Lockdown in England from Thursday 5 November until Wednesday 2 December

[C J Snarzell]

There‘s absolutely nothing stopping people going for a bike ride, walk, run, doing outdoor exercises etc. I’ve actually lost 3 stone since March. Hopefully the traffic levels are reduced substantially again and cycling will be a lot easier.

I do a lot of cycling and walking but the last week alone has made it impossible with rain fall.

On days, when it is not raining, the problem with cycling this time of year is that roads are very hazardous. The road surface is very slippery due to all the fallen leaves and tree sap, I've come off bike twice in the last month due to the Autumnal road conditions (thankfully, its been more of a wobble/topple rather than a full collision when you seriously injury yourself).

With road conditions this time of year, you have reduced visibility and motorists don't tend to give you as much consideration as they do in the Spring & Summer. There is also icy/frost conditions to consider - although so far we haven't had sub zero temperatures (only round the corner though!). Cycling is impossible when roads are full of black ice.

I find off road paths and canal routes are like quagmires this time of year and it is simply not practical cycling in these areas and returning home looking like Swamp Thing.

As for walking, that's fine, but again you are guided by the weather which has been very poor the last few weeks.

I personally think health & fitness in this second lockdown has been severely compromised. At least we had the light evenings and endless dry warm weather when the first lockdown started.

CJ

 

[DB]

Conversely I think many will find a November lockdown easier. A lot of people post bonfire night go in to a semi hibernation this time of year. The weather is crap, and the nights are long.

I am guessing that you don't live alone in a small flat? Anyone in that circumstance really isn't going to find it easier.

 

[Smidster]

There‘s absolutely nothing stopping people going for a bike ride, walk, run, doing outdoor exercises etc. I’ve actually lost 3 stone since March. Hopefully the traffic levels are reduced substantially again and cycling will be a lot easier.

That is of course true but in reality only a fraction of people who would have gone out to exercise in April and May will do so in November & December.

Going out for a nice walk or bike ride in the Spring is pleasant - especially when you start to feel the sun on your back for the first time in many months but that just isn't the case in Winter. Granted you do get a few nice days where you can wrap up and enjoy the crisp air but most of the time it is just dark, wet and miserable - most people won't bother with that when they can curl up on the sofa in their heated home and watch TV.

Equally I am not sure how many of those who would do it in the Spring are even equipped to do so in Winter - How many have high quality lights and hi-vis gear for example? I know you should always have some kit as standard but to do it confidently it takes a bit of investment which is another barrier.

Obviously I would want more people to cycle during the winter but would not expect anywhere near as many people to do so as earlier in the year.

 

[sjpowermac]

Teachers aren't the only people in this position. There are many people that need to keep working to keep services going be they hospitals, supermarkets etc. If I were a teacher I'd be grateful that I was still working and being paid a full wage, unlike many other people.

Yet another post that belittles teachers.

Did I miss an announcement about strike action? A work to rule perhaps? Err, no.

Please stop this nonsense of taking anything the teaching unions say as being in any way representative of the overwhelming majority of teachers.

 

[adc82140]

I am guessing that you don't live alone in a small flat? Anyone in that circumstance really isn't going to find it easier.

You can still socially bubble with another household. There is no official register of social bubbles, not that I'd be encouraging the flexing of rules or anything like that.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 1 Nov 2020 ==

Yet another post that belittles teachers.

Did I miss an announcement about strike action? A work to rule perhaps? Err, no.

Please stop this nonsense of taking anything the teaching unions say as being in any way representative of the overwhelming majority of teachers.

It's only one teaching union that's saying anything anyway, and that's the National Education Union. They are the ones who wanted to spray kids with disinfectant.

The more mainstream ones like the NUT and NASUWT have been rather muted.

 

[Skimpot flyer]

Boris had better realise that if shops and hospitality are closed over Christmas, he will be toast come the local elections in May.

I also have no doubt that if the English lockdown is extended, Nicola Sturgeon will ease the restrictions in Scotland in the run up to Christmas just to make herself look better, in advance of the elections ...

