the most over the top restrictions introduced

[Mag_seven]

However, we need exposure to pathogens to keep our immune system active

Indeed we do - except exposure to COVID for some reason.

 

[DelayRepay]

Regarding the hotel, I think poor customer service but not an OTT Covid restriction. Poor service comes from the fact that they didn't explain the rules properly to the customer. When it was discovered that the customer didn't know his breakfast slot was fixed, the appropriate response would have been "let's see when we can fit you in".

Related, my friend told me about a pub where you are only allowed in if you have booked a table. Fair enough because it's quite small inside. But you can get around this by phoning the pub while you're stood outside the front door and making a booking (provided they have space). Friend went in without phoning and was told to go back outside and phone, even though the place appeared empty. The bar maid was very apologetic but seemed to be under the impression that the law only allowed them to accommodate pre-booked customers. I am not surprised they are being cautious though; I know another pub that has received a 'warning' from the council because someone reported that another customer had been served at the bar instead of having his drink brought to the table.

Regarding M&S, I am not keen on mandatory hand sanitizing, but I do generally sanitize when it's available (I carry my own, but if the shop's providing it I'll use theirs). The last M&S I visited had their own brand sanitizer on the door and it smelt very nice indeed! Much better than the cheap rubbish some shops have.

 

[Skimpot flyer]

And I'd inform you that you were unwelcome to ever return to my store. Large stores will not suffer from the loss of one customer. Ryanair has made a successful business of telling people who are awkward that they aren't worth their while catering for.

Unless you have an allergy, in which case (a) say so, and (b) use whatever you've brought yourself as a non-allergic alternative in front of them, you are just being stubborn for the sake of being stubborn and just making the shop's job hard for no particular reason.

No, I’m not being stubborn, I’m exercising my choice of where I want to shop.
Nowhere in the government guidelines does it state that customers must use hand sanitiser

Reducing the spread of respiratory infections, including COVID-19, in the workplace

Public health principles for reducing the spread of respiratory infections, including COVID-19, in the workplace.

www.gov.uk

1. Clean more often. Increase how often you clean surfaces, especially those that are being touched a lot. Ask your staff and your customers to use hand sanitiser and wash their hands frequently.

 

[adc82140]

Is it permitted for a shop to mandate sanitising upon entry, given that some people may have allergies to the substances used in the sanitiser?

I'm allergic to the cheap alcohol based stuff. That's what two decades in the health service sanitising a gazillion times a day does to your skin. I carry my own foaming sanitiser, which I'm happy to show anyone on a store entrance and use in front of them, but I've still encountered silly sods insisting I use theirs, even when I've mentioned to them politely that some of my professional background is in infection control. Staff need to be better trained.

 

[bramling]

However, we need exposure to pathogens to keep our immune system active, what effect is all this sanitising having? As an aside most shops I've been in don't insist on sanitising hands, is it's requirement? I don't know so is an honest question.

I’ve noticed an increasing number of places seem to be mandating it, though most just have it on display with a sign saying something like “please use”.

I agree there’s a danger of over sanitising. Eventually this is another thing which will have to be scaled back, though now’s probably not the time for that.

 

[Bantamzen]

However, we need exposure to pathogens to keep our immune system active, what effect is all this sanitising having? As an aside most shops I've been in don't insist on sanitising hands, is it's requirement? I don't know so is an honest question.

And this is another concern. Short term it shouldn't be a problem, longer term definitely something we need to think about. As you say, we need exposure to keep our immune systems functioning.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Well here's an example of COSHH assessment of on alcohol based gel:

https://ultracleanltd.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/COSHH-assessment-Alcohol-Hand-Sanitiser.pdf

So don't sniff your fingers, lick your fingers or rub your eyes after applying it. Seems a bit obvious to me.

So maybe we do want to assess this a bit more. It also begs the question, do all places have a valid COSHH assessment for the types of sanitisers they are using? If they are a requirement of entry, should they be making this information available? I'm actually going to randomly ask when next I am advised to apply some.

Before you do, think about the effect this stubborn, picky and petty argumentativeness is having on low-wage staff monitoring these sorts of thing who didn't come up with the rules and have had a bad enough day already so far having been argued with about all sorts of things.

