Shortage of drivers on GWR

[sw1ller]

TFW services in North Wales and at Chester have suffered multiple cancellations for approx two months now.

The last count I did at Chester, we were over 40 drivers down. Not all to do with covid though. A lot of it is the lack of instructors or minder drivers to hand to get people post incident back. Some have been off since March eager to get back. We’ve had a big push on minders and instructors recently and it’s the covid testing that’s making things slow now. They are staring to get back steadily though but the Manchester airport training has taken another 2 drivers a week off the roster. Management are doing an incredible job juggling everything from new trainees, route learning, incidents, new traction training, back to work and organising bubbles for instructors and minders. Not to mention interviews. It’s so stretched at the moment but I can honestly say they’re doing a fantastic job with everything that’s being thrown at them.

 

[Horizon22]

One of my frustrations is the overuse of taxis on the railways, during covid aslef insisted we only use taxis with covid screens or black cabs as they have screens.

What would you suggest for depots that are close enough in railway terms but not actually near any station?

 

[sw1ller]

What would you suggest for depots that are close enough in railway terms but not actually near any station?

At Crewe, TFW drivers take 2 trains onto the depot and bring the other one back. Something I only learned recently when I complained to our control that the Crewe shunt driver had just nicked my train back to Chester

 

[Sleepy]

Heard about driver Covid GWR issues at least a week ago, I have it on good authority staff unhappy with protective measures in place and have reported said issues to local health authorities. Social distancing on those services running can be issues too if 1x5 car has to be locked out of use due to not enough staff available to crew both sets (this has occurred today). UPDATE Is there a huge demand for West Country travel for Christmas this year ? I just checked for Sleeper availability on 23rd and Surprisingly berths are still available 1 week out ........

 

[ComUtoR]

One of my frustrations is the overuse of taxis on the railways, during covid aslef insisted we only use taxis with covid screens or black cabs as they have screens.

How do you get to a location, to get a train.... before the first train of the day..

 

[theironroad]

Having just called in sick due to high fever, this comment has slightly enraged me. I’ll be back on Saturday should my covid test come back negative. What a heartless comment. I’ve worked so much overtime to help keep trains running all year and now, when the covid rates are higher than ever you put it down to laziness. I want to be much more offensive here and if it was a FB comment you’d have gotten a gobfull.

Hope all is good and test comes back ok.

Stay safe mate.

 

[High Dyke]

Worse that he used to work in the rail industry and started as a Guard.

Ah, but he's now the stick and not the donkey!

 

[Qwerty133]

So the question needs to be asked as to how the drivers are all catching it and how it is spreading. If so many are off; I'd be surprised if it was all external to work. Given that drivers are alone whilst driving, social distancing in mess rooms and when travelling pass is an obvious starting point.

Unless this happens to be a depot that never interacts with those at other depots which seems extremely unlikely infections at work would be expected to see a similar level of absence throughout the TOC rather than this largely localised absence of an illogically high proportion of one depot. Given the comments of the MP I wonder if he has been tipped off of some union organised gathering that has caused much of the spread as this would both explain those comments and also the possibility of an extremely high absence rate.

 

[MissPWay]

Unless this happens to be a depot that never interacts with those at other depots which seems extremely unlikely infections at work would be expected to see a similar level of absence throughout the TOC rather than this largely localised absence of an illogically high proportion of one depot. Given the comments of the MP I wonder if he has been tipped off of some union organised gathering that has caused much of the spread as this would both explain those comments and also the possibility of an extremely high absence rate.

Not really, you’re more likely to be in prolonged close contact with people from your own depot. It will also depend on the work at a given depot, some live nomadic lives spending time in “foreign,” messrooms and some are mainly at “home.”

All it would take is something being missed in a cleaning regime for example and there you go. At my husbands TOC the company has stopped cleaning driving cabs now and is no longer providing the sprays/time etc for drivers to do it themselves now but has continued with the cleaning regime in the rest of the train.

A lot of their children will probably attend the same group of schools as well.

I’m not sure what “Union organised gathering,” there could be? ASLEF and I’m pretty sure RMT have moved to online meetings.

 

[the sniper]

Unless this happens to be a depot that never interacts with those at other depots which seems extremely unlikely infections at work would be expected to see a similar level of absence throughout the TOC rather than this largely localised absence of an illogically high proportion of one depot. Given the comments of the MP I wonder if he has been tipped off of some union organised gathering that has caused much of the spread as this would both explain those comments and also the possibility of an extremely high absence rate.

Please tell me you're joking? Are people like you seriously this twisted...?

 

[Horizon22]

It seems a very interesting & inefficient way to staff a TOC having traincrew depots not at a station, all the traincrew depots in the TOC I work for are located at an actual station .

The comments I give are from personal experience, I understand there is a need for limited taxi usage but many could be taken out of jobs through better trainplanning & moving of work from depot to depot.

