder why staff shortages seem to be such a big thing in the railway industry compared to other transport sectors?

The current shortages are due to exceptional circumstances

 

[dk1]

The current shortages are due to exceptional circumstances

Exactly & totally understandable.

 

[6Gman]

Plenty of Stagecoach service buses in evidence between Swindon and Cheltenham today. I wonder why staff shortages seem to be such a big thing in the railway industry compared to other transport sectors?

Arriva Bus has driver shortages on Merseyside to the degree that three services (at least) are currently being operated by other companies.

 

[Mag_seven]

The current shortages are due to exceptional circumstances

Arriva Bus has driver shortages on Merseyside to the degree that three services (at least) are currently being operated by other companies.

I was thinking more generally as even pre COVID the Swindon-Cheltenham line was always first in line for services being cancelled due to staff shortages.

 

[PG]

Plenty of Stagecoach service buses in evidence between Swindon and Cheltenham today. I wonder why staff shortages seem to be such a big thing in the railway industry compared to other transport sectors?

I'm pondering if other transport sectors don't have as much reliance on transporting their staff (by taxi) between locations which (in the context of the railway)

a) means less productive time per duty and;​

b) increases their exposure risk​

Could they not be more flexible with annual leave and allow it to be carried over. I appreciate there might be issues next year but it might help a little. Anything is better than nothing.

So what? There's plenty of other reasons for payroll accruals, yet they get done. In many businesses staff are salaried anyway so the cost is the same each month regardless of what leave they take, which makes it more of an operational management issue than anything else.

Not wishing to be a killjoy but I guess this is the crux of the issue - if you permit leave to be carried over then there comes a point when you will not have enough staff available to operate the service at some future point.
Yes it is harsh and I'd be livid if I lost my annual leave but I can't really see a way around the problem.

I wish a speedy recovery to all who are currently affected.

 

[the sniper]

I'm pondering if other transport sectors don't have as much reliance on transporting their staff (by taxi) between locations which (in the context of the railway)

a) means less productive time per duty and;​

b) increases their exposure risk​

Another factor could be that in many places bus drivers seem to be expected to have breaks at the road side rather than have access to proper messroom facilities. Under these circumstances alone, that may be advantageous. But as I've said, I have been very dubious about the taxiing we do.

 

[infobleep]

Accountants don't like this, as it creates a financial accrual on the books, and has an impact on the profit/loss account.

May be but then telling people not to travel has an even bigger impact on the profit / loss account.

These are unusual times that surely call for different measures

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 20 Dec 2020 ==

I'm pondering if other transport sectors don't have as much reliance on transporting their staff (by taxi) between locations which (in the context of the railway)

a) means less productive time per duty and;​

b) increases their exposure risk​

Not wishing to be a killjoy but I guess this is the crux of the issue - if you permit leave to be carried over then there comes a point when you will not have enough staff available to operate the service at some future point.
Yes it is harsh and I'd be livid if I lost my annual leave but I can't really see a way around the problem.

I wish a speedy recovery to all who are currently affected.

I have been allowed to take up to 2 years to use up my leave. My leave year runs 4 June to 3June the following year as it is based on the date I started. I prefer that ti January to December and I've been under that scheme in the past too.

 

[Lancs]

Yes it is harsh and I'd be livid if I lost my annual leave but I can't really see a way around the problem.

The solution is to pay the employee for untaken leave (ie. buy the holiday allowance from them). However, the accountants like this even less!

 

[21C101]

We need to learn from Australia where you can roll over all your leave for years then take a three month sabbatical.

No doubt their isolated geographic position lies behind this, but their businesses are able to cope fine with offering this flexibility.

 

[Horizon22]

Cancelled until 4/1/21. Customer hosts isolating due to alleged mess room transmissions.

There are also some issues with loco drivers - again they're being utilised to do other jobs.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 20 Dec 2020 ==

Plenty of Stagecoach service buses in evidence between Swindon and Cheltenham today. I wonder why staff shortages seem to be such a big thing in the railway industry compared to other transport sectors?

Well there's several reasons - as stated above its easier to cancel one line of route rather than ad--hoc cancellations on all routes which can have an even wider impact. Additionally, I doubt the route learning requirements for bus drivers are the same as train drivers; not all depots sign all routes so that can compound the issue on specific routes. And also it hasn't been that much of a "big thing"; up to now throughout Covid, GWR have had no crew issues whatsoever.

When you have a local outbreak, a shortage of trained drivers due to Covid delays and a timetable increase all at the same time, the result is entirely expected - cancelled trains.

 

[Clarence Yard]

I the “use it or lose it” method for leave is just lazy management in my book. As a former BR Area Finance Manager, I had no difficulty in accruing for leave carried forward. I used to book a proportion of it to be taken in the following year, with the appropriate cover built into the establishment/hours worked for that depot. My AM&EE and me would then give all the Depot Engineers specific targets to sort it out. Some did, some were hopeless at it.

You have to be a bit careful about letting staff go on long periods of leave when you have a leave roster, on grounds of fairness. Done right, it can get rid of accrued leave. But in every depot I’ve worked at (in a technical capacity), there are always those who just won’t go on leave!

Getting back to the subject, don’t forget the rail industry also has a high proportion of partners working in public facing public service roles, such as in health or education, as well as working in private roles such as retail. The risks of rail staff being put off for 10 days by the App therefore get magnified, especially in a local hotspot.

 

[tiptoptaff]

GWR has a policy for allowing us to carry leave over, but we have to apply to do it. We get 4 days automatically granted (I think) and the rest needs approval at director level. Rostered leave still had to be taken during the year, regardless of the situation, so many crew took their annual leave in lockdown.

It would be impractical to carry over a years worth of leave for a whole depot, as it would be fairly difficult to fit it all in the year after without allowing extra quotas of ad-hoc leave per day, and the associated coverage issues that things. Now amplify that across the business.

Can quite image the thread on here next summer because GWR had to cancel a load of services because they've got a load of crew on holiday burning their 2020 leave!!

 

[21C101]

"Plenty of Stagecoach service buses in evidence between Swindon and Cheltenham today. I wonder why staff shortages seem to be such a big thing in the railway industry compared to other transport sectors?"

They possibly don't get sick pay for the first three days and have strict attendence regimes that see them fired if they go sick too often. No year long training for replacement bus drivers.

 

[PG]

The solution is to pay the employee for untaken leave (ie. buy the holiday allowance from them). However, the accountants like this even less!

Well it financially compensates for the lost leave but doesn't allow for the need for a proper break from work which in a safety critical role is actually pretty f*#%ing important!

Can quite image the thread on here next summer because GWR had to cancel a load of services because they've got a load of crew on holiday burning their 2020 leave!!

Exactly!