Just use it. If you hate it that much, stay at home and shop wholly online.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 18 Oct 2020 ==

And this is another concern. Short term it shouldn't be a problem, longer term definitely something we need to think about. As you say, we need exposure to keep our immune systems functioning.

Long-term, yes. The couple of years or so at most this is likely to last (as every pandemic in history has, pretty much) is a spit in the ocean of a typical 70+ year life.

In the meantime, getting argumentative about this is just going to make a low-paid member of staff even less happy in their jobs than they already are. If you want to argue about it, writing to the head office would take the issue closer to the people whose rule it is.

 

[Bantamzen]

So don't sniff your fingers, lick your fingers or rub your eyes after applying it. Seems a bit obvious to me.

What a flippant response. You do understand why we have COSHH assessments in the first place? I do find it interesting though for someone who is keen on sticking to rules and regulations, you seem happy enough to ignore them when it doesn't suit.

Before you do, think about the effect this stubborn, picky and petty argumentativeness is having on low-wage staff monitoring these sorts of thing who didn't come up with the rules and have had a bad enough day already so far having been argued with about all sorts of things.

Just use it. If you hate it that much, stay at home and shop wholly online.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 18 Oct 2020 ==



Long-term, yes. The couple of years or so at most this is likely to last (as every pandemic in history has, pretty much) is a spit in the ocean of a typical 70+ year life.

In the meantime, getting argumentative about this is just going to make a low-paid member of staff even less happy in their jobs than they already are. If you want to argue about it, writing to the head office would take the issue closer to the people whose rule it is.

Well you are going to hate me for this, but the COSHH regulations are there for a reason. It is not unreasonable to ask a company for sight of the COSHH assessment, particularly where use of chemicals may be mandatory. So asking a member of staff if they know if such an assessment has been undertaken (technically their company should have informed them) & if they do not, who I might be able to enquire with. Look at it this way, you arrive at a store with say an automatic but unbranded dispenser. How do you know that what is inside it is actually sanitiser at all, or worse still some cheap crap that is poorly made? How do you know that this gel or liquid isn't actually going to be harmful to you? That's why COSHH assessments exist, and why they have to be made available.

 

[Hadders]

Before you do, think about the effect this stubborn, picky and petty argumentativeness is having on low-wage staff monitoring these sorts of thing who didn't come up with the rules and have had a bad enough day already so far having been argued with about all sorts of things.

Well you are going to hate me for this, but the COSHH regulations are there for a reason. It is not unreasonable to ask a company for sight of the COSHH assessment, particularly where use of chemicals may be mandatory. So asking a member of staff if they know if such an assessment has been undertaken (technically their company should have informed them) & if they do not, who I might be able to enquire with. Look at it this way, you arrive at a store with say an automatic but unbranded dispenser. How do you know that what is inside it is actually sanitiser at all, or worse still some cheap crap that is poorly made? How do you know that this gel or liquid isn't actually going to be harmful to you? That's why COSHH assessments exist, and why they have to be made available.

I'm with @Bletchleyite on this. While I see no point in blanket hand sanitising please do not take out your objection to it on shop staff. They have a very, very difficult job at the moment and putting up with harassment, verbal and increasingly physical abuse from the public is not part of their job. By all means take up your objections with the Head Office of the appropriate retailer but please, do not take it out on the staff of the store.

 

[Yew]

Just use it. If you hate it that much, stay at home and shop wholly online.

So It's apparently 'immoral' to ask the vulnerable to stay at home, but okay to ask those who have difficulty with needless regulations to be forced into a life of hermitage?

 

[kez19]

I'm allergic to the cheap alcohol based stuff. That's what two decades in the health service sanitising a gazillion times a day does to your skin. I carry my own foaming sanitiser, which I'm happy to show anyone on a store entrance and use in front of them, but I've still encountered silly sods insisting I use theirs, even when I've mentioned to them politely that some of my professional background is in infection control. Staff need to be better trained.

I have noticed this recently in some shops using their own I have a small reaction to it, scratching my hand is one! I am glad in a way to carry my own

Maybe putting my head in the sand here but surely hand washing “everywhere” is going to have an impact on your body defence? I understand it in the short term but long term I can think damage will be done. (just a thought here doubt there is even info on that)

 

[Bantamzen]

I'm with @Bletchleyite on this. While I see no point in blanket hand sanitising please do not take out your objection to it on shop staff. They have a very, very difficult job at the moment and putting up with harassment, verbal and increasingly physical abuse from the public is not part of their job. By all means take up your objections with the Head Office of the appropriate retailer but please, do not take it out on the staff of the store.

