the most over the top restrictions introduced

[221129]

and presumably Scotland)

Not even a thing here. Even herself has understood the importance of fitness and excercise for the health of the population.

 

[DustyBin]

This 'essential shopping only' rule:

What if a child is sick on their bedsheets and you can't go out to buy anymore?

What if your laptop packs in, you have an imminent university deadline, you have your work emailed to yourself, but can't go and get a new laptop, thus failing the assignment and possibly resulting in disciplinary action?

What if a microwave/oven packs in, are you to simply buy takeaways for 2 weeks?

What if your mouse/keyboard/monitor/computer packs in and means you are unable to work, potentially causing a loss of employment?

What if your washing machine packs in, are you to simply use the same smelly, dirty clothing for 2 weeks?

What if you end up damaging your phone/internet, are you to go without any interaction whatsoever for 2 weeks?

What if your fridge packs in, are you to go out multiple times a day to buy food just before you want to make it?

What if you tear some clothes you need for an online meeting, are you to simply ignore that?

What if your phone charger packs in, are you to simply go without a phone for 2 weeks?

There's so many problems with this absolutely ridiculous rule it's unbelievable anyone is even considering implementing it, let alone that it has actually happened.

The way the economy is heading people soon won’t be able to afford such luxuries, so why not get them used to going without now? A regression in living standards beckons for many, have you ever watched that TV programme ‘Victorian Farm’?....

I began writing the above tongue in cheek, and then realised I may be on to something....

 

[DelayRepay]

But seriously, who buys laptops from a shop in 2020? I bought one in Dixons in 1999. Since then I have not bought computer hardware from an in-person store - and your typical student is tech-savvier than middle aged me.

I did. It was a distress purchase because I needed, very urgently, to finish some work. I did look on Amazon but even with Prime there was nothing available to be delivered until the day after next. The same with Argos.

I bought the cheapest laptop available from a supermarket. It was not a great purchase but it did the job, waiting a couple of days for a better value model would not have.

I know these are remote examples - most people won't need new clothes, laptops or phones during the lockdown (although, obviously, more people will need them if the lockdown is extended). But the equally the likelihood of spreading Covid whilst buying one of these items, from a shop that is allowed to trade, and has Covid Secure measures in place is probably equally remote.

It clearly is not about protecting small businesses, given that the same goods can be bought from Amazon.

I suspect if they had said supermarkets had to close completely, with the army distributing basic rations to houses, some people would think it was a great idea.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The lunatics really have taken over the asylum if that story from Chester is true

It's caused by the fact that we can't seem to get borders right in the UK. If you look at a map of Chester it's utterly obvious where the border should go and that Saltney should not be in Wales. There are examples of this causing problems (e.g. inefficient bin collections and silly bus services) all over the UK and we really should spend five minutes fixing it.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 24 Oct 2020 ==

I suspect if they had said supermarkets had to close completely, with the army distributing basic rations to houses, some people would think it was a great idea.

If we had the resources to provide delivery to everyone that would make the lockdown more effective (and thus potentially shorter), yes. The fewer in-person human interactions, the less transmission. It's really that simple.

 

[trainophile]

If the supermarkets weren't profiteering by putting up their delivery charges (Tesco now £4.50 for all slots, used to be able to get them for £2 if you weren't too fussy on time), then more people wouldn't have to leave home for basic essentials.

Presumably Tesco etc. can still deliver items classed as non-essential if you're having a delivery anyway?

 

[Baxenden Bank]

If the supermarkets weren't profiteering by putting up their delivery charges (Tesco now £4.50 for all slots, used to be able to get them for £2 if you weren't too fussy on time), then more people wouldn't have to leave home for basic essentials.

Presumably Tesco etc. can still deliver items classed as non-essential if you're having a delivery anyway?

Profiteering?

The costs of supermarket home delivery was discussed very recently, they are not 'profiteering' - assuming you mean making excessive profits rather than a reasonable profit. It's only £3 anyway - if you will accept a four hour slot, confined to an hour slot on the day of delivery. Even cheaper with Delivery Saver - £16 of vouchers for 6 months of (up to) daily deliveries.

