South Wales 'Metro' updates

[anthony263]

Noticed this morning they've started putting some track down plus masts up i the new tram train depot at taff wells

 

[59CosG95]

Noticed this morning they've started putting some track down plus masts up i the new tram train depot at taff wells

Any pictures?

 

[anthony263]

Sorry was driving my car to work and only noticed at the last second. Will try and grab a photo later as I go ho.e but then will have to see if I can reduce the size so I can upload it on here

 

[59CosG95]

Been a month to the day since we had a post on here - any further news of Metro-related developments?

 

[Dai Corner]

Been a month to the day since we had a post on here - any further news of Metro-related developments?

Have you seen the thread about the Welsh Government bringing railway ops in-house?

TFW Rail Services to be taken in house by Welsh Government

Link to story here The Welsh government is poised to nationalise its railways after a fall out on the bailout talks with the current operator, The Telegraph reported today. Ministers are expected to formally announce the transfer of operations to state-owned Transport for Wales on Thursday...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[Mollman]

Been a month to the day since we had a post on here - any further news of Metro-related developments?

There seems to be a lot out to tender relating to Metro infrastructure work recently, guess that's why it has been quiet

 

[Envoy]

I see that a Consultation is happening (again) regarding the building of a new road across the Vale of Glamorgan from M4 J34 (Miskin) to the A48 at Sycamore Cross near Bonvilston. In the original consultation, they mentioned that a new Parkway station could be built on the mainline near J34 and that buses could link this with Cardiff Airport. Of course, that is a ridiculous idea as far as rail travel is concerned as Cardiff Airport already has a rail line within 1 mile with trains on the Bridgend > Llantwit Major > Rhoose (Airport bus link) > Barry > Cardiff route. Ideally, a loop should be built from this line into the airport terminal and land should be reserved for that now in order to keep that option open.

If a new parkway station were built at Miskin by the Renishaw plant - where we have 4 tracks thus allowing express trains to overtake if necessary - it calls into question the ridiculous idea of having a bus P&R on the north side of J33 as set out by the Cardiff LDP. Why would anyone come off the M4 to catch a slow bus at J33 to central Cardiff when they could park at J34 and ‘fly’ down the mainline non stop to Cardiff Central in about 9 minutes? Of course, the Metro plans do show a desire to build a line from the City Line in Fairwater out to Cregiau and beyond and this would serve the area by J33 and this would have more frequent trains than could be provided by a faster service on the mainline. However, it looks like the land set aside for the J33 bus P&R is not exactly near the likely alignment of the proposed Metro line.

If a station were built at Miskin, I would suggest that a short new road should link it (&J34) with the next road to the east and thus provide a Groes Faen by-pass - especially in view of the massive population increase in the area to the east.

If you wish to see the consultation, click the following link. (Scroll & click ‘Parkway Station’ for the bit about the rail station).

M4 (Junction 34) to A48 Transport Improvements

A consultation has taken place on proposed routes for a new road between junction 34 of the M4 and the Sycamore Cross junction of the A48 and Park and Ride at Junction 34 of the M4.

www.valeofglamorgan.gov.uk

 

[edwin_m]

Why would anyone come off the M4 to catch a slow bus at J33 to central Cardiff when they could park at J34 and ‘fly’ down the mainline non stop to Cardiff Central in about 9 minutes?

Perhaps because their time of arrival there is essentially random because of traffic delays. The mix of fast and slow trains on the main line means there are few in total compared to the bus frequency, and even fewer of them would stop at an extra station. So many people would end up waiting a lot longer than 9min before they even got onto the train into Cardiff. This is essentially the reason why rail park and ride doesn't work anywhere for short-distance journeys, unless the rail is light or heavy rapid transit...

Of course, the Metro plans do show a desire to build a line from the City Line in Fairwater out to Cregiau and beyond and this would serve the area by J33 and this would have more frequent trains than could be provided by a faster service on the mainline. However, it looks like the land set aside for the J33 bus P&R is not exactly near the likely alignment of the proposed Metro line.

...which would be more like it. However, a bus P&R is essentially a disposable asset and could easily be superseded and built over if no longer required. The important point is to make sure some land is reserved for a P&R to be built at the same time as Metro, in a place that is convenient for people both to get to it by road and to board their train. If development comes before the Metro there is a risk no suitable site is available by the time it is needed.

