Lockdown in England from Thursday 5 November until Wednesday 2 December

[Bantamzen]

I really hope so. There's lots of good reasons to keep the schools open.

Do you really think that common sense will prevail when there are so many idiots driving the narrative?

 

[bramling]

Do you really think that common sense will prevail when there are so many idiots driving the narrative?

Probably not, sadly. This country has completely lost sense.

There's clearly more going on behind the scenes. All three of them on yesterday's floor-show were visibly stressed and flustered, and the delivery was anything but slick.

 

[Bantamzen]

Probably not, sadly. This country has completely lost sense.

Sadly its not just this country, much of the world has descended into pure fear driven stupidity.

 

[bramling]

Sadly its not just this country, much of the world has descended into pure fear driven stupidity.

At least most countries don't have the unique feature of four separate constituents all managing to work against each other, and a bumbling leader who seems to always choose the *worst* way of doing things.

 

[C J Snarzell]

I am really angry about all of this.

I was keeping my fingers crossed that Boris would allow gyms to remain open but no. I do about an hours exercise most days in the local gym and now that little pleasure has been taken away from me.

This country has got a recognised obesity epidemic, but all BJ has done is force on us an unhealthy lifestyle. Who is going to enjoy outdoor exercise in November? Last week saw the biggest amount of rainfall for most of the year. Everyone is going to be confined indoors eating Kettle crisps, Dairy Milk or drinking endless cans of multipack beer from the supermarket. Therefore piling on the pounds ready for Christmas!

I do agree that education should still keep going but there has to be tighter control of student behaviour on campus. Some people might think this is Daconian, but everyone in the Country is in lockdown - so the students need to tow the line. The Nottingham incident should be used as a template for students living off campas - have a party and get a £10,000 fine (each!).

The issue the police have is that both domestic violence and mental health incidents will increase ten fold in the next four weeks. Mental health is easy to explain why - all of us on this forum can understand people's isolation and the time of year is adding to all the misery. Domestic violence is usually several factors mainly with alcohol and being confined in doors for prolonged periods. The police are already over stretched with all of the Covid breaches so how are they going to police all of this?

Finally, have the government scrapped the Tier nonscene? I'm expecting, that come the 2nd December, we will see Tiers come back - it won't just be floodgates open for Christmas.

CJ

 

[bramling]

I am really angry about all of this.

I was keeping my fingers crossed that Boris would allow gyms to remain open but no. I do about an hours exercise most days in the local gym and now that little pleasure has been taken away from me.

This country has got a recognised obesity epidemic, but all BJ has done is force on us an unhealthy lifestyle.

And this is a very good point. I've put on weight this year for various reasons, and missing out on the various UK holidays we'd planned for the spring has not helped, as our holidays are normally pretty outdoors-focussed and active. A friend of mine who has been shielding has now gone from being slightly overweight to being pretty much morbidly obese.

I do agree that education should still keep going but there has to be tighter control of student behaviour on campus. Some people might think this is Daconian, but everyone in the Country is in lockdown - so the students need to tow the line. The Nottingham incident should be used as a template for students living off campas - have a party and get a £10,000 fine (each!).

Yes I agree some of the student antics have been taking the proverbial.

Finally, have the government scrapped the Tier nonscene? I'm expecting, that come the 2nd December, we will see Tiers come back - it won't just be floodgates open for Christmas.

Christmas is going to be a shambles, I think that much is certain!

 

[adc82140]

Three weeks of lockdown and normality by winter.

Big difference between March and now. In March they said it would be "reviewed in 3 weeks", now they have said categorically that it ends at the beginning of December, and each area will go in to tiers 1, 2 or 3. Even if the whole country was tier 3, it would be significantly less restrictive than a national lockdown.

If Drakeford keeps to his word on November 9th, Johnson will have to follow suit as he is terrified of the devolved administrations.

 

[C J Snarzell]

I had a telephone conversation with my dad last night and we both commented on when this whole nightmare is going to end.

For example, we are subject to a second lockdown caused by a second wave of the virus.

Are we likely to get a third wave in the Spring? Then Boris puts us into a third lockdown when cases go through the roof yet again.