Hold on a second here, who said I was going to object with the staff? I merely said I might ask them if a COSHH assessment was available & if they did not know whom I might ask.

 

[Bletchleyite]

So It's apparently 'immoral' to ask the vulnerable to stay at home, but okay to ask those who have difficulty with needless regulations to be forced into a life of hermitage?

I will go out of my way to help "can'ts", I will not give a moment of the day to "won'ts".

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 18 Oct 2020 ==

Hold on a second here, who said I was going to object with the staff? I merely said I might ask them if a COSHH assessment was available & if they did not know whom I might ask.

That's still going to;
1. cause them unnecessary faff
2. delay others entering

If you want a copy of the COSHH assessment for the sanitiser used at ASDA, say, write to ASDA head office.

 

[Bantamzen]

That's still going to;
1. cause them unnecessary faff
2. delay others entering

If you want a copy of the COSHH assessment for the sanitiser used at ASDA, say, write to ASDA head office.

It would require a conversation of no more than a handful of seconds, and I'm not necessarily going to have it somewhere that leads to people stuck behind me. It could even be as simple as asking the brand name.

 

[Bikeman78]

Is it permitted for a shop to mandate sanitising upon entry, given that some people may have allergies to the substances used in the sanitiser?

I've never been asked to use hand sanitiser at any food shops.

 

[adc82140]

I will go out of my way to help "can'ts", I will not give a moment of the day to "won'ts".

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 18 Oct 2020 ==



That's still going to;
1. cause them unnecessary faff
2. delay others entering

If you want a copy of the COSHH assessment for the sanitiser used at ASDA, say, write to ASDA head office.

Hand sanitiser isn't subject to COSHH anyway. Hand washes that happen to sanitise as well are governed by the relevant cosmetics regulations, dedicated biocidal hand gels are classed as medicines and are regulated by the MHRA. In both of these cases the onus is on the manufacturer to comply before a product is licenced to go on the market, any company like Asda that is using them on the door as a consumer has no requirement to go through any sort of regulatory approval.

 

[A Challenge]

I've never been asked to use hand sanitiser at any food shops.

When I was at Tesco this morning (and indeed other branches previously) they didn't appear to have any hand sanitiser, only a spray thing for cleaning trolley/basket handles - which they should really give you to use when you get them not on entry after you've wheeled it across the car park (though this is only at a large store, not an Express that only has baskets in the entry, which works)

 

[trainophile]

Some places seem to use such thin watery "gel" that I'm sure it is being diluted. TK Maxx is an example of this - all their stores that I've been in it just runs through your fingers.

Also, I do wonder whether any residual "gel" (especially the watery stuff) gets onto items on the rails and shelves. If I were a shopkeeper I would be doubtful about displaying a rack of silk shirts (for example) while everyone is dripping with hand sanitiser. Some places provide a roll of paper to wipe with but not all of them do.

 

[A Challenge]

Some places seem to use such thin watery "gel" that I'm sure it is being diluted. TK Maxx is an example of this - all their stores that I've been in it just runs through your fingers.

Isn't that hand soap in a hand sanitiser dispenser instead of using proper sanitiser?

 

[trainophile]

Isn't that hand soap in a hand sanitiser dispenser instead of using proper sanitiser?

I would hope not or it would leave your hands all sticky. Like when you're on a train and find the toilet has soap but no water!

 

[Bletchleyite]

Some places seem to use such thin watery "gel" that I'm sure it is being diluted. TK Maxx is an example of this - all their stores that I've been in it just runs through your fingers.

That isn't gel, it's simply liquid alcohol - a bit like sanitising your hands with strong moonshine vodka

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 18 Oct 2020 ==

Isn't that hand soap in a hand sanitiser dispenser instead of using proper sanitiser?

No, because without a sink that would be no use at all.

One thing I did come across was sanitiser that felt like soap (i.e. didn't immediately start evaporating) but after about 30 seconds it just magically went. Booths in Windermere had it, and I commented to the member of staff "Have you put soap in there by mistake?" He replied "No, give it 30 seconds and it'll evaporate" - and sure enough it did.