 

[Caaardiff]

If a station was built at Miskin it wouldn't really serve much purpose for commuters. Pontyclun is only just down the road from Miskin so already serves the local catchment. Anyone from Llantrisant or further North has easy access to Pontyclun for anyone needing to commute into Cardiff. That would be the best place for Road to rail p&r.
A miskin station however would serve Cardiff Airport well. Whilst there is a station at Rhoose with a connection bus, the service is only hourly. Not ideal for people wanting to travel to the Airport. The Airport flyer from Cardiff, nicknamed the 'ghost bus' was every 20 mins to be more appealing to travellers and during the winter months dropped to every half hour.

The good thing about a Miskin station would be to provide a direct link from the West, with either Swanline or all TfW services from Carmarthen and beyond, and also a link from the Gloucester/Cheltenham trains. Currently anyone from outside of Cardiff or some of the Valleys would need to change at Central or Bridgend to get to Rhoose. Not ideal for convenience having to change twice.
It has also been suggested however that the rail link bus to Cardiff Airport is changed to Barry station, providing much more frequency towards Cardiff.

 

[Envoy]

If a station was built at Miskin it wouldn't really serve much purpose for commuters. Pontyclun is only just down the road from Miskin so already serves the local catchment. Anyone from Llantrisant or further North has easy access to Pontyclun for anyone needing to commute into Cardiff. That would be the best place for Road to rail p&r.
A miskin station however would serve Cardiff Airport well. Whilst there is a station at Rhoose with a connection bus, the service is only hourly. Not ideal for people wanting to travel to the Airport. The Airport flyer from Cardiff, nicknamed the 'ghost bus' was every 20 mins to be more appealing to travellers and during the winter months dropped to every half hour.

The good thing about a Miskin station would be to provide a direct link from the West, with either Swanline or all TfW services from Carmarthen and beyond, and also a link from the Gloucester/Cheltenham trains. Currently anyone from outside of Cardiff or some of the Valleys would need to change at Central or Bridgend to get to Rhoose. Not ideal for convenience having to change twice.
It has also been suggested however that the rail link bus to Cardiff Airport is changed to Barry station, providing much more frequency towards Cardiff.

Once TfW get their new trains, the plan is from 2023 to have a half hourly service on the VoG Coast Line. I really do wonder whether it would be a good idea to extend these as stoppers down to Swansea or even further west? I also wonder if it would be better to have the Cheltenham stoppers extended to the VoG Coast Line so we end up with a Cheltenham to Swansea stopper via the VoG Coast Line. This would surely find favour with people in the Cheltenham & Gloucester area as it would provide a link to Barry and hence the seaside as well as plug them into a near as dammit direct service to Cardiff Airport. This would be a darn site more useful to these people from England than having a direct service to Maesteg. (I favour an Ebbw Vale to Maesteg service).

 

[Dai Corner]

Once TfW get their new trains, the plan is from 2023 to have a half hourly service on the VoG Coast Line. I really do wonder whether it would be a good idea to extend these as stoppers down to Swansea or even further west? I also wonder if it would be better to have the Cheltenham stoppers extended to the VoG Coast Line so we end up with a Cheltenham to Swansea stopper via the VoG Coast Line. This would surely find favour with people in the Cheltenham & Gloucester area as it would provide a link to Barry and hence the seaside as well as plug them into a near as dammit direct service to Cardiff Airport. This would be a darn site more useful to these people from England than having a direct service to Maesteg. (I favour an Ebbw Vale to Maesteg service).

Wouldn't it just be giving Gloucestershire folk the option of changing at Barry for the Island instead of Cardiff? I know which I'd choose.

 

[Envoy]

Wouldn't it just be giving Gloucestershire folk the option of changing at Barry for the Island instead of Cardiff? I know which I'd choose.