You are assuming that elections will go ahead.
It is not difficult to imagine a scenario where, having already been under virtual house arrest for several months*, government would postpone all elections on the grounds that no ‘Covid secure’ way of running polling stations could be found. I can visualise it now: whoever is in office saying ‘the risk of people from numerous households all mingling would undo the efforts and all the sacrifices the Great British have made’ or some such platitude. (They already postponed the 2020 London Mayoral election, of course).

*I see Gove has already hinted what many of us have long suspected: this second lockdown will likely last all winter

 

[ABB125]

There's always the possibility of refusing to work on the grounds of health and safety, though doing that might be hard to organise across the board.

I don't really think that'll happen.

Can I ask those of you slagging off teachers in this thread to remember that most teachers, like my eldest daughter, are working their whatsits off to cope with keeping children safe at the same time as preparing both face to face and remote learning lessons (the latter for children who are self-isolating), delivering face to face lessons, emailing material to special needs and self isolating children, reviewing and commenting on work, writing up all the bureaucratic forms that the DoE now demands ... oh, and serving lunches in the class room.

You have no idea ....

I fully agree, the vast majority of teachers are working really hard, and are happy to be teaching again. Unfortunately, the vocal minority cause issues, and a certain amount of prejudice.
Apologies if I have caused any offence, that was not my intention.

 

[sjpowermac]

It's only one teaching union that's saying anything anyway, and that's the National Education Union. They are the ones who wanted to spray kids with disinfectant.

The more mainstream ones like the NUT and NASUWT have been rather muted.

The NUT doesn’t exist anymore, it merged with the ATL to form the NEU.

The points I’m making are:

1. We have been here before in May/August with union posturing and on those occasions teachers did exactly as their employers told them to. Teachers will turn up for work this time around too and the government will pay no attention to the unions.

2. Schools are actually open on Monday!

 

[peters]

I heard something about "exercise and recreation" being a reasonable purpose for being out. So we might be lucky.

This time it is within the rules to visit a public outdoor place like a park or garden, not specifically for exercise. You can either do this with your household or with one person outside your household but in you choose the latter that's instead of going with people from your household, not as well as.

The advice is to walk or cycle where possible but it would be entirely within the rules to take a train from Liverpool Central to Birkenhead Park, for example, for recreation. The advice would then be to avoid peak time services.

Also, Boris clarified that, with the exception of people who work at the businesses forced to close, everyone who can't work from home should be commuting to work. That means if any train operator tries to claim their services are reserved for key workers then they've made up their own rules and aren't following government guidance.

 

[Bantamzen]

Can I ask those of you slagging off teachers in this thread to remember that most teachers, like my eldest daughter, are working their whatsits off to cope with keeping children safe at the same time as preparing both face to face and remote learning lessons (the latter for children who are self-isolating), delivering face to face lessons, emailing material to special needs and self isolating children, reviewing and commenting on work, writing up all the bureaucratic forms that the DoE now demands ... oh, and serving lunches in the class room.

You have no idea ....

I don't think anyone here is slagging off teachers, however they are not the only ones working their arses off, some of us having been doing so all year without a single mention.

Amazingly, I managed to get through the total initial lockdown, plus the recent Tier 3 Merseyside restrictions without eating a single Kettle crisp, Dairy Milk or drinking an endless can of multipack beer. It's down to a little-known trait called self-control. People should try it.

So what exactly is wrong with digging into a packet of crisps with a beer?

Conversely I think many will find a November lockdown easier. A lot of people post bonfire night go in to a semi hibernation this time of year. The weather is crap, and the nights are long. In the spring we wanted to be out and about, visiting places, planning days out, planning our summer holidays.

I couldn't disagree more, the prospect of getting out to the pub / shops / cinema / football or whatever is what keeps a lot of people going through winter. Sitting at home staring at the walls when it is cold, damp & dark outside is a nightmare.

 

[peters]

That is of course true but in reality only a fraction of people who would have gone out to exercise in April and May will do so in November & December.

Which may be why visiting a public outdoor place, not specifically for exercise, is allowed this time. If the government had said that last time we would have likely had some very crowded parks and beaches on sunny days but we probably won't this time.