 

[adc82140]

When I was at Tesco this morning (and indeed other branches previously) they didn't appear to have any hand sanitiser, only a spray thing for cleaning trolley/basket handles - which they should really give you to use when you get them not on entry after you've wheeled it across the car park (though this is only at a large store, not an Express that only has baskets in the entry, which works)

They shouldn't give it to you at all. It's theatre, nothing more. That disinfectant needs about 10 minutes contact to work, and should be left to evaporate, and not be wiped off. Sanitise your hands afterwards, rather than the trolley and don't touch your face in the mean time.

 

[island]

Is it permitted for a shop to mandate sanitising upon entry, given that some people may have allergies to the substances used in the sanitiser?

Yes. I would expect them to accept customers producing their own sanitiser and using that in front of the staff member, in case of serious allergies. Customers finding it objectionable may wish to shop online or elsewhere.

Unlike face coverings, good hand hygiene is generally accepted as effective at reducing virus spread.

 

[VauxhallandI]

Staying at a hotel in Eastbourne. On Friday we were asked what slot we would ant for breakfast.

On the second morning I called down to say we were sorry we hadn’t let them know what slot we wanted that morning. Only to be told it’s the same slot every morning and we were 20 mins into our slot.

They said it was clear in the email instructions about our stay. It wasn’t and it wasn’t made clear when we made our first breakfast booking.

I can see nothing on gov.uk about breakfast slots.

I’m fuming and I will not be returning. I was about to ask about staying a third night, not now

It’s utter twaddle. The receptionist on the phone said it was because we had to be in the same breakfast bubble. Where the hell do they make this rubbish up? Do they think I came down in the last shower, it’s just to make their planning easier.

They had two chances to explain the process correctly, once in writing and once and person and they failed.

When I left I show the individual the email I received that she was at pains to mention on our call and it doesn’t describe what she said. She then changed her tune and muttered something about that they could have changed my slot for me.

Therefore confirming it’s a load of rubbish but the damage was already done. We had to jump out of bed and go for breakfast without a shower after a night out.

Not hospitality and only confirms my previous feeling that UK holidays are an exercise in getting in your hosts way.

 

[Jamiescott1]

They shouldn't give it to you at all. It's theatre, nothing more. That disinfectant needs about 10 minutes contact to work, and should be left to evaporate, and not be wiped off. Sanitise your hands afterwards, rather than the trolley and don't touch your face in the mean time.

Yep. Most supermarkets use d10 which has a contact time of 5 minutes

 

[43066]

Before you do, think about the effect this stubborn, picky and petty argumentativeness is having on low-wage staff monitoring these sorts of thing who didn't come up with the rules and have had a bad enough day already so far having been argued with about all sorts of things.

Just use it. If you hate it that much, stay at home and shop wholly online.

I have no objection to hand sanitisers generally (at least they work, unlike masks!) but I can imagine they’re seriously bad for those with eczema, for instance. As grown adults do we really need to be “monitored” by shop staff? Why can’t people just be left to their own devices? These petty intrusions into our daily lives, while minor on their own, combine to create an oppressive, unpleasant atmosphere.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Why can’t people just be left to their own devices?

Observe how many people use sanitiser if it's just placed there with nobody watching it.

Yes, that. That's why.

(Clue: it's not about protecting the individual, it's about protecting others)

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

Observe how many people use sanitiser if it's just placed there with nobody watching it.

Yes, that. That's why.

(Clue: it's not about protecting the individual, it's about protecting others)

To be honest, in current times I'd probably use it if it was offered to me. Once. E.g. if a shop had sanisitier at the entrance, and also dotted around the store, I'd only use it at the entrance. That seems sensible to me.

At Uni there's hand sanitiser at the entrance to the library, and everyone I've seen going in has used it without being directed to.

 

[Efini92]

The one way system at Leeds station. It would be quicker to walk to your destination

 

[jumble]

France. The segregation between male and female bogs seems to only be an advisory too.

Likewise in Geordie Nightclubs

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 18 Oct 2020 ==

Just been told at Starbucks that I now have a 1 hour limit on how long I can sit in their store.

No real reason given - is this government guidelines?

Regardless - I'm fuming, I now can't do my university work. WTH am I supposed to do now????

Last weekend some selfish fool in Bedgelert occupied an outside table for two leaving an almost identical table for one free
This cost the pub a couple of drinks that we would have had.