It might well be inefficient, but if the depot has been there for 100+ years, there's not much you can do.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 Dec 2020 ==

At Crewe, TFW drivers take 2 trains onto the depot and bring the other one back. Something I only learned recently when I complained to our control that the Crewe shunt driver had just nicked my train back to Chester

But where is this train? If there are no trains stabling at a station how is a driver(s) realistically to get to the depot to bring off trains for the first morning services without planned transport. Not to mention some of these depots have poor public transport located in - understandably - industrial areas for the most part.

 

[sw1ller]

But where is this train? If there are no trains stabling at a station how is a driver(s) realistically to get to the depot to bring off trains for the first morning services without planned transport. Not to mention some of these depots have poor public transport located in - understandably - industrial areas for the most part.

I don’t know the ins and outs of the situation there. There’s not much stabled at Crewe depot for TfW, anything that does come off will probably be taken off by the first train from Chester 5v31 if it’s a 175. Just speculation though. It’s not an ideal situation at all. I’m sure @craigybagel could explain it more if he wanted too.

 

[Right Away]

Given the comments of the MP I wonder if he has been tipped off of some union organised gathering that has caused much of the spread as this would both explain those comments and also the possibility of an extremely high absence rate.

Is this a wind-up? I imagine the supposed 'tip-off' to the MP went something like this:

"You'll never believe what happened! I saw some people off to a gathering, they were all wearing these strange uniforms that made them look like they worked for the railway. I don't know why but they were heading for the railway station. Some of them even got in the cabs of some trains."

In all seriousness, it is more likely to be because of an employer organised gathering, otherwise known as work, than not.

 

[PHILIPE]

Is this a wind-up? I imagine the supposed 'tip-off' to the MP went something like this:

"You'll never believe what happened! I saw some people off to a gathering, they were all wearing these strange uniforms that made them look like they worked for the railway. I don't know why but they were heading for the railway station. Some of them even got in the cabs of some trains."

In all seriousness, it is more likely to be because of an employer organised gathering, otherwise known as work, than not.

It only takes one COVIDIOT to set off a chain of infections.

 

[northernbelle]

There's a difference between being off work having been infected and having to self isolate because of close-contact.

If you've been sat near someone that later tested positive, you have to self isolate whether or not you've caught it - I think that's the case here in many cases. As soon as the isolation period (now 10 days) has ended for those affected, availability should improve (assuming no further positive cases being found).

Arguably, the time of year (shorter daylight hours, change in weather), the risk of crew being sat indoors near each other is greater than during the summer when they can have a break on the platform or in a nearby park.

 

[JamesT]

There’s now a BBC article about it, with lower figures than those suggested previously. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-55341586

GWR told the BBC a "significant number" of train crew members had tested positive for Covid-19 and a further 50 were self-isolating.
It said the absences accounted for 10% of operational staff in Devon and Cornwall, or 2.5% across all GWR staff.

 

[PHILIPE]

The "other" route to the West of England from Waterloo to Exeter is now running a reduced service

 

[Dr Hoo]

All it would take is something being missed in a cleaning regime for example and there you go. At my husbands TOC the company has stopped cleaning driving cabs now and is no longer providing the sprays/time etc for drivers to do it themselves now but has continued with the cleaning regime in the rest of the train.

Can I ask which TOC this is?

Under section 2(2)(d) of the Health & Safety at Work Act:

"so far as is reasonably practicable as regards any place of work under the employer’s control, the maintenance of it in a condition that is safe and without risks to health and the provision and maintenance of means of access to and egress from it that are safe and without such risks;"

Given that formerly franchised TOCs are effectively now 'covered' by the DfT financially I cannot see any commercial incentive to 'economise' in this area even without it apparently being illegal.

 

[craigybagel]

Having just called in sick due to high fever, this comment has slightly enraged me. I’ll be back on Saturday should my covid test come back negative. What a heartless comment. I’ve worked so much overtime to help keep trains running all year and now, when the covid rates are higher than ever you put it down to laziness. I want to be much more offensive here and if it was a FB comment you’d have gotten a gobfull.

Hope you're all ok!

The TOC I work for have me getting taxis at 2am or 3am to stations that have a traincrew depot to start a service, our depot have the first & last services into stations that have traincrew based there that sign the said route & traction.

So actually many taxis are down to poor train planning & intra company politics, if it was efficiency the TOC would save a LOT money by utilising resources far better.

Not all answers are that simple

It's been talked about for years, we all know all the diagrams across the different depots at our end of the network need ripping up and starting from scratch! But given the amount of shortages and training that needs dealing with, even outside of Covid, it'll probably be a while before that can be done.

I don’t know the ins and outs of the situation there. There’s not much stabled at Crewe depot for TfW, anything that does come off will probably be taken off by the first train from Chester 5v31 if it’s a 175. Just speculation though. It’s not an ideal situation at all. I’m sure @craigybagel could explain it more if he wanted too.

About 8 units now most nights in Crewe, though no two nights are the same at the moment. Mostly 15x, since Chester is better set up for 175s. Most of the time the driver who brings the unit on to the depot walks back to the station for their next duties, but there is usually a point where a driver brings a unit on to the depot, has their PNB there, and brings another unit off the depot back into the station later on. No need for taxis, just lots of walking.