If we get a 3rd wave, then do we get a 4th wave and so on?

There has to come a point when this just cannot continue. It is starting to feel like that endless roller-coaster tide that no one can get off.

CJ

 

[55002]

Do you really think that common sense will prevail when there are so many idiots driving the narrative?

if you’re a teacher, you’ve just watched the clown in charge, tell everyone it’s not safe to leave your homes, but apparently it’s ok to go and work in schools with loads of kidsmin a confined indoor area, you Can see why there may be concern. There’s teachers and kids off all over the country with positive tests, which then means year group bubbles having to self isolate.

 

[bramling]

I had a telephone conversation with my dad last night and we both commented on when this whole nightmare is going to end.

For example, we are subject to a second lockdown caused by a second wave of the virus.

Are we likely to get a third wave in the Spring? Then Boris puts us into a third lockdown when cases go through the roof yet again.

If we get a 3rd wave, then do we get a 4th wave and so on?

There has to come a point when this just cannot continue. It is starting to feel like that endless roller-coaster tide that no one can get off.

CJ

The key will be to what extent people comply with this. I have my suspicions compliance is going to be quite low, particularly with rules on mixing of households. I just can't see people sitting in their living rooms for four weeks.

I have yet to speak to anyone who supports this. The general view is very much that this is a complete farce.

 

[Bantamzen]

if you’re a teacher, you’ve just watched the clown in charge, tell everyone it’s not safe to leave your homes, but apparently it’s ok to go and work in schools with loads of kidsmin a confined indoor area, you Can see why there may be concern. There’s teachers and kids off all over the country with positive tests, which then means year group bubbles having to self isolate.

Positive tests do not necessarily equate to illness or risk of death. In fact for the vast majority of the population, the risk of death is statistically insignificant. It is time for the world to stop treating this virus like the plague and to start accepting that we will have to learn to live with it, just as we have done for all the other viruses out there. Then we can get on with the serious business of looking after those most at risk.

 

[6862]

Its interesting how a study like ZOE which used to be used support the lockdown narrative when it was saying rates of infection were high and increasing is now ignored when it says that the rates are not increasing rapidly.

(Link is a video from Prof Tim Spector from the ZOE team).

I think Vallance and Whitty are doing some blatant data selection to justify this lockdown.

 

[big_rig]

if you’re a teacher, you’ve just watched the clown in charge, tell everyone it’s not safe to leave your homes, but apparently it’s ok to go and work in schools with loads of kidsmin a confined indoor area, you Can see why there may be concern. There’s teachers and kids off all over the country with positive tests, which then means year group bubbles having to self isolate.

I don’t think this is right, sorry. He explicitly did not say it isn’t safe to leave you house, but that doing so increases spread of a virus which is essentially irrelevant for nearly all of the working and school age population, and dangerous for a section of the elderly and frail, and that slowing that spread by banning people from working or enjoying themselves is required but that education is too important to stop.

In my opinion if teachers do not want to educate children in person then they should find a different profession, namely unemployment. If we had a ready supply of teachers available to pick up the slack I’d happily fire those who refuse to do so but sadly we don’t.

Also sadly it has not taken long but I see the wording has changed in an interview with Michael Gove - 2 December is now a ‘review date’ and it ‘could be extended’ depending on what the data shows.

 

[adc82140]

Michael Gove has just come on Sky News to say that the lockdown could be extended. This gives me cause for optimism, because the opposite of what Gove says normally happens.

 

[C J Snarzell]

Gove

Michael Gove has just come on Sky News to say that the lockdown could be extended. This gives me cause for optimism, because the opposite of what Gove says normally happens.

Gove could become Scrooge - no Christmas this year then.

CJ

 

[sjpowermac]

Meanwhile we now have teaching unions agitating. What's the betting we end up with schools being closed after all?

You have made the classic mistake there of thinking that the teaching unions have any power at all. I understand where your confusion comes from, the railway unions (ASLEF in particular) have considerable power and it is easy to suppose that other unions have the same.

Do you remember back in May (when some year groups returned) and September (when schools fully reopened) when the ‘militant’ teaching unions were supposedly going to prevent this? The reality was that the government completely ignored them.