Yes, anyone can deliver, any items. It's in the guidance. Even the smallest independent store can do so if they give out their telephone number and have a means to deliver, or click and collect. The purpose of the lockdown is to prevent people interacting, not to prevent them spending. The purpose of banning supermarkets from selling non-essential items is to create a level playing field - an idea already debunked widely as Amazon can still do everything. Effectively only in store browsing and purchasing are forbidden. All shops which are closed can trade for click and collect (COVID secure) or home delivery.

Many shops sell more than one type of product in their stores, and some – such as supermarkets or department stores – sell many types of products there. As of 23 October, there are now restrictions on what products may be sold in stores. Other products can only be sold through delivery services, whether that is conducted online, by telephone or mail order.

This has been done in view of the need for everybody to stay at home unless it is necessary to leave. People should not leave home to buy any goods that aren’t essential during the firebreak period. It also follows that in order to maintain a level playing field and to reduce interaction between people away from home, shops that sell multiple products should not be allowed to sell products sold by a shop that has been required to close.

The guidance is here:
Wales - closure of businesses and premises

 

[DelayRepay]

If the supermarkets weren't profiteering by putting up their delivery charges (Tesco now £4.50 for all slots, used to be able to get them for £2 if you weren't too fussy on time), then more people wouldn't have to leave home for basic essentials.

To be fair, it's always been said that supermarkets make a loss on their home delivery services. And over recent months they've invested heavily in expanding it with extra vans and staff. £4.50 is not unreasonable really - I doubt they're making a huge profit given the costs involved. And with more people being at home during the day, there's probably less reason to charge different prices at different times.

 

[trainophile]

To be fair, it's always been said that supermarkets make a loss on their home delivery services. And over recent months they've invested heavily in expanding it with extra vans and staff. £4.50 is not unreasonable really - I doubt they're making a huge profit given the costs involved. And with more people being at home during the day, there's probably less reason to charge different prices at different times.

Fair enough, but when I started ordering from Tesco online they were no longer doing Delivery Saver to new customers, so it was £2 or £2.50 plus the carrier bag charge, for which your order had to be over £40 or there was an additional charge on top. As there are only two of us we often struggled to make up the £40 (we have enough alcohol for a while!) so the cost became a bit prohibitive. Also recently they aren't even delivering in proper carrier bags, just plastic tray liners that are no earthly use afterwards.

Iceland is the best for value, being free delivery on £35+ orders plus 40p for bags, however they inevitably cross off some of the things we really need so we end up having to go down to the Co-op anyway.

I guess £4.50 isn't going to cover their delivery costs, but if it encourages people to spend more than they really need to then surely they make it up that way.

 

[trebor79]

I guess £4.50 isn't going to cover their delivery costs, but if it encourages people to spend more than they really need to then surely they make it up that way.

Actually I find I spend way more when I shop in person. About £150 for a weeks groceries for the family. If I do it online I spend about £90.

 

[trainophile]

Actually I find I spend way more when I shop in person. About £150 for a weeks groceries for the family. If I do it online I spend about £90.

Good grief, how big is your family?

 

[trebor79]

Good grief, how big is your family?

Just the two of us and out two small children. But we eat quite well I suppose. About 40 quid of that will be fresh fruit and veg, which I guess is quite a lot. We get through gallons (and I mean about 3 or 4 gallons a week) of milk. There always seems to be a bottle of gin or Jack Daniels to be replenished. Don't buy a lot of meat as Mrs is vegetarian and I can't be bothered cooking multiple meals so me and the eldest son eat veggie too. I buy meat for the younger one and batch cook and freeze chicken casseroles and things like that for him. Things like cheese I'll tend to buy the expensive stuff because the sweaty blocks of anaemic cheddar aren't worth eating.