OK, I know that Barry town station is not exactly the Island - but is is walkable if they don’t want to get a connecting train. When people go to Gloucester or Cheltenham stations to catch a train to wherever and they see Barry & Rhoose (Cardiff Airport) come up on the displays - it brings to their attention that direct trains do exist. This is likely to place in their minds that for the seaside Barry might be favoured over say Weston or Cardiff Airport over Bristol or Birmingham. Yes, I know that at the 2 English Airports have more flights and price must also be taken into account, but if Cardiff Airport is to get going again, it needs all the help it can get regarding transport links. The fact that the Welsh Government have decided not to build a new M4 south of Newport must surely be a major black mark against attracting passengers from nearby England. They talk about trying to get people to use trains instead of road transport and I am merely suggesting that direct trains linking the aforementioned places would be better than linking Cheltenham & Gloucester with Maesteg - as we have at present.

 

[Dai Corner]

TfW have tweeted about track-lowering work at Old Colliery in the Aberdare branch, with pictures.

https://twitter.com/transport_wales/status/1322493015341105156?s=21

Our teams are working hard to lower track at Old Colliery on the Aberdare Line – this is preparation work for the South Wales Metro.

(Old Colliery must be about the least distinctive name possible for a location in the Valleys!)

 

[Tomos y Tanc]

(Old Colliery must be about the least distinctive name possible for a location in the Valleys!)

True - but "Old Duffryn" was the actual name of the colliery involved so it sort of makes sense!

 

[Envoy]

POST DELETED

 

[adrock1976]

Is the Senedd still going ahead with plans to convert the Valley Lines network to tram operation, or have they abandoned that idea?

 

[Dai Corner]

Is the Senedd still going ahead with plans to convert the Valley Lines network to tram operation, or have they abandoned that idea?

They're still going for it.

 

[Tomos y Tanc]

They're still going for it.

It's a bit more complicated than that. The Rhymney Valley stock will be heavy rail trains as they also have to be able to run on Network Rail metals. They may have some tram elements in their styling but they're heavy rail vehicles.

The upgrading of the infrastructure on the Merthyr, Aberdare and Treherbert lines is also to heavy rail standards but the stock itself will be capable of on-street running so more tram like. It would be a stretch to call them pure trams though.

The Metro brand will also be applied to heavy rail services on lines that remain in Network Rail ownership including the VoG line and the Maesteg and Ebbw Vale lines.

 

[gazr]

Has Gilfach Bargoed been closed officially? Or is it now shut until the metro starts up? All current train stops are for 'staffing purposes' and no trains in the December timetable. Annoyed I never visited when I had the chance.

 

[PHILIPE]

Has Gilfach Bargoed been closed officially? Or is it now shut until the metro starts up? All current train stops are for 'staffing purposes' and no trains in the December timetable. Annoyed I never visited when I had the chance.

It is closed at the moment due to the COVID need for social distancing.

 

[gazr]

It is closed at the moment due to the COVID need for social distancing.

Thanks for the reply. Now you mention it, I believe I did read that somewhere, and it makes perfect sense. Still worrying that the stop has been removed completely from the December timetable.

 

[Tomos y Tanc]

Thanks for the reply. Now you mention it, I believe I did read that somewhere, and it makes perfect sense. Still worrying that the stop has been removed completely from the December timetable.

I suspect it may never re-open but I believe that TfW have to go through a consultation process before it can be officially closed.

 

[Dr Day]

On the 'WG taking TFWRS in-house' thread, in relation to discussion on Network Rail infrastructure enhancement costs, post #110 refers to the CVL project having been descoped several times to remain within the fixed capital budget. Can anyone advise what has come out?

 

[DaveHarries]

I see that a Consultation is happening (again) regarding the building of a new road across the Vale of Glamorgan from M4 J34 (Miskin) to the A48 at Sycamore Cross near Bonvilston.

There is already a road between the two: it isn't exactly a country lane. I fail to see why they need a new road which, if built, would presumably be an extension of the A4119.

Dave

 

[Tomos y Tanc]

There is already a road between the two: it isn't exactly a country lane. I fail to see why they need a new road which, if built, would presumably be an extension of the A4119.

Dave

At the risk of going wildly off topic the road would serve multiple purposes. Following the recent upgrade of the A4226 (Five Mile Lane) the by-pass would link that road to both the M4 and A4119 providng better access to Barry and to Cardiff Airport for residents of both the central valleys and Swansea and west Wales.

I'm not generally a fan of new road schemes but this one would do a lot to ease the horrendous peak hour congestion on both the A4232 (Cardiff's eastern link road) and the A4050, the main route linking Cardiff and Barry.

It would also provide access to the proposed new Park and Ride station on the SWML at Miskin.