 

[ABB125]

This time it is within the rules to visit a public outdoor place like a park or garden, not specifically for exercise. You can either do this with your household or with one person outside your household but in you choose the latter that's instead of going with people from your household, not as well as.

The advice is to walk or cycle where possible but it would be entirely within the rules to take a train from Liverpool Central to Birkenhead Park, for example, for recreation. The advice would then be to avoid peak time services.

Also, Boris clarified that, with the exception of people who work at the businesses forced to close, everyone who can't work from home should be commuting to work. That means if any train operator tries to claim their services are reserved for key workers then they've made up their own rules and aren't following government guidance.

So theoretically I could decide to go for a walk on the Isle of Wight, that happens to start and end on the platform at Shanklin station and be from one end to the other?

 

[Peter Sarf]

I had a telephone conversation with my dad last night and we both commented on when this whole nightmare is going to end.

For example, we are subject to a second lockdown caused by a second wave of the virus.

Are we likely to get a third wave in the Spring? Then Boris puts us into a third lockdown when cases go through the roof yet again.

If we get a 3rd wave, then do we get a 4th wave and so on?

There has to come a point when this just cannot continue. It is starting to feel like that endless roller-coaster tide that no one can get off.

CJ

Fingers crossed this will be the last significant wave. Well maybe it will be a double/treble peak one if the lockdown is (hopefully) switched off and on through the winter rather than being one long continuous lockdown. My point is that I doubt things will be as bad next year (2021) Spring (late), Summer and Autumn(early) as they were for the same period this year 2020. But I expect Winter to be the biggest challenge. The warmer and drier weather seems to curtail most viruses.

Remains to be seen how bad late-2021 to early-2022 is though. I would hope a vaccine has come along by then. More importantly we are progressing by identifying existing treatments and medications that reduce the need for hospital intensive care. From what I see it is not really number of deaths that bothers me but an overwhelmed NHS. The Winter is a strain for the NHS in a normal year so we need to be extra protective of the NHS during Winter - even if Covid-19 does not flourish in the winter.

The NHS is in a backlog situation before we even enter Winter. My partners private hospital has never been so busy with outpatients diverted to her hospital from the NHS. So I knew (feared) a lockdown was inevitable. I just hoped that all the cheaper and easier precautions would have helped reduce the need for a lockdown. I mean precautions like masks, cleanliness, working from home and reduced (not eliminated) socialising.

No doubt masses of people will give the virus one last chance on Thursday night by going out partying for the last time.

Positive tests do not necessarily equate to illness or risk of death. In fact for the vast majority of the population, the risk of death is statistically insignificant. It is time for the world to stop treating this virus like the plague and to start accepting that we will have to learn to live with it, just as we have done for all the other viruses out there. Then we can get on with the serious business of looking after those most at risk.

We do have to learn to live with Covid-19 as I doubt it will ever be eliminated. We need an NHS that can cope with it by having enough resources to help all those who need it. Currently we are seeing people die on non-Covid19 illnesses just because they cannot get treatment. I am not interested in death rates as much as I am petrified by the rate of admissions to hospitals.

Can I ask those of you slagging off teachers in this thread to remember that most teachers, like my eldest daughter, are working their whatsits off to cope with keeping children safe at the same time as preparing both face to face and remote learning lessons (the latter for children who are self-isolating), delivering face to face lessons, emailing material to special needs and self isolating children, reviewing and commenting on work, writing up all the bureaucratic forms that the DoE now demands ... oh, and serving lunches in the class room.

You have no idea ....

Here here.

My mother was a teacher and it was a hard job before Covid19 ever came on the scene. The dedication and hours put in were quite a lot. I have had easier and better paid jobs by choosing not to follow in her footsteps.

Amazingly, I managed to get through the total initial lockdown, plus the recent Tier 3 Merseyside restrictions without eating a single Kettle crisp, Dairy Milk or drinking an endless can of multipack beer. It's down to a little-known trait called self-control. People should try it.

Self control. A little known phenomenon.