 

[the sniper]

Is this a wind-up? I imagine the supposed 'tip-off' to the MP went something like this:

"You'll never believe what happened! I saw some people off to a gathering, they were all wearing these strange uniforms that made them look like they worked for the railway. I don't know why but they were heading for the railway station. Some of them even got in the cabs of some trains."

In all seriousness, it is more likely to be because of an employer organised gathering, otherwise known as work, than not.

Given that the MP concerned listened to Peter Hendy explain the situation about staff isolating due to Covid, only to respond with a random point about GWR not having Sundays in the working week, which Peter Hendy then had to point out was irrelevant in this situation, I'm not sure any sensible person would rely on imagining what bizarre 'tip off' this MP might be suggesting... Though to be fair to the MP, he didn't even hint at what Qwerty wishfully imagined.

 

[Horizon22]

About 8 units now most nights in Crewe, though no two nights are the same at the moment. Mostly 15x, since Chester is better set up for 175s. Most of the time the driver who brings the unit on to the depot walks back to the station for their next duties, but there is usually a point where a driver brings a unit on to the depot, has their PNB there, and brings another unit off the depot back into the station later on. No need for taxis, just lots of walking.

So this is a situation whereby the depot is evidently close enough to the station to walk back to. There are several locations across the country where this isn't an option, several on GWR.

 

[craigybagel]

So this is a situation whereby the depot is evidently close enough to the station to walk back to. There are several locations across the country where this isn't an option, several on GWR.

Indeed, and there are some at my TOC too. Taxis are always going to be unavoidable, which means drivers (and in certain circumstances guards too) are always going to be at risk.

 

[Melancholia]

Could the reason potentially also be that throughout the year, very few railway staff used up their annual leave allocation, and now the end of the year is near, everybody's trying to use it up before it expires?

 

[Sleepy]

Could the reason potentially also be that throughout the year, very few railway staff used up their annual leave allocation, and now the end of the year is near, everybody's trying to use it up before it expires?

Normally there is a limit of how many guaranteed leave per day, after that it depends on whether cover (ie overtime) can be sourced for that day otherwise leave requested will be declined. TOC's operate different methods of booking annual leave, historically even different depots within same company can have different terms & conditions.

 

[Flange Squeal]

Could the reason potentially also be that throughout the year, very few railway staff used up their annual leave allocation, and now the end of the year is near, everybody's trying to use it up before it expires?

In short, highly unlikely. The way leave works for the majority of TOC traincrew on the railway is you are told when you are taking the majority of it on an allocated basis each year (although you can swap these blocks with other people if you can find someone who wants your block). Your remaining 'ad-hoc' days you then apply for as and when you want it, but each depot will have a quota of how many people can be off each day. Once that limit is reached, you will be declined. I can't speak for the majority of TOCs, but the ones I have worked for have also all had leave running more in line with the financial year (beginning of April to end of March) or Summer timetable change (beginning of May to end of April).

 

[irish_rail]

Could the reason potentially also be that throughout the year, very few railway staff used up their annual leave allocation, and now the end of the year is near, everybody's trying to use it up before it expires?

No, at plymouth 4 drivers are guaranteed leave each day, any more than that only agreed when all the work can be covered so annual leave is nothing to do with it.

 

[Melancholia]

Understood, thank you all

 

[Silverlinky]

There's a difference between being off work having been infected and having to self isolate because of close-contact.

If you've been sat near someone that later tested positive, you have to self isolate whether or not you've caught it - I think that's the case here in many cases. As soon as the isolation period (now 10 days) has ended for those affected, availability should improve (assuming no further positive cases being found).

Arguably, the time of year (shorter daylight hours, change in weather), the risk of crew being sat indoors near each other is greater than during the summer when they can have a break on the platform or in a nearby park.

So are you saying that the depots or mess rooms are not Covid compliant? Why should someone be sitting near someone? I thought that there was social distancing at work, limited numbers in rooms and so on?

Should someone be sitting within two metres of someone else for more than 15 minutes (NHS definition of close contact)?

 

[whoosh]

Given the comments of the MP I wonder if he has been tipped off of some union organised gathering that has caused much of the spread as this would both explain those comments and also the possibility of an extremely high absence rate.

What a load of rubbish! Union Branch meetings have been moved to Zoom, any Instuctor/Trainee relationship is voluntary and backed up with weekly COVID tests (TOC's wanted just a mask!), and there are limits on how many people can use each messroom. All of this has been led by union initiative.


Where I work has had a positive case in the last couple of months and individuals told to isolate by test and trace app, in one case despite being an Instructor and getting a negative test a couple of days before.

Schools and colleges are closing and kids being sent home because of a positive case in the teaching staff. It's rife all over the country. To even suggest that railway staff are somehow swinging the lead or having secretive meetings (putting their own families at risk) is irresponsible of an MP, and just plain stupid of a Forum member.

 

[Amlag]

Indeed utterly appalling and Hendy to his credit made it clear that wasn't the case

Hendy, who on the TV news looked less than on the ball, ignorantly referred to the GW Paddington to the South West route as the 'West of England' line; this of course being the name for the SWR operated Waterloo to Exeter service.