Anyway, to bring it back on topic. If I do the shopping online (which I also find frustrating and stress-inducing) I buy about 90 quids worth of stuff, and then inevitably end up making several trips to Sainsburys later in the week to top up. Whereas if I got to Tesco in person I tend to get everything I need - even with a list you walk past stuff and think "oh yes, I need some of that". Or you can change meal plans if some ingredients aren't in stock or aren't very fresh rather than end up with a random subsititution. I also find that it's very normal to get short-dated stuff when it's being delivered, whereas I can either buy a different product or reach to the back of the shelf and get the longer dated stock I want/need.
I think also I'm more disciplined with the list-making whereas ordering online it's always tempting to do it ad-hoc and amend the order as you get closer to delivery, but that's not as efficient, I invariably forget things and you suffer from items magically disappearing from your order, as discussed upthread.
Having done the grocery shopping online for about 5 years I have found it a refreshing change to get back to shopping in the shop. I can't see much that's going to persuade me to go online. I've cancelled the delivery saver subscription - the only possible benefit of that was priority delivery slots at Christmas, but I've never managed to secure one close to the big day. Last year I was persuaded to stay up until 1am or whenever they opened for booking, only for the app and website to crash. So the priority access in my experience is largely theoretical.

 

[kristiang85]

Argentina is known for having one of the longest and most extreme lockdowns on the planet, and it has achieved sod all. But this idea from their government is beyond bonkers:

At one point, the city Government of Buenos Aires attempted to require elderly folks to call a hotline to get permission to leave their own house for any non-essential task, the idea being that some poor Government call centre employee would patronisingly explain to them all the risks (as if they had been living in some bubble or under a rock) and attempt to persuade them to stay at home. The most ridiculous thing? The elderly were expected to call and request permission to leave their home every time they needed to go out! And if they left their home without permission, they were threatened with – community service! (Presumably outside the home? One can only guess). The resulting outrage, not least from the elderly themselves, forced the city Government to backtrack rather quickly, not least because was no practical way to enforce this policy anyway.

Postcard From Argentina – The Daily Sceptic

by Thucydides I see you have already received a lot of postcards from around the world, but none yet from the country with the longest and most irrational quarantine on the planet! So, allow me to fill in some of the gap (be warned, this gets long). I am a professor in an area of […]

lockdownsceptics.org

 

[Baxenden Bank]

Argentina is known for having one of the longest and most extreme lockdowns on the planet, and it has achieved sod all. But this idea from their government is beyond bonkers:

Postcard From Argentina – The Daily Sceptic

by Thucydides I see you have already received a lot of postcards from around the world, but none yet from the country with the longest and most irrational quarantine on the planet! So, allow me to fill in some of the gap (be warned, this gets long). I am a professor in an area of […]

lockdownsceptics.org

It would be bettter if the article didn't contradict itself. In the first line, you have to call to leave your home for non-essential purposes. Later you have to call every time. Which is it? Either lazy writing or someone on a soap box.

 

[birchesgreen]

TfWM have started issuing rather odd advice on twitter, yesterday telling people to not travel to venues or services that were closed.

Er, yeah thanks for that.

 

[DustyBin]

TfWM have started issuing rather odd advice on twitter, yesterday telling people to not travel to venues or services that were closed.

Er, yeah thanks for that.

I had to laugh at that!

 

[scrapy]

TfWM have started issuing rather odd advice on twitter, yesterday telling people to not travel to venues or services that were closed.

Er, yeah thanks for that.

This seems to be a rehash of current government travel advice that says you may use public transport to access venues or services that are open, again equally pointless advice.

 

[C J Snarzell]

My dad and my step mother decided to bravely venture out for a meal last night at a local pub/restaurant.

When they took a seat - he asked for a pint of bitter and a glass of wine while they viewed the food menu. My dad was told they wouldn't be served drinks until they had actually ordered a substantial meal off the menu. My dad pointed out that they weren't yet ready to order food but they just wanted to have some drinks first before their meal.

The bar staff said that because of the Covid restrictions in place - the pub is basically getting 'assurance' that people buying drinks are buying a substantial meal.

He did state that a few customers have previously been coming into the pub, 'pretending' to order a substantial meal, by purchasing drinks then spending an hour at a table with a menu card in front of them. The same customers then leave after a few pints having not bought any food - which they never intended to do in the first place.

I personally think this is a little over the top. I too like to have a pint or two before a meal, while I grace the menu card. It seems some places are really taking the 'substantial' meal policy very seriously.

CJ

 

[kristiang85]

My dad and my step mother decided to bravely venture out for a meal last night at a local pub/restaurant.