Yes I am not unfit. I never joined a gym because I know I might spend more than I use it. I just walk where I can and briskly. Though at 60 I am getting a bit fond of my comfortable car !.

But how many people are actually going to bother at this time of year? Plus it's dark in the evenings now.

Just because it is dark does not mean you cannot go for a walk. Or run if you are younger than me !. I do notice most people retreat into their homes as the nights draw in so the TV wins. So maybe a lockdown this time of year will not be so frustrating as many of us are stuck indoors anyway.

 

[trebor79]

*I see Gove has already hinted what many of us have long suspected: this second lockdown will likely last all winter

Gove and Starmer both saying it should stay in place until R is below 1. This just reveals their total ignorance. Do they think it will magically stay below 1 once it's lifted.
Personally, if we are having a lockdown, I believe the trigger for lifting it should be an effective test, trace and isolate system. But they've said precious little about that, other than acknowledging it's crap.

 

[Peter Sarf]

Which may be why visiting a public outdoor place, not specifically for exercise, is allowed this time. If the government had said that last time we would have likely had some very crowded parks and beaches on sunny days but we probably won't this time.

Um I just thought about swimming in the sea.

But, you are right, I hope this (Winter) lockdown might allow more outdoor activities.

 

[trebor79]

Um I just thought about swimming in the sea.

But, you are right, I hope this (Winter) lockdown might allow more outdoor activities.

So far as I can see there's very little restriction on outdoor activities. I predict a lot of families meeting up for walks in the countryside, that's certainly what I intend to do.

 

[Bikeman78]

There‘s absolutely nothing stopping people going for a bike ride, walk, run, doing outdoor exercises etc. I’ve actually lost 3 stone since March. Hopefully the traffic levels are reduced substantially again and cycling will be a lot easier.

Traffic has not reduced much in Cardiff I'm afraid.

 

[Peter Sarf]

Gove and Starmer both saying it should stay in place until R is below 1. This just reveals their total ignorance. Do they think it will magically stay below 1 once it's lifted.
Personally, if we are having a lockdown, I believe the trigger for lifting it should be an effective test, trace and isolate system. But they've said precious little about that, other than acknowledging it's crap.

I think lockdowns will inevitably come in late due to the desire to avoid the drawbacks (jobs, sanity etc). But then the lockdown will be released late as well. I expect that Boris and Co would have caved in for calls for a lockdown at the end of September if they wanted to ignore the economic and psychological drawbacks. Problem is that the bigger the delay in lockdowns then the bigger the see-saw effect.

 

[Bikeman78]

Yes, it’s quite a spectacle to see posters, especially those who enjoy the very strong protection of ASLEF, wading in and being critical of teachers.

Here is a little example of how things are different between the two professions. Back in May there was uproar when it was suggested that train drivers use empty trains parked in platforms to provide an overflow for messrooms subject to social distancing. As a result of ASLEF intervention all manor of alternative arrangements were made for drivers, including the use of First Class lounges. Compare and contrast with schools where once a workroom/staff room is full there is no alternative but to sit out in the corridor.

The ‘safety’ measures put in place by schools at the behest of the government have done a great job of spreading the virus.

I don't understand how we ever expected to "control" a virus in schools. As I've said repeatedly, if colds can spread, so can Covid.

 

[trebor79]

I think lockdowns will inevitably come in late due to the desire to avoid the drawbacks (jobs, sanity etc). But then the lockdown will be released late as well. I expect that Boris and Co would have caved in for calls for a lockdown at the end of September if they wanted to ignore the economic and psychological drawbacks. Problem is that the bigger the delay in lockdowns then the bigger the see-saw effect.

I think they would have gained a lot of respect in the medium term if they'd been honest with people as said we just have to ride it out.

 

[Domh245]

Fingers crossed this will be the last significant wave.

So long as we keep intensively testing for it, and arbitrarily preventing it's spread, we'll keep seeing "waves" until we reach a state of herd immunity.

 

[peters]

So theoretically I could decide to go for a walk on the Isle of Wight, that happens to start and end on the platform at Shanklin station and be from one end to the other?

