Is York being ambitious enough ?

[Halifaxlad]

With all this about York Central being one of the biggest brownfield sites in any city centre in Europe and with claims this redevelopment that is around the east entrance is a key part of this development that is upon the opposite west side of the station, does anybody feel that York is lacking ambition for its West entrance ?

I know they're plans to improve this entrance, but from I gather so far it appears to be mainly a change of design and making it all a bit wider.



With such a major development to the West I feel that we should be looking at Kings Cross for inspiration. A Kings Cross style roof could cover the lines to the West of the main shed and provide a roof over a new concourse as opposed to just being an entrance with a pair of doors.

 

[greyman42]

I think it would cost a lot of money for not much benefit.

 

[DB]

York is a city permanently lacking in any sort of vision - any new building has to be completely bland in every way, and everything in the centre has to be designed with tourists in mind, with locals coming a long way behind.

 

[greyman42]

York is a city permanently lacking in any sort of vision - any new building has to be completely bland in every way, and everything in the centre has to be designed with tourists in mind, with locals coming a long way behind.

I disagree. You only have to look at the Avviva insurance building that replaced the old one. It must have cost a fortune. Perhaps you could point out some examples?

 

[DB]

I disagree. You only have to look at the Avviva insurance building that replaced the old one. It must have cost a fortune. Perhaps you could point out some examples?

Limestone facing on one side - granted, it's not the worst building in the city by a long way but it's nothing special.

I can't actually think of any examples of good new buildings in York - anything recent is so bland as to be completely unmemorable.

 

[greyman42]

Limestone facing on one side - granted, it's not the worst building in the city by a long way but it's nothing special.

I can't actually think of any examples of good new buildings in York - anything recent is so bland as to be completely unmemorable.

The new Hiscox insurance building is not bland. Can you think of any bad examples?

 

[DB]

The new Hiscox insurance building is not bland. Can you think of any bad examples?

That's a matter of opinon!

No, I can't think of anything particularly bad, just as I can't think of anything particularly good. It's all just bland - bit like the city itself really!

 

[Purple Orange]

That's a matter of opinon!

No, I can't think of anything particularly bad, just as I can't think of anything particularly good. It's all just bland - bit like the city itself really!

To be fair, the idea that tourists are prioritised over local residents is also a matter of opinion.

 

[DB]

To be fair, the idea that tourists are prioritised over local residents is also a matter of opinion.

Do you / have you lived there?

 

[Purple Orange]

Do you / have you lived there?

No, but I know it well. However that is irrelevant. It is still an opinion.

 

[DB]

No, but I know it well. However that is irrelevant. It is still an opinion.

Well, I lived there for nearly two decades and watched the council splash the cash on catering for the tourists. Residents were only of importance as a source of council tax.

 

[Purple Orange]

Well, I lived there for nearly two decades and watched the council splash the cash on catering for the tourists. Residents were only of importance as a source of council tax.

That doesn’t make it fact.

 

[DB]

That doesn’t make it fact.

It does make it a far more informed opinion that that of someone who has only ever visited the place as a tourist, though!

 

[Purple Orange]

It does make it a far more informed opinion that that of someone who has only ever visited the place as a tourist, though!

If visiting family & friends is classed as a tourist, then I am a tourist.

 

[LMS 4F]

It does make it a far more informed opinion that that of someone who has only ever visited the place as a tourist, though!

I lived there for 5 years leaving 2 years ago. I and a lot of my neighbours were of the opinion that the Council would always put visitors first. The lack of a bus station and the local services against Park and Ride are examples of what we meant.
It is true that visitors bring in a lot of money and create jobs but the locals are definitely second class in York.

 

[Halifaxlad]

I think it would cost a lot of money for not much benefit.

Im not suggesting copying Kings Cross, that is merely inspiration as the West side of the station leans itself to something like that!