When they took a seat - he asked for a pint of bitter and a glass of wine while they viewed the food menu. My dad was told they wouldn't be served drinks until they had actually ordered a substantial meal off the menu. My dad pointed out that they weren't yet ready to order food but they just wanted to have some drinks first before their meal.

The bar staff said that because of the Covid restrictions in place - the pub is basically getting 'assurance' that people buying drinks are buying a substantial meal.

He did state that a few customers have previously been coming into the pub, 'pretending' to order a substantial meal, by purchasing drinks then spending an hour at a table with a menu card in front of them. The same customers then leave after a few pints having not bought any food - which they never intended to do in the first place.

I personally think this is a little over the top. I too like to have a pint or two before a meal, while I grace the menu card. It seems some places are really taking the 'substantial' meal policy very seriously.

CJ

Sigh. It takes away the pleasure of a relaxing evening out.

A way round it *could* be to ask the table to buy a meal voucher per person equivalent to a cheap substantial meal in the pub with their first drink, valid only for the next two hours, which they can then reclaim from their food later. That should stop people going in just for drinks if it costs them an extra £8-10 or so.

 

[SJN]

To be fair, the are being threatened with large fines if they don’t follow the law which they may not be able to afford.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

I have another one to report, unfortunately.

This morning, I have been told that the following situation occurred:

A student at a college ( which I will resist the temptation to name ) contracted the virus after a college day from his stepfather; this student had no further classes scheduled for a few days and developed symptoms and had a positive test before his next scheduled college day. In the interim, since leaving college on his previous day in, he had not been in contact with anyone else from the college at all - not even anyone from his class.

It is provable that he caught it from his stepfather and has been nowhere near the college or anyone associated with it from that point.

Guess what?

The college has now sent everyone else home for 14 days...



This, I think, is where we should quote the last lines from the film "Bridge on the River Kwai" isn't it?

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Just heard on the BBC lunchtime TV news that the entire population of Denmark is to be culled...




...apparently it's just their population of minks.

Denmark to cull up to 17 million mink amid coronavirus fears

Cases of a mutated strain of Covid-19 have been detected that may undermine future vaccines.

www.bbc.com

 

[ainsworth74]

Just heard on the BBC lunchtime TV news that the entire population of Denmark is to be culled...

If there's no humans in Denmark then Denmark will have no community transmission anymore and can lift any restrictions! It just makes sense!

 

[island]

I personally think this is a little over the top. I too like to have a pint or two before a meal, while I grace the menu card. It seems some places are really taking the 'substantial' meal policy very seriously.

That’s the law, sadly, and a number of councils and police forces have threatened to oppose license renewals for premises not following the CovidSecure requirements to the letter. Complaints about the situation are best addressed to one’s MP.

 

[WelshBluebird]

It is provable that he caught it from his stepfather

Is it? How?

 

[bussikuski179]

An OTT restriction in Finland is that they recommend wearing a mask while giving birth. That is just ridiculous, especially since labor can last for 24 hours or more. Next they’ll probably put a mask on the baby too as soon as they can see the face.

 

[duncanp]

If there's no humans in Denmark then Denmark will have no community transmission anymore and can lift any restrictions! It just makes sense!

Ssshhh!!!

For Pete's sake don't the SAGE "scientists" anywhere near this proposal, otherwise they will recommend it for England, and produce a whole load of dodgy data and graphs to justify it.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Is it? How?

According to what I have been told, the only person he was with after leaving the college that last day, which was before the half term, was his stepfather. His stepfather had symptoms of it, then a few days later he developed the symptoms himself. The college was informed this morning.

 

[Scotrail12]

Scotland’s 6pm rule for hospitality. Basically stops anyone going for dinner, can’t wait to enjoy a pizza in the freezing cold. Why not 8pm if it has to be different to other places?

 

[kez19]

Scotland’s 6pm rule for hospitality. Basically stops anyone going for dinner, can’t wait to enjoy a pizza in the freezing cold. Why not 8pm if it has to be different to other places?

Still though if your an MP I am sure they'll be accomodated after hours for their own shindig!

 

[Butts]

Falkirk down to Level 2 - there is justice - permit to travel granted.

Poor old Edinburgh stuck with the weegies in Level 3