I expect we'll hear government ministers talking about 'staying local' again and different interpretations of what that means. I recall last time Gove said the amount of time driving to and from a beauty spot must be shorter than the amount of time you spend exercising there. The problem with that was it meant you could simply adjust your walking speed to keep within the guideline.

 

[ABB125]

I expect we'll hear government ministers talking about 'staying local' again and different interpretations of what that means. I recall last time Gove said the amount of time driving to and from a beauty spot must be shorter than the amount of time you spend exercising there. The problem with that was it meant you could simply adjust your walking speed to keep within the guideline.

That's kind of what I'm expecting unfortunately. And I'd start to struggle to have enough time in the day to get to the Island (at least 5 hours), go on a long walk, and then get back again!
But of course, that's the whole point.

 

[SuspectUsual]

I won a tenner off my son this morning. After last night’s announcement I bet him that one of the “big four”, but not Johnson, would be on Marr and/or the Sky News version gently nudging the narrative towards an open ended lockdown.

Personally, I don’t think there’s a cat in hells chance that this will end on 2 December - it’ll last all winter, albeit with a break of four or five days (most likely Xmas Eve to the 29th as that’s the Boxing Day bank holiday). There’ll be a massive effort to ban any sort of New Year’s Eve partying too

Note - this is what I think will happen, not what I think should happen

 

[ABB125]

I won a tenner off my son this morning. After last night’s announcement I bet him that one of the “big four”, but not Johnson, would be on Marr and/or the Sky News version gently nudging the narrative towards an open ended lockdown.

Personally, I don’t think there’s a cat in hells chance that this will end on 2 December - it’ll last all winter, albeit with a break of four or five days (most likely Xmas Eve to the 29th as that’s the Boxing Day bank holiday). There’ll be a massive effort to ban any sort of New Year’s Eve partying too

Note - this is what I think will happen, not what I think should happen

I'm not convinced it'll end on the 2nd either - having said that, it may do, just not in December!

 

[Yew]

I do notice most people retreat into their homes as the nights draw in so the TV wins. So maybe a lockdown this time of year will not be so frustrating as many of us are stuck indoors anyway.

I'd argue it's worse, all my summer activities are off the board due to it being too cold, and all those I would normally do are now forbidden.

 

[peters]

I think lockdowns will inevitably come in late due to the desire to avoid the drawbacks (jobs, sanity etc). But then the lockdown will be released late as well. I expect that Boris and Co would have caved in for calls for a lockdown at the end of September if they wanted to ignore the economic and psychological drawbacks. Problem is that the bigger the delay in lockdowns then the bigger the see-saw effect.

If you look to the Balkans you can see what happens when lockdowns occur earlier. Greece shut down very early for the 1st phase, compared to other countries, apparently this was due to concerns with how well their health system could cope with a major outbreak. Then despite allowing in large numbers of tourists from other countries for 4 months everything remained open and it was reporting some of the lowest infection rates in Europe. There were some stricter rules in place and some tourists were selected for random testing on arrival. But we are now starting to see some parts of Greece go in to partial lockdown again now.

 

[Carlisle]

I'm not convinced it'll end on the 2nd either - having said that, it may do, just not in December!

I’d think it’d be unlikely to go beyond somewhere around 15th-20th December max, given It’d be politically unacceptable to cancel Christmas completely especially if other home nations & Ireland aren’t following suit

 

[DB]

I’d think it’d be unlikely to go beyond somewhere around 15th-20th December max, given It’d be politically unacceptable to cancel Christmas completely especially if other home nations & Ireland aren’t following suit

I suspect you may be right - but they may well just impose another one straight after christmas

 

[35B]

I’d think it’d be unlikely to go beyond somewhere around 15th-20th December max, given It’d be politically unacceptable to cancel Christmas completely especially if other home nations & Ireland aren’t following suit

We’d better all hope that the hospitals don’t fill up then. Because if they’re all full with medics working flat out to stay on top of Covid related cases, the case for continued lockdown will be a whole lot stronger than you or I would want it to be.

I’d love to meet family over Christmas, but playing roulette over whether the presents will include a family dose of Covid sure takes the gloss off for me.