If the schools were to close (and I think it is unlikely they will) it would be more likely to be because of rates of infection, as mentioned in this ONS report:

Coronavirus (COVID-19) Infection Survey, UK - Office for National Statistics

Estimates for England, Wales and Northern Ireland. This survey is being delivered in partnership with University of Oxford, University of Manchester, Public Health England and Wellcome Trust.

www.ons.gov.uk

while rates (of infection) appear to be steeply increasing among secondary school children.

Figure 5 in the report shows rates of infection increasing in secondary school children (Years 7 to 11 or in age terms 12 to 16) but levelling off in the Year 12 to age 24 group. Do feel free to argue with the ONS figures, I’m merely suggesting that they are something the government might take into consideration.

To be clear, I think that it is important that schools do remain open, but please stop with the notion that the teaching unions have any power.

 

[ABB125]

To be clear, I think that it is important that schools do remain open, but please stop with the notion that the teaching unions have any power.

They do have some power: the power to irritate!

 

[bramling]

They do have some power: the power to irritate!

There's always the possibility of refusing to work on the grounds of health and safety, though doing that might be hard to organise across the board.

 

[duncanp]

Michael Gove has just come on Sky News to say that the lockdown could be extended. This gives me cause for optimism, because the opposite of what Gove says normally happens.

Yes, Private Eye had it right earlier this year.

Boris had better realise that if shops and hospitality are closed over Christmas, he will be toast come the local elections in May.

Not only that, but many businesses will go under if they cannot trade over the Christmas period, as they will be relying on Christmas shopping and an extended January sales period to make up for lost income this year.

I also have no doubt that if the English lockdown is extended, Nicola Sturgeon will ease the restrictions in Scotland in the run up to Christmas just to make herself look better, in advance of the elections in Scotland.

 

[DerekC]

Can I ask those of you slagging off teachers in this thread to remember that most teachers, like my eldest daughter, are working their whatsits off to cope with keeping children safe at the same time as preparing both face to face and remote learning lessons (the latter for children who are self-isolating), delivering face to face lessons, emailing material to special needs and self isolating children, reviewing and commenting on work, writing up all the bureaucratic forms that the DoE now demands ... oh, and serving lunches in the class room.

You have no idea ....

 

[TheSel]

... Everyone is going to be confined indoors eating Kettle crisps, Dairy Milk or drinking endless cans of multipack beer from the supermarket. ...

Amazingly, I managed to get through the total initial lockdown, plus the recent Tier 3 Merseyside restrictions without eating a single Kettle crisp, Dairy Milk or drinking an endless can of multipack beer. It's down to a little-known trait called self-control. People should try it.

 

[C J Snarzell]

The issue with school environments is that I remember as a teenager, classrooms in the winter were like a magnet for viruses with the heating being on full wack and doors & windows kept closed.

Some of the old buildings have long gone - both my primary & secondary were demolished in the early 2000s. In their place, we now have well built air conditioned buildings, but sadly the threat is still there for this virus to circulate among staff and pupils.

My guess is that next year's exams will be shelved like the exams for 2020, with students/pupils given an overall academic pass.

CJ

 

[DB]

Can I ask those of you slagging off teachers in this thread to remember that most teachers, like my eldest daughter, are working their whatsits off to cope with keeping children safe at the same time as preparing both face to face and remote learning lessons (the latter for children who are self-isolating), delivering face to face lessons, emailing material to special needs and self isolating children, reviewing and commenting on work, writing up all the bureaucratic forms that the DoE now demands ... oh, and serving lunches in the class room.

You have no idea ....

No doubt it's just a minority of very vocal teachers complaining, while the rest just get on with the job without any fuss.

Trouble is, throughout this situation the government has tended to listen to vocal minorities.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 1 Nov 2020 ==

The issue with school environments is that I remember as a teenager, classrooms in the winter were like a magnet for viruses with the heating being on full wack and doors & windows kept closed.

Some of the old buildings have long gone - both my primary & secondary were demolished in the early 2000s. In their place, we now have well built air conditioned buildings, but sadly the threat is still there for this virus to circulate among staff and pupils.