 

[bussikuski179]

I suspect it may never re-open but I believe that TfW have to go through a consultation process before it can be officially closed.

Seems like it’s been mothballed at least, at best it’s a Redcar British Steel/IBM situation where it may still reopen, at worst it’s gone forever.

 

[Envoy]

There is already a road between the two: it isn't exactly a country lane. I fail to see why they need a new road which, if built, would presumably be an extension of the A4119.

Dave

It most definitely is a country lane. If one were to put in on Google for the best route from say Swansea to Cardiff Airport - it will come up with this route - which just goes to show that you cannot trust Google. Neither can you trust the Welsh Government whose signposts from the west tell people to stay on the motorway all the way to J33 and then take the A4232 to Culverhouse Cross and then the A4050 via north Barry. Goodness knows why they would tell people to go so far east and add to congestion at J33 and Culverhouse Cross to then crawl along the A4050 along with all the other traffic from the east and Cardiff. (I reckon the best route from the west to Cardiff Airport is to leave the M4 at J37 at Pyle and then take the A48 passing south of Bridgend and almost reaching Cowbridge before using the new road by the so called ‘Clare Garden Village’ (Cowbridge) and then south to the Llanrtwit Major by-pass to approach the Airport from the west. Thus, traffic to/from the west also avoids jamming up at Weycock Cross roundabout.

Anyway, click this link and you should see a street view of the country lane that links the A48 near Bonvilston with the M4 at J34 (Miskin) - in other words, the Google advised route! (At road junction - go left).

Google Maps

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.

www.google.co.uk

 

[Cardiff123]

Is the Senedd still going ahead with plans to convert the Valley Lines network to tram operation, or have they abandoned that idea?

It wouldn't be up to the Senedd if the CVL upgrades did get abandoned, it would be up to the Welsh Govt. The Senedd is the Welsh Parliament, the Welsh Govt is well, the Welsh Govt.
But why would the 'idea' be abandoned to continue with the £738m upgrade of the CVL when all the funding is secured, it's well within budget, and infrastructure work started in mid summer? Thankfully Chris Grayling is not in charge of Welsh Govt's & TfW's rail upgrade projects, so they can't be abandoned when work is already well underway and within budget.

On the 'WG taking TFWRS in-house' thread, in relation to discussion on Network Rail infrastructure enhancement costs, post #110 refers to the CVL project having been descoped several times to remain within the fixed capital budget. Can anyone advise what has come out?

Bits of electrification have been taken out so there's more 'discontinuous' electrification and a few bits of re-doubling have also been removed but it's nothing that will affect the overall service enhancements of the project being achieved.

 

[Dr Day]

Bits of electrification have been taken out so there's more 'discontinuous' electrification and a few bits of re-doubling have also been removed but it's nothing that will affect the overall service enhancements of the project being achieved.

Thanks. But presumably even if in theory a specific timetable can be delivered without them, the removal of bits of re-doubling will impact on resilience and longer term flexibility should demand patterns change either between the different valleys at one end, between the choice of Central (and south thereof) and Cardiff Bay at the other end or just in general post Covid meaning say on balance only 3 tph can be justified per branch rather than 4tph . The fact that performance risk now all sits effectively in the one vertically integrated organisation I guess means TfW are happy to take that risk, which NR may not have been.

 

[edwin_m]

Thanks. But presumably even if in theory a specific timetable can be delivered without them, the removal of bits of re-doubling will impact on resilience and longer term flexibility should demand patterns change either between the different valleys at one end, between the choice of Central (and south thereof) and Cardiff Bay at the other end or just in general post Covid meaning say on balance only 3 tph can be justified per branch rather than 4tph . The fact that performance risk now all sits effectively in the one vertically integrated organisation I guess means TfW are happy to take that risk, which NR may not have been.

The way the branches converge into the core between Queen Street and Central means that effectively each route has to operate the same interval or a multiple thereof. I believe it's 15min on all routes except Coryton which is 30min. Fixing that gives the advantage that it also fixes where trains will pass on the single line sections and doubling can be targeted accordingly. I assume the operational strategy will be to prioritise trains going towards Cardiff, and if an outbound is late enough that it will won't be able to return on time then it will be turned short, with passengers only having a short time to wait for the next one.