I just feel that what is being proposed will merely feel like a back entrance still! This is supposed to be about one of the largest city centre opportunities in Europe although the more I read about it, it just sounds like an excuse for developers to build fancy new homes for the wealthy with a few offices thrown in for good measure.

 

[yorkie]

I'm not sure what you are proposing exactly (you don't want homes and offices, but what do you want?) but it's not going to be the main entrance, nor is the area of land being developed really a ''city centre" location. Adjacent to the city centre, yes, but that's not quite the same thing.

I don't know if it could one day be the entrance I use; if it is going to offer level access from the A59 (to use the existing 'NRM' entrance, you have to go up and down steps via Wilton Rise/Cinder Lane) and if it is shorter than going via the long stay car park, then it is a possibility.

Right now, for sure that entrance isn't the best, and if you aren't coming from Leeman Road, it's a bit of a long way round to get to it. I don't know exactly what is planned for the entrance or how that compares with your proposals.

 

[Halifaxlad]

I'm not sure what you are proposing exactly (you don't want homes and offices, but what do you want?) but it's not going to be the main entrance, nor is the area of land being developed really a ''city centre" location. Adjacent to the city centre, yes, but that's not quite the same thing.

I don't know if it could one day be the entrance I use; if it is going to offer level access from the A59 (to use the existing 'NRM' entrance, you have to go up and down steps via Wilton Rise/Cinder Lane) and if it is shorter than going via the long stay car park, then it is a possibility.

Right now, for sure that entrance isn't the best, and if you aren't coming from Leeman Road, it's a bit of a long way round to get to it. I don't know exactly what is planned for the entrance or how that compares with your proposals.

I'm certainly not against more homes and offices and I certainly don't expect it to become the main entrance. Quite the contrary as offices will aid the cities sustainability rather than just mainly tourism.

Merely remarking that they're is potential to do better!

The only thing I'm proposing is having level access to the West side of the station, which could be possible if the platforms were rationalized! Then at least then those alighting on the up line could head straight out of the station without having to go up and over the footbridge.

 

[yorkie]

I'm not sure what you mean by 'rationalising the platforms?

 

[Halifaxlad]

Here is the national rail map I've highlighted in red to show what platforms are not in use.



My initial thoughts are basically to pull the turnback platforms towards the Eastern side of the station by reinstating the disused platforms that would then allow 6/7/8 to be joined into through platforms as suggested elsewhere on this forum and not by me! (A new stair access could be constructed outside the main shed on platform 9)

If we had one more through platform through the main shed, (7 & 8 combined would be the same length as 9) then we could remove platform 11, that would then allow P10 to be lengthened to match that of P9.

I hope this makes sense!

 

[DB]

My initial thoughts are basically to pull the turnback platforms towards the Eastern side of the station by reinstating the disused platforms that would then allow 6/7/8 to be joined into through platforms as suggested elsewhere on this forum and not by me! (A new stair access could be constructed outside the main shed on platform 9)

That wouldn't be feasible.

The area between 6/7/8 is where the stairs come down, and losing that would create unnacceptable bottlenecks - the platforms aren't particularly wide, and this would require one set of stairs to platforms 7/8/9 and another set to a narrow island created out of 5/6/empty one by 8. It's also a listed building, and although the actual railway itself has exemption from planning laws, this doesn't apply to all parts of a station.

The empty bay next to 8 would be of little use if it were to be reinstated as a bay, as there aren't many terminating trains from the north. However, 8 is needed for Harrogate line trains, and there is nowhere to put that bay on the eastern side.

Reinstating the bay next to platform 1, and the one beside that where the bike racks are, might be feasible, but I'm not sure what purpose it would serve - they aren't that long (platform 1 can just take 6x23m vehicles as I recall) and not sure that there is a demand currently. It could also create more crossing moves across the station throat, which wouldn't be ideal.

 

[greyman42]

My initial thoughts are basically to pull the turnback platforms towards the Eastern side of the station by reinstating the disused platforms that would then allow 6/7/8 to be joined into through platforms as suggested elsewhere on this forum and not by me! (A new stair access could be constructed outside the main shed on platform 9)

The council would not even grant planning permission for ticket barriers at York so i don't see them allowing part of the footbridge to be demolished.

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The lack of a bus station and the local services against Park and Ride are examples of what we meant.

Where would you put a bus station in York city centre?

 

[LMS 4F]

The council would not even grant planning permission for ticket barriers at York so i don't see them allowing part of the footbridge to be demolished.

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Where would you put a bus station in York city centre?

Clear the retail park opposite Morrison’s, no doubt a lot of them will be empty soon, and put it there. Roads back and front and reasonable access to most routes.
It won’t happen because the people who run York don’t ride on buses, if they did the buses and the service would both be better. The buses on the no 11 service I used when living there were often 17 years old with seats like an Army 3 ton Bedford.

 

[DB]

The council would not even grant planning permission for ticket barriers at York so i don't see them allowing part of the footbridge to be demolished.

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Where would you put a bus station in York city centre?

Piccadilly where the containers are/were (not been there for a while so don't know whether they are still there)?

 

[greyman42]

Clear the retail park opposite Morrison’s, no doubt a lot of them will be empty soon, and put it there. Roads back and front and reasonable access to most routes.

That is not in York city centre. The retail park has been doing a roaring trade recently so i do not see it being empty soon.

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Piccadilly where the containers are/were (not been there for a while so don't know whether they are still there)?

The containers are still there but have a limited time and so will not be there in long run, which is just as well as they are an eyesore. I think the problem would be that Piccadilly is not on the main bus routes through the centre of York. Given what has been built in Piccadilly recently, which has much improved its appearance, i think that area will be sold for upmarket apartments.

 

[LMS 4F]

That is not in York city centre. The retail park has been doing a roaring trade recently so i do not see it being empty soon.

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The containers are still there but have a limited time and so will not be there in long run, which is just as well as they are an eyesore. I think the problem would be that Piccadilly is not on the main bus routes through the centre of York. Given what has been built in Piccadilly recently, which has much improved its appearance, i think that area will be sold for upmarket apartments.

Many places have Bus Stations which are not in the middle of the city or town centre.Leeds for example is no closer to the town hall than my idea is to Parliament St in York.

 

[billio]

I am not sure York requires a bus station as many services run past or quite near to York station. It would be better if more buses could run past the station but that requires removing private vehicles from the city centre.

 

[DB]

I am not sure York requires a bus station as many services run past or quite near to York station. It would be better if more buses could run past the station but that requires removing private vehicles from the city centre.

It's not just people going to and from the stations who use buses though!

Believe me, York really would benefit from a bus station (I lived there for many years, and never had a car, so this is from experience!)

 

[Dunnyrail]

I am not sure York requires a bus station as many services run past or quite near to York station. It would be better if more buses could run past the station but that requires removing private vehicles from the city centre.

Ah that sounds like a plan, I used to pontificate about removing all cars from inside the City Walls when I lived and worked in York between 1972 and 1978, you should have heard the noise from the car owners. But York has not moved on in any way except for a short period where cars were banned from the A1036 River Bridge (Cant remember the bridge name). A scheme that made things much pleasanter walking over said bridge but allegedly failed because some numpty in the Council got the sizes wrong on the signs! A common problem that also happened in Hemel Hempstead around the time I left there in 2012.

 

[DB]

Ah that sounds like a plan, I used to pontificate about removing all cars from inside the City Walls when I lived and worked in York between 1972 and 1978, you should have heard the noise from the car owners. But York has not moved on in any way except for a short period where cars were banned from the A1036 River Bridge (Cant remember the bridge name). A scheme that made things much pleasanter walking over said bridge but allegedly failed because some numpty in the Council got the sizes wrong on the signs! A common problem that also happened in Hemel Hempstead around the time I left there in 2012.

It's Lendal Bridge. And the outcry there was over that shows just how backward a city York is!