My guess is that next year's exams will be shelved like the exams for 2020, with students/pupils given an overall academic pass.

CJ

If this situation is still going on in June next year, when exams will be taking place, qualifications will be fairly useless anyway as there will be no jobs to go to.

 

[sjpowermac]

There's always the possibility of refusing to work on the grounds of health and safety, though doing that might be hard to organise across the board.

Again, if you are referring to teachers, you’ve made the same mistake...

 

[MalaiseForever]

Amazingly, I managed to get through the total initial lockdown, plus the recent Tier 3 Merseyside restrictions without eating a single Kettle crisp, Dairy Milk or drinking an endless can of multipack beer. It's down to a little-known trait called self-control. People should try it.

There‘s absolutely nothing stopping people going for a bike ride, walk, run, doing outdoor exercises etc. I’ve actually lost 3 stone since March. Hopefully the traffic levels are reduced substantially again and cycling will be a lot easier.

 

[DB]

There‘s absolutely nothing stopping people going for a bike ride, walk, run, doing outdoor exercises etc. I’ve actually lost 3 stone since March. Hopefully the traffic levels are reduced substantially again and cycling will be a lot easier.

But how many people are actually going to bother at this time of year? Plus it's dark in the evenings now.

 

[Hadders]

if you’re a teacher, you’ve just watched the clown in charge, tell everyone it’s not safe to leave your homes, but apparently it’s ok to go and work in schools with loads of kidsmin a confined indoor area, you Can see why there may be concern. There’s teachers and kids off all over the country with positive tests, which then means year group bubbles having to self isolate.

Teachers aren't the only people in this position. There are many people that need to keep working to keep services going be they hospitals, supermarkets etc. If I were a teacher I'd be grateful that I was still working and being paid a full wage, unlike many other people.

Can I ask those of you slagging off teachers in this thread to remember that most teachers, like my eldest daughter, are working their whatsits off to cope with keeping children safe at the same time as preparing both face to face and remote learning lessons (the latter for children who are self-isolating), delivering face to face lessons, emailing material to special needs and self isolating children, reviewing and commenting on work, writing up all the bureaucratic forms that the DoE now demands ... oh, and serving lunches in the class room.

You have no idea ....

I agree, there are lots of people working very hard.

 

[Class 33]

Michael Gove has just come on Sky News to say that the lockdown could be extended. This gives me cause for optimism, because the opposite of what Gove says normally happens.

It doesn't give me any optimism. Before this full national lockdown has even started, government ministers are now saying it could be extended again. The thought that this full national lockdown could possibly last at least 7 or 8 weeks is not a good thought atall. Many many people will just not be able to cope with 7 or 8 weeks of this madness again. It's not good for mental health atall. But it appears the government don't worry about that!

 

[sjpowermac]

Can I ask those of you slagging off teachers in this thread to remember that most teachers, like my eldest daughter, are working their whatsits off to cope with keeping children safe at the same time as preparing both face to face and remote learning lessons (the latter for children who are self-isolating), delivering face to face lessons, emailing material to special needs and self isolating children, reviewing and commenting on work, writing up all the bureaucratic forms that the DoE now demands ... oh, and serving lunches in the class room.

You have no idea ....

Yes, it’s quite a spectacle to see posters, especially those who enjoy the very strong protection of ASLEF, wading in and being critical of teachers.

Here is a little example of how things are different between the two professions. Back in May there was uproar when it was suggested that train drivers use empty trains parked in platforms to provide an overflow for messrooms subject to social distancing. As a result of ASLEF intervention all manor of alternative arrangements were made for drivers, including the use of First Class lounges. Compare and contrast with schools where once a workroom/staff room is full there is no alternative but to sit out in the corridor.

The ‘safety’ measures put in place by schools at the behest of the government have done a great job of spreading the virus.

 

[adc82140]

Conversely I think many will find a November lockdown easier. A lot of people post bonfire night go in to a semi hibernation this time of year. The weather is crap, and the nights are long. In the spring we wanted to be out and about, visiting places, planning days out, planning